Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[bolint]

It didn't. The appeals court's own experts determined that the DNA evidence was contaminated and misinterpreted.

So the current explanation is that the contaminated bra clasp planted by the police does not have Raffaele's DNA?

 

[bolint]

the seasoned and highly esteemed appellate judge found there was no evidence to place Knox and Sollecito at the crime.

Well, I guess that the seasoned apellate judge would not be so highly esteemed (at least here ) if he had ruled the opposite.

 

[Dougm]

So the current explanation is that the contaminated bra clasp planted by the police does not have Raffaele's DNA?

No, it is that it did have Raffaele's DNA, but there are so many possible ways it got there, several more plausible than in the commission of a murder, given the other evidence. The possible avenues for contamination are too likely for it to have any evidentiary value.

BTW -- "the current explanation" by who? The PR supertanker?

 

[Kestrel]

The appeals court's own experts determined that the DNA evidence was contaminated and misinterpreted.

Did the prosecution ever turn over the electronic data files generated when the original tests on the bra clasp and knife blade were run?

 

[Grinder]

I don't think they had the texts.
Only the phone records that two texts were sent.
The phone number was not necessarily registered to Lumumba.

They had the outgoing text - "see you later" but in Italian. She had erased the incoming message about not needing to come to work.

 

[Dougm]

Well, I guess that the seasoned apellate judge would not be so highly esteemed (at least here ) if he had ruled the opposite.

Speaking for myself, that is correct. Because he would have been making a ruling not supported by the evidence, as Massei did. With the evidence presented, another decision requires conjecture using facts not in evidence (like Amanda carrying the knife around in her tote bag, or that the two could have taken stronger drugs and gotten out of control, just two of the things totally made up by Massei).

 

[bolint]

So there he's talking about Halloween? Is that from his 10:40 statement?

Not about Halloween.
It is on Nov 17 in the jail.
So being stoned is not an excuse, either, this time.

 

[bolint]

They had the outgoing text - "see you later" but in Italian. She had erased the incoming message about not needing to come to work.

They had it only from her phone.
So they had not known it before the questioning.

 

[Dougm]

They had the outgoing text - "see you later" but in Italian. She had erased the incoming message about not needing to come to work.

To me, this is one of the mysteries. Did the cops have the phone records and the details of what the text said before, or did they get it from Amanda during the interogation?

I find both options plausible. I agree with those that say that the cops could have gotten the records, and maybe even the actual text content, from the phone companies. I just don't know if they did that or not.

Amanda said that they asked to see her phone, and since the cops were clearly looking for anything they could find to put pressure on her, I don't find it implausible that, finding the text message (in fact, Amanda said she showed it to them to prove she had been told not to go to work), that they would jump all over the "see you later" message, misunderstanding what it meant.

I also think that the idea that the police were following Amanda and saw her meet with Lumumba earlier that day is very plausible.

I also think that none of this matters that much. It is clear to me that Amanda did not commit the murder, and that the cops were doing everything they could that night to get her to say that she was involved somehow. How that happened exactly is not possible to prove.

 

[Kaosium]

I don't think there is a real need or pressure to counter anything right now. If Amanda and her family wants privacy and peace, that's great. Of course there will be a fringe of maniacs and haters, just like those moon hoaxers who pester lunar astronauts and get an occasional response , but such people beyond help are a very small minority.

Shows like yesterdays 48 Hours are going to work very well informing the more moderate general public for now.

Love that clip! I hope he didn't get in trouble, and the little weasel is alright.

I dunno, I think it might have been better to let the people with a tour of the talk shows and solidify the real Amanda in people's minds. I'd like to see her when she's speaking English and not crying.

 

[bolint]

What are you referring to about November 2nd?

That on Nov 2 Raffaele gave the first account how they had passed the murder night.
And he did not mixed it up with Halloween.
So it is unlikely that 3 days later he did.

They'd ask him anyway. They're about to interrogate a girl about a rape-murder, and they know she didn't do the rape part. They have them in separate rooms, they're getting information about one guy from Amanda, they don't even bother to ask Raffaele at all, yet they will later arrest him for murder. There has to be a reason for them not asking Raffaele about the murder, either to get him to confess or to corroborate Amanda's information. They said 'case closed'--they knew something about Patrick. Not interrogating Raffaele about the murder is mindless, it is one of the most suspicious things about the case.

They asked Raffaele, he said that Amanda had gone from his flat for hours while he was constantly staying there.
What could they have got from him about his role in the murder?
He did not know about Patrick (nor about Rudy in my opinion).

 

[Keeper]

Love that clip! I hope he didn't get in trouble, and the little weasel is alright.

He didn't. It got to court where the Judge sensibly ruled that the punch was fair enough.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Well, I guess that the seasoned apellate judge would not be so highly esteemed (at least here ) if he had ruled the opposite.

He would by me. I trusted the good old judge.

 

[Dan O.]

The phone number was not necessarily registered to Lumumba.

In italy? Where you can't even get on the internet without showing ID?! Do you think any Italian is going to get a cell phone from an Italian provider and not have that phone registered to them?

We can be assured that ILE already knew about the text exchange and being in proximity of the time of the murder they would have already researched who was registered to the other end. If it came up in their conversations with Amanda that this phone was not registered to the person that was using it, that would be of hugh interest to the police. Yet we hear nothing of the sort.

 

[bolint]

In italy? Where you can't even get on the internet without showing ID?! Do you think any Italian is going to get a cell phone from an Italian provider and not have that phone registered to them?

We can be assured that ILE already knew about the text exchange and being in proximity of the time of the murder they would have already researched who was registered to the other end. If it came up in their conversations with Amanda that this phone was not registered to the person that was using it, that would be of hugh interest to the police. Yet we hear nothing of the sort.

It is interesting to hear this argument in this case as we know that Filomena gave a phone to Meredith and Laura gave one to Amanda.

 

[Ammonitida]

So the current explanation is that the contaminated bra clasp planted by the police does not have Raffaele's DNA?

It had everyone's DNA. Yours too.

Quoting Vecchiotti;

"After examining just the first 4 markers (over 17) of the Y chromosome, there were already new alleles for forming at least 8 profiles”

"There were so many alleles that even my own profile was a match in 9 markers!”

 

[Dan O.]

They asked Raffaele, he said that Amanda had gone from his flat for hours while he was constantly staying there.

I think you are a damn liar and just making up crap and picking out cherries that suit your position. Why don't you try showing evidence of your assertions? The problem is that you don't have any evidence. Your world is a fantasy of your own making. Nothing you believe is valid because it isn't supported.

 

[bolint]

I think you are a damn liar and just making up crap and picking out cherries that suit your position. Why don't you try showing evidence of your assertions? The problem is that you don't have any evidence. Your world is a fantasy of your own making. Nothing you believe is valid because it isn't supported.

Did not Raffaele say that?
(I agree, that it is uncomfortable )

 

[Whisky1981]

Why is it so hard to believe that a known criminal with a history of break-ins while carrying a knife was surprised while he was burglarizing this apartment while carrying a knife? He was identified by his own bloody fingerprint because his prints were on file, and he was captured while fleeing Italy. Why does the story need to be more complicated than that? The simplest explanation is often the correct one.

This is not hard to belive. And if there were not so many holes in the statements of the two youngsters and if Amanda wouldnt have made up the story of Lumumba (or maybe the police did I dont know) the case would have gone in that way leaveing the youngsters out.

It is hard to believe that police (this is Italy not China) would just let somebody rot in prison with no suspicion at all.

And why did the knife contained Merediths DNA on the blade? That knife may have very well belonged to the kitchen at the murder scene and later taken away by the murder.

How did the bra clasp became contaminated if the murder scene was seald by the police on the 2nd of November and nobody got in the house later. As much as I know DNA can be transfered to the bra clasp if at some point came in contact with Raf cloathing but Raffaele didnt live in the apartment with Meredith and Amanda. So how it became contaminated with Raf DNA?

 

[Matthew Best]

It is hard to believe that people are coming here asking questions that have been answered time and time again over the last few years, but there you are. Strange things happen, I guess.