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How To Use Bitcoin – The Most Important Creation In The History Of Man

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DrDave said:
Can you buy anything with them yet?
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Actually, I've run into lots of websites of various categories: clothes, electronics, computers, electronic cigarettes, etc. for bitcoins. http://www.bitporium.com/ is the only one I remember offhand.
Also, The Silk Road is a .onion site on the tor network that sells illegal drugs, and they only accept bitcoin.

I'm not interested in buying any bitcoin, since cash and debit are quite a bit easier to use, but it's by no means impossible to trade them for goods.
 
I think michael is still watching us. You can see his latest activity date is much more recent than his last post. Hopefully he'll see it when my iCal beeps me to call him on a prediction he made.
 
Almo said:
I think michael is still watching us. You can see his latest activity date is much more recent than his last post. Hopefully he'll see it when my iCal beeps me to call him on a prediction he made.
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It would be interesting to see if he comes back to this thread. Bitcoin just lost another exchange to hacking... or more likely, it was a scam to begin with.

Libertards and Bitcoiners are learning the hard way why the financial sector is so heavily regulated.
 
anduin said:
It would be interesting to see if he comes back to this thread. Bitcoin just lost another exchange to hacking... or more likely, it was a scam to begin with.

Libertards and Bitcoiners are learning the hard way why the financial sector is so heavily regulated.
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Have any of the Bitcoin "farmers" returned? I am intrigued as to whether any of them have managed to turn a profit on this thing yet or share any other stories.

This was interesting to a point:

Ferguson said:
Originally Posted by DrDave
Can you buy anything with them yet?
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Actually, I've run into lots of websites of various categories: clothes, electronics, computers, electronic cigarettes, etc. for bitcoins. http://www.bitporium.com/ is the only one I remember offhand.
Also, The Silk Road is a .onion site on the tor network that sells illegal drugs, and they only accept bitcoin.

I'm not interested in buying any bitcoin, since cash and debit are quite a bit easier to use, but it's by no means impossible to trade them for goods.
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Has anyone here had a "friend" who's used that Silk Road thing? Bought any clothing with their bitcoins?
 
I know a few people who have Bitcoins, but only one of them actually claims to have used them for commerce. When I asked him what kinds of things he's bought with it, all he said was he's used it for "various private transactions," whatever that means.

Gambling? Drugs? Hookers? I wouldn't expect him to be into any real freaky stuff, but you never know.

Then you have people like this guy Bruce Wagner, convicted fraudster in several states, unrepentant "sex tourist," and one of the most vocal Bitcoin proponents on the Web. Because Wagner apparently doesn't know when to keep his big mouth shut, there's an awful lot of very negative information about him out there on the Web.

Bitcoin seems to attract far more than it's fair share of creeps, scammers and thieves (personal friends and present company exempted, of course). Is it wrong to judge an investment opportunity/financial product by the calibre of patrons it attracts?
 
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stilicho said:
In the time since I wrote this, Bitcoins have lost nearly 2/3 of their value.
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Yes, the value of bitcoins is still (and maybe always will be) too volatile to be considered a reliable store of value.

It can still be used as a medium of exchange however. And its value volatility makes it a great commodity for speculators to play around with - especially if you can short them.

Mind you, if the euro crisis doesn't get any better then buying long might be a better option (but don't take advice from me - the last horse I backed hasn't finished running yet).
 
psionl0 said:
Yes, the value of bitcoins is still (and maybe always will be) too volatile to be considered a reliable store of value.

Mind you, if the euro crisis doesn't get any better then buying long might be a better option (but don't take advice from me - the last horse I backed hasn't finished running yet).
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This is an honest question: Aren't these two statements contradictory? How could it be good to go long on something if it's not a reliable store of value?
 
Almo said:
This is an honest question: Aren't these two statements contradictory? How could it be good to go long on something if it's not a reliable store of value?
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It's the same as dealing in stocks. If you think a stock will go up you buy. If you think it will go down you sell. Some stocks are good for a long term investment while others have mainly speculative value. Bitcoin falls into the latter category ATM.
 
psionl0 said:
It's the same as dealing in stocks. If you think a stock will go up you buy. If you think it will go down you sell. Some stocks are good for a long term investment while others have mainly speculative value. Bitcoin falls into the latter category ATM.
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How can something be a good long-term investment if it is not a reliable store of value? Long-term investments require that they are a reliable store of value. Right?!?
 
psionl0 said:
It's the same as dealing in stocks. If you think a stock will go up you buy. If you think it will go down you sell. Some stocks are good for a long term investment while others have mainly speculative value. Bitcoin falls into the latter category ATM.
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Actually, if you think a stock will go down, you still buy, but as a short sell. You 'borrow' the stock today with a promise to the lender to replace it later. Then sell it at today's high price and replace it later by buying it at the (hopefully) lower price, and giving that version of the stock back to the lender, pocketing the difference. So bitcoins appear to have been a good candidate for a short sell, in hindsight.
 
Almo said:
How can something be a good long-term investment if it is not a reliable store of value? Long-term investments require that they are a reliable store of value. Right?!?
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I think you are misunderstanding the concept of buying long. It doesn't mean that you buy it and hold on to it for a long time. It means that you pay for it now and either take delivery later or sell it before you have to take delivery.

You and I could enter short sell/long buy relationship without needing any bitcoins at all. I pay you the what the current market value for X bitcoins is on the understanding that at a specified date in the future, you will pay me what the market value of those X bitcoins is at that time. I am buying long and you are selling short ("naked" short selling in fact). The winner is whoever correctly predicts which way the price moves.

That's speculation.
 
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Ok, I misunderstood what you meant by long. But: isn't the one who goes long saying the value will go above what he paid, and the one who goes short saying it will go down?

It still seems odd to go long on something that is not a reliable store of value.
 
John Albert said:
Bitcoin seems to attract far more than it's fair share of creeps, scammers and thieves (personal friends and present company exempted, of course). Is it wrong to judge an investment opportunity/financial product by the calibre of patrons it attracts?
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Yes. Trust is everything in such an unregulated market, and it is clear that scammers and fraudsters are taking advantage of it.
 
amused said:
Actually, if you think a stock will go down, you still buy, but as a short sell. You 'borrow' the stock today with a promise to the lender to replace it later. Then sell it at today's high price and replace it later by buying it at the (hopefully) lower price, and giving that version of the stock back to the lender, pocketing the difference. So bitcoins appear to have been a good candidate for a short sell, in hindsight.
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But the exchanges are too slow and unreliable for shorting IMO. I thought about it right here when I predicted that BTC's value would plummet. It's just not worth it.
 
John Albert said:
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Bitcoin seems to attract far more than it's fair share of creeps, scammers and thieves (personal friends and present company exempted, of course). Is it wrong to judge an investment opportunity/financial product by the calibre of patrons it attracts?
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Any word on how the BTC "farmers" are doing? It always appeared to me to be a project offering practically a textbook example of diminishing return but I wonder who was doing it and gave up, persevered, or does that full-time instead of working.

It does sounds like a great way to buy and sell illegal stuff as long as it's under the radar and nobody cares about the currency exchange at the end of the supply chain.
 
I had been occasionally watching this thread and was reminded of it when I chanced upon this article:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/18/bottom-drops-out-of-bitcoin

Clearly, the bubble has burst. Are any bitcoin supporters still around? What's their take regarding what's been going on?

ETA:Another article: Bitcoin value crashes below cost of production as broader use stutters

From the first article:

Others in the same thread echoed the poster's concerns. "I think we'll be lucky if it stays above USD parity in the short term, because the actual market activity for it is so tiny," said one. "At the moment there is no need to use bitcoin, as anything that can be bought for BTC can be bought for 'real money' elsewhere," added another.
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[Highlight added]

Well, duh! :D
 
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The investment craze has subsided, fortunately. As I stated originally, what's important is that Bitcoins maintain SOME consistent value, even if it's one penny. Then they can serve their purpose.
 
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