Merged Psychological conditions are illusory

What makes it an illness? The experience itself?

No the symptoms make it an illness. Show me using real science that not treating the condition has a better prognosis. By what objective measures do your patients do better than patients that get clinical intervention?
 
Jonesboy, I am interested to know about the "workshops" you mention. Who runs them?
 
It should disturb you that even sadness is pathologised, but it doesnt, because of your belief in psychology.

You might want to ask whether you would be disturbed by hours of sobbing, flashbacks, shaking, screaming, experiences of dying and if and why you would try to bring someone out of it.

No, sadness is an emotion and a mood not an illness. Depression is an illness as defined by the number type and duration of symptoms.
 
I don't know what he was diagnosed with but it seems to have reeeeeealy affected him.
 
Could only stomach 3 pages of this thread. It's a huge insult. To all humans.

I'm fiercely protective of those who have served for this reason. I hate war, and don't understand the desire to enlist, but I support veterans (and respect them) because they need our support. It's disgusting to turn our backs on people who have suffered. And thankfully, after years of war, we are now hearing about PTSD.

Mine was earned through an abusive childhood. It is not as recognized by abuse as it is by war, but that doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that people are hearing about what it is, and understanding what it's like. I ally myself with vets because they are hero's and they are the biggest public face of PTSD.

It's a huge insult to people who have suffered to dismiss their suffering. I will say that I used my panic to understand what happened...to roll with it and to use it as a tool to face my past. It helped. It wasn't easy. But that's not the point. The point is that this is a real disorder, and it must be recognized so that people can get help. Whether it's CBT (which I found very useful) or therapy (also useful), there are things that can make life manageable for sufferers. What doesn't help is self righteous wanks denying that what people are feeling is real.

This is a precarious time for our veterans faced with PTSD. They are making great strides in getting this recognized, in getting the help that they need and that most of all they deserve. It is a human kindness to support those who are suffering, to have sympathy, to have empathy. I'm appalled that someone could be so ignorant, so lacking humanity.

I clicked on this thread because I was aghast thinking that the Mythbusters had made an egregious error. What a way to cover all the bases; how many people can you insult in one thread?
 
Could only stomach 3 pages of this thread. It's a huge insult. To all humans.

I'm fiercely protective of those who have served for this reason. I hate war, and don't understand the desire to enlist, but I support veterans (and respect them) because they need our support. It's disgusting to turn our backs on people who have suffered. And thankfully, after years of war, we are now hearing about PTSD.

Mine was earned through an abusive childhood. It is not as recognized by abuse as it is by war, but that doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that people are hearing about what it is, and understanding what it's like. I ally myself with vets because they are hero's and they are the biggest public face of PTSD.

It's a huge insult to people who have suffered to dismiss their suffering. I will say that I used my panic to understand what happened...to roll with it and to use it as a tool to face my past. It helped. It wasn't easy. But that's not the point. The point is that this is a real disorder, and it must be recognized so that people can get help. Whether it's CBT (which I found very useful) or therapy (also useful), there are things that can make life manageable for sufferers. What doesn't help is self righteous wanks denying that what people are feeling is real.

This is a precarious time for our veterans faced with PTSD. They are making great strides in getting this recognized, in getting the help that they need and that most of all they deserve. It is a human kindness to support those who are suffering, to have sympathy, to have empathy. I'm appalled that someone could be so ignorant, so lacking humanity.

I clicked on this thread because I was aghast thinking that the Mythbusters had made an egregious error. What a way to cover all the bases; how many people can you insult in one thread?


Who said we aren't suffering? Choose the right target. There are no possible citcumstances in which I would ever accept a label of sickness, barring threats.
Psychiatry knows less about this than we do. It's simply a pathologisation with bells and whistles.
 
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Snake oil:

Great an experience, but no benefit, just hooey.

http://www.holotropic.com/about.shtml

"The process itself uses very simple means: it combines accelerated breathing with evocative music in a special set and setting. With the eyes closed and lying on a mat, each person uses their own breath and the music in the room to enter a non-ordinary state of consciousness. This state activates the natural inner healing process of the individual's psyche, bringing him or her a particular set of internal experiences. With the inner healing intelligence guiding the process, the quality and content brought forth is unique to each person and for that particular time and place. While recurring themes are common, no two sessions are ever alike."
 
What makes it an illness? The experience itself?

Aftermath of traumatic experience: uncontrolled anger, flashbacks, trouble concentrating/sleeping and so on makes it illness.

Plus person needs medication and talk/cognitive therapy. And it takes time to minimize symptoms.
 
Bear in mind that many out of character murders and suicides are caused by antidepressants. (There was even a BBC Panarama program warning on this, also there are movements in the USA to sue for such events.)

An experience can fix people in a violent framework. Stan Grof describes these and how by allowing their expression in a supportive enviroinment they can be defused in what can be a liberating experience. Unresolved Death/rebirth experiences brought up by severe trauma is one model that may help as explanation.. As early as the 1950's, and later in the 60's before its illegalization, lSD was used in catharsis for war veterans with great success. The model that worked the best was the non-patholkogical model, where experiences were encouraged. It is their suppression that leads to sudden violence.

So if a spouse or child is killed by a traumatized soldier, it is the fault of the spouse or child for not just allowing the soldier to beat them, and not being supportive of the abusive behavior. They would just work it out of their system rather than the violence escalating to murder.

If they had just told them how wonderful it was to be abused and allowed them to express their anger by beating them, and didn't suppress their violent rage, that would fix everything!


Wow. Just, wow. I am starting to agree with others that your goal in this thread is simply to be as offensive as humanly possible.

It's also liberating to divorce oneslef entirely from the pathology model whose teachings and drugs forces onto us a picture of the human psyche as fundamentally flawed.

I suffered from OCD and anorexia for over a decade, though I did not suffer from depression. I went to many therapists and therapies, both traditional and more alternative ones. I was very wary of psychiatric drugs. Finally, while in rehab and at the end of my rope, completely desperate, I agreed to go on Zoloft at a doctor's urging, though I really had no belief that it would do anything. I was just being compliant.

I had always believed that being "cured" from anorexia was impossible, it would never happen. The most I could ever hope to accomplish was to make it manageable. But within months of going on Zoloft, the obsessive thoughts regarding my weight, food, numbers, exercizing, etc simply disappeared. They just went away. Before the year was out, I was completely symptom free. It's now been several years and I've never suffered a relapse. I've never been happier. It's hard for me, looking back now, to even imagine the way I used to be and think.

Zoloft saved me. My psyche was flawed, and Zoloft fixed it. I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but going on Zoloft was the single best decision I ever made and improved my quality of life immeasurably, not to mention the positive impact it had on my family, which had been burdened both emotionally and financially due to my anorexia. I waited so long to go on it in the first place, mostly because I unfortunately bought into woo peddled by people like yourself who told me how awful psychiatric drugs were and that they were just a dangerous sham. My belief in this woo caused me and my family years of unnecessary suffering (not to mention the large amounts of money spent on various other therapies) that could have been avoided simply by swallowing 50mg a day as my doctors had suggested for years. It is the biggest regret of my life.

Listening to people like you was the dumbest and most dangerous decision I ever made in my life, and it shames me to this day what I put my family through for my foolishness.

I can just see your prescription for anorexia treatment. "Oh no, you're right. I completely validate your thoughts. You ARE monstrously fat and disgusting even though you weigh 75 pounds. Exercizing for 6 hours after eating a cashew for lunch is a completely normal thing to do. Your thinking isn't flawed at all! It's just those doctors trying to put you down by telling you that it's not normal or healthy to starve yourself."
 
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Since all the previous threads started revolving aroung similar strange attractors, they've been merged into one meta-thread. Do not start threads about the Myth of PTSD, Autism and Eugenics, or sadness as a scam.
Posted By: kmortis
 
What makes it an illness? The experience itself?
What makes anything an illness? Because humans choose to associate something with the word "illness". But we can drop this terminology, and use the word "problem" instead.

An experience is a problem, if the person suffers from it and wants to avoid it, but cannot. Then we try to find ways to help the suffering person avoid it.
 
As reported below, scientists have found that people with autism are missing a specific cluster of genes:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/science/scientists-find-gene-link-to-autism-20111011-1lj95.html

Oh look - we have a cause for the problem of Autism. I wonder if this finding will permeate the consciousness of the OP.

That was very informative. Thanks.

And I can only hope that it will help to sway the OP in his opinions. Ford knows there are more than enough psychology deniers out there, so one less would not be a luxury.
 
I think I have a fair question for jonesboy:

Do you really think that all psychological conditions are illusory, or just the ones you named?

Because that wasn't ever quite clear to me.

It might help to understand why you hold that opinion.

Thanks in advance.
 

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