Merged Steve Jobs has died.

the iSight webcam

Well, I've never heard of that! :)

iSight wiki

According to the wiki it didn't bomb, though it did evolve from being external into just being included in all of the devices.

Meanwhile, Apple began using the term to refer to the camera built into Apple's iMac, MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro computers, and Cinema Display. In November 2010, Apple began transitioning to calling them "FaceTime cameras".

As far as I can tell from an online search, the iSight had decent sales numbers until it was integrated into the products directly

I demand another example.
 
It always amuses me how Windows and Mac factionalists can have these arguments over products. It seems to me quite limited.

My computing experience started long before either, first by putting together logic circuits using neon bulbs (as I was later to find out, like Eckert), then the Motorola HEP series (I got some free parts from Motorola for by 7th grade science fair project), then the 7400 series. My first computer was a COSMAC Elf I built from parts on a vector board, then later a TRS-80, which I overclocked and made to display lower-case.

I have worked with and owned PCs and Macs since they started. I still own and work with both.

I say that neither the PC nor the Mac nor the entire scape of computing would be anything like it is today without Steve Jobs. It wouldn't be the same without Bill Gates or Steve Balmer, or Alan Kay or PARC or Woz or Bill Atkinson or a whole host of other people, back to Alan Turing.
 
I must just be really good then. I have been running Windows since version 2. I skipped the Win9X generation in favor of the NT branch, so maybe that explains my lack of complaints. I have built and supported hundreds of Windows workstations in the past decades and just didn't have that many problems.

Look this is really the wrong thread for this discussion, so I'm going to stop now. I really don't care what kind of computer or OS you (general you) use.


I've been using Windows, MacOS and Linux for many years, and have had similar experiences. The differences were always negligible to me, in terms of overall usability.

From Mac OS System 7 up through the first couple versions of OSX in the early-2000s, Macs were every bit as crashy, hangy and temperamental as Windows-based PCs. Apple was just better at marketing their product as the more user-friendly alternative, and portraying Windows as a clunky, faulty system.

While it's true that Apple took measures to make Macs easier to use, their main drawbacks manifested in terms of flexibility, and their lack of multitasking was a major hindrance. Macs may have had a simpler and more elegant UI, but good luck getting those things to play nice on a non-Mac network.

On the other hand, Windows was more universal and flexible, but its UI was a bit of a trainwreck. Microsoft would add all kinds of new features with each release, but bury them deep within layers and layers of menus and dialog boxes.

Linux was always far more stable, and the variety of UIs was nice, but everything looked and felt at least 5 years out-of-date, the OS was a pain in the ass to install and configure, and its hardware support was unpredictable at best. I remember installing Linux on a laptop in like 2000 and having to go out and buy a PCMCIA modem because the internal one was a "Winmodem" that Linux couldn't support. Soon afterward, I got cable Internet and ditched modems altogether.

By the time the mid-aughts rolled around, all 3 major OSs were running on the same Intel x86 platform and had attained passable stability. The Mac had finally achieved true multitasking ability, and has the added advantage of a UNIX-based microkernel. Windows XP struck a nice balance between usability, adaptability and power. Linux came into its own as a worthy competitor in the general-use desktop market.

Nowadays, the usability differences between Mac and Windows are pretty small. Microsoft's obsession with excessive features and functionality appears to be a boat anchor around their neck, though. I've had to repair lots of systems where a security update or Service Pack borked certain apps, or even the whole OS. Macintosh, on the other hand, has top-notch hardware and a less bloated UI, but the sale price is at least 170%-200% of the average cost of the same machine from another manufacturer (unless you're talking Sony VAIO or something). It's kind of ridiculous.

These days I have all 3 OSs, mostly for compatibility assurance purposes. I do most of my day-to-day stuff in Linux, occasionally use Mac for some graphics work and use Windows mostly just for playing computer games.
 
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I agree we should not get into the same old Mac versus PC battle in this thread.

In terms of Steve Jobs:

What Jobs did was take technology that was already out there, and made it intuitive, easy to use, and popular. Personal computers, GUIs, mp3 players, tablets, music and video distribution, tech stores, computer animation, smart phones... Jobs took quirky technology that only geeks loved and made it into wildly successful, desired products. Look how much other companies have followed Apples lead in each of these areas.

What did Jobs contribute? Well, he was the head of the team that brought it all together, time after time after time. Do you think that's something anyone but a truly rare and talented person could do? In fact, a scientific experiment was performed. When Jobs was first head of Apple, Apple became a very innovative and successful company . When Jobs was forced out, Apple became boring and began a downhill slide. When Jobs was brought back, Apple became very creative and successful again. Chance? Give me a break!

Yes- the comparison to Edison is very appropriate. Edison did not invent the light bulb: he invented the first practical light bulb. Both Jobs and Edison were the leaders of teams of very talented people- highly skilled leaders who were able to get the best out of the people under them. Easy to work for? No. But they both changed the world through their drive and understanding of how technology fits into the real world.
 
I can only sit back in amazement, thinking about the wonderful hand Jobs had in stimulating the growth of a new paradigm, and what a tremendous blow Jobs dealt to the status quo.

......and in the pacific rim Jobs is the stuff of legend.
 
Never mind the cult of personality - I'm into the cult of easy, the cult of plug-n-play. Apple products pretty much taught me how to use them. My first computer was a Mac because it was compatible with everything at work. Everything worked great.

In a way it's a handicap because now nothing on a PC seems intuitive to me, and PCs are more common in my new field and in the world at large.

PCs make me feel dumb. Macs made me feel smart. In a way that feeling is the product. And my reverence doesn't have anything to do with Jobs, I just like feeling smart.

I'm exactly the other way round. PCs seem intuitive to me and macs seem weird. It's not a question of one being easier but a question of one being the one you grew up with.
 
Corrupts itself? Why oh why do my PCs never corrupt themselves?

I was just going to say the same thing. I'm forever fixing my friends' PCs but the 4 in my house haven't given me a days trouble (and I've had my XP one for many years now - and it gets used extensively everyday, and I frequently install new software on it).
 
If Steve Jobs' abilities and contributions were so little as some people say they were, why do so many investors and business analysts fear that Apple cannot maintain its current success after he's gone?

Sent from my iPad via Tapatalk.

I can only speak for myself but I'm not arguing that his contributions were 'so little' just that he seems to be getting all the credit when most people like Apple stuff for the design and it was Johnathan Ive that designed all their flagship products.

I'm happy with the analogy of George Martin and the Beatles - George should indeed get some of the credit but in no way should he dominate the credit.

I guess us non 'fanboys' can't understand the fuss or sadness around the CEO of a tech company dying (at least not over and above the sadness about anyone dying relatively young). Apple may well suffer from this but it won't be because their products are any worse but because Jobs did such a good job (very ably abetted by the media* who show appalling favouritism for Apple products) of promoting the hysteria around them (way beyond their actual worth IMHO) and they'll miss that.

Plus the media work on what makes a good story and it'll suit them to show that Apple suffer from his loss (build them up and tear them down) and that'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As an aside, I presume the last line of your post gets added automatically. Doesn't that annoy you? It would drive me mad and I'd have to adjust the app not to do it...then again, if it's on your ipad it's probably all locked down and you can't adjust it ;).

*As an example the Gadget show reviewed the iphone** one year against a couple of its competitors and the iphone came second or last in every test (camera quality and usability, sound quality, ease of use in making phone calls etc). Even their guest testers who were all Apple fans and users were surprised how much better the non-Apple stuff was when they actually examined the spec, price and actual performance of the main features. The programmes conclusion? Buy the iphone, it's clearly the best, look how lovely it is.:rolleyes:

**I think it was the iphone, it may have been the touch - 'twas a couple of years ago so my memory may be faulty. They always blooming rave about Apple stuff (no matter what the results) anyway and, quelle surprise, that's what they use day to day.
 
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I've been using Windows, MacOS and Linux for many years, and have had similar experiences. The differences were always negligible to me, in terms of overall usability.

From Mac OS System 7 up through the first couple versions of OSX in the early-2000s, Macs were every bit as crashy, hangy and temperamental as Windows-based PCs. Apple was just better at marketing their product as the more user-friendly alternative, and portraying Windows as a clunky, faulty system.

While it's true that Apple took measures to make Macs easier to use, their main drawbacks manifested in terms of flexibility, and their lack of multitasking was a major hindrance. Macs may have had a simpler and more elegant UI, but good luck getting those things to play nice on a non-Mac network.

On the other hand, Windows was more universal and flexible, but its UI was a bit of a trainwreck. Microsoft would add all kinds of new features with each release, but bury them deep within layers and layers of menus and dialog boxes.

Linux was always far more stable, and the variety of UIs was nice, but everything looked and felt at least 5 years out-of-date, the OS was a pain in the ass to install and configure, and its hardware support was unpredictable at best. I remember installing Linux on a laptop in like 2000 and having to go out and buy a PCMCIA modem because the internal one was a "Winmodem" that Linux couldn't support. Soon afterward, I got cable Internet and ditched modems altogether.

By the time the mid-aughts rolled around, all 3 major OSs were running on the same Intel x86 platform and had attained passable stability. The Mac had finally achieved true multitasking ability, and has the added advantage of a UNIX-based microkernel. Windows XP struck a nice balance between usability, adaptability and power. Linux came into its own as a worthy competitor in the general-use desktop market.

Nowadays, the usability differences between Mac and Windows are pretty small. Microsoft's obsession with excessive features and functionality appears to be a boat anchor around their neck, though. I've had to repair lots of systems where a security update or Service Pack borked certain apps, or even the whole OS. Macintosh, on the other hand, has top-notch hardware and a less bloated UI, but the sale price is at least 170%-200% of the average cost of the same machine from another manufacturer (unless you're talking Sony VAIO or something). It's kind of ridiculous.

These days I have all 3 OSs, mostly for compatibility assurance purposes. I do most of my day-to-day stuff in Linux, occasionally use Mac for some graphics work and use Windows mostly just for playing computer games.

What a truly excellent post.

Agree with every word (apart from installing Linux - I never had any problems with that). Oh and I'd add that Microsoft really screwed up with Vista but then they ditched it pretty quickly and I've managed to avoid it in my professional capacity (I've worked in IT for over 20 years) pretty much completely.
 
I'm exactly the other way round. PCs seem intuitive to me and macs seem weird. It's not a question of one being easier but a question of one being the one you grew up with.

"intuitive interface"="whatever you're used to"

Adobe Photoshop drives me nuts. Unusable. I love Corel Draw.

Guess which one I started with oh so many years ago?

What Jobs was good at was reading what the market was ready for, and then supplying it at the right time, both culturally and technologically.

There'd been plenty of attempts at tablets years prior to iPad, but they weren't really worth the money until wifi and 3G - along with the internet -was ubiquitous. Then they became useful. Everyone else, who'd failed with tablets some years before, failed to realise their time had come, dismissing them as "been there done that, didn't work". Jobs and Apple got the timing right.

Same could be said of the iPhone or the iPod. Nice products, nice design, nice technology - but it was really the timing that mattered the most.

But they didn't always get it right. Apple could have dominated the home computer market, but they screwed up, and not just with their pricing. Many, many people, like myself, had Apple IIs and loved them. We were the early adopters, and they were better and prettier than things like the TRS-80.

And then PCs started coming out, and Macs .... and we apple owners (usually young) would go visit friends with their shiny new PCs ... and colour screens. Everything looked better, particularly those well known then drivers of the computer market - games.

Mac only had colour as an option - and an exorbitantly expensive one. When it was time for my Apple to be retired, I bought a PC.

It was years before Apple joined the colour screen revolution, and I believe to this day it's the biggest reason why they didn't dominate the home computer market.

They misread the market and got the timing wrong. It didn't happen too many times with Jobs 2.0.
 
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I'm exactly the other way round. PCs seem intuitive to me and macs seem weird. It's not a question of one being easier but a question of one being the one you grew up with.

Yeah, I'm sure that's true - and it's probably also true that many of the features I like are integrated as well into the PC interface. Coming from a background of no code Macs kinda dumbed it down for me ;) and yes I'm emotionally attached to the critters.

On cost effectiveness, my laptops took enormous beatings and still lived long and full lives. I did know someone who got a "bad motherboard" from Malaysia I think - it's the only MacLemon I ever heard of.
 
Bah even this internecine bickering is nothing new. It was VI vs EMACs long before Jobs put a new polish on it.
 
Bah even this internecine bickering is nothing new. It was VI vs EMACs long before Jobs put a new polish on it.

I'm sure that the day after the second computer was built, we got the first argument between Atanasoff–Berry fanboys and stibitz model k fanboys
 
I say that neither the PC nor the Mac nor the entire scape of computing would be anything like it is today without Steve Jobs. It wouldn't be the same without Bill Gates or Steve Balmer, or Alan Kay or PARC or Woz or Bill Atkinson or a whole host of other people, back to Alan Turing.

Babbage?

And what about the abacus?

Actually, it seems to me that they all stood on the shoulders of the ones before, but Jobs did make a major step forward.

I haven't read the whole thread and someone may have mentioned them before, but didn't the Apple 3 and Lisa bomb? The Lisa, of course, re-appeared in simplified form as the Mac - so was it really a step too far at the time? The Lisa was in hindsight, of course, way behind current technology and sofdtware.
 
Babbage?

And what about the abacus?

Babbage, certainly. But this one is a pet peeve of mine: an abacus is *not* a computer. It's a memory device, a register to hold a number (or numbers), like pencil and paper. It doesn't *by itself* carry out a sequence of instructions. The person using it would be called the computer, as they were before around 1945.
 

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