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Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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Loose stool, is in the mission report

If it was omitted then how did you learn about it?

Oh, yeah. It's been mentioned in a thousand other places including NASA's very own FLIGHT JOURNAL!!!

"Loose stool", is in the Apollo 8 mission report itself with reference to Borman's condition/illness.

Borman wrote about the diarrhea himself. That section of his book was quoted/referenced in an earlier post of mine.

Andrew Chaikin, A MAN ON THE MOON, page 97, "What a mess- Lovell and Anders had to help chase down stray bits of vomit AND FECES with paper towels."

You can find this Apollo 8 Borman diarrhea in cislunar space stuff, pretty much EVERYWHERE. Read around dude! Have FUN!

Caps mine in the Chaikin book quote above.
 
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"Loose stool", is in the Apollo 8 mission report itself. Borman wrote about the diarrhea himself. That section of his book was quoted/referenced in an earlier post of mine.

This thread is really all about poo, isn't it?
 
hey abadddon, quit stealin' my lines!

Yes. we all realise you are pretending.



Did any of the astronauts have such? Were they not in isolation prior to their missions?



Oh, if you ran the zoo. How did London survive it's various plagues then?



Strange that he has not posted in support of you, is it not?



Yup, 7 question marks and 5 exclamation marks really, really add weight to your argument.

Diagnosis; You have no clue

Treatment; None, Terminal case

Hey abadddon, quit stealin' my lines!!!!

Now I know you guys are desperate, stealing my humor? My jokes? I ain't that funny. Still the diagnosis/treatment stuff is my material, hands off dude!

You still don't get the Borman diarrhea point. ONCE THIS HAPPENED, YOU WOULD FIX THE SANITATION PROBLEM. The fact Borman had diarrhea in outter space is acceptable, the fact that he returned and everybody ignored it is not.

That means the Apollo Missions are fake dude.

Give it up.
 
You cannot provide proof that you are a college educated person, let alone a doctor, so therefore your qualifications to judge medical procedures are in doubt & and you are fake...wow, that was easy. Show us some evidence other than handwaving & posting like a teenage kid Patrick...
 
"Loose stool", is in the Apollo 8 mission report itself with reference to Borman's condition/illness.



From the Apollo Flight Journal:
http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/06day2_green.htm

Note the .gov domain.

Public Affairs Officer - "This is Apollo Control, Houston. 29 hours, 47 minutes. I would like to amplify a bit more on [the] recent taped conversation. Mike Collins opens it and this was a private conversation conducted from the communication room in this building, building 30. Collins asked the crew for additional detail on their condition and Frank Borman comes on the line and he describes his problems and he also says he has had several hours of rest this morning and is feeling much, much better. Jim Lovell, in the conversation, also reveals, for the first time, that he apparently wasn't feeling too well when they first went into orbit yesterday, and this was the first we had learned of that. He, of course, said that this was a momentary thing and he describes it in very finite terms. Let's see, that covers everybody but Bill Anders and he reports just generally feeling better and apparently a case of the butterfly stomach or some such this morning. Borman elaborates a bit and says he thinks he had a 24-hour virus. He says he noted some diarrhea, an upset stomach, and he describes some vomiting. Our head physician, Dr. Berry, gets on the line with Borman and presses him for additional detail, which is forthcoming but, in the end, Berry feels that the situation is considerably better than when we first learned of it, perhaps an hour or more ago, Within perhaps 5 or 10 minutes we should have the tape, which is now en route to our news center in building 1, on the line for you to play, ... Other than that, we are right on the Flight Plan and we are still scheduled for a television pass, beginning at 2:06 Houston time. ..."

You can find this Apollo 8 Borman diarrhea in cislunar space stuff, pretty much EVERYWHERE. Read around dude! Have FUN!

So why do you stick to your claim that Berry's omission of diarrhea in a journal somehow proves Berry is a fraud?
 
P1K thinks they could fix the "sanitation problem" even though the spacecraft was just a little bit away from home.

He asked at one point why Borman hadn't investigated the stool for evidence of salmonella. So I asked for his professional medical opinion on a method for an astronaut to investigate poop looking for microbes while flying to the moon. His response, and I quote:

.
.
.
.

 
That means the Apollo Missions are fake dude.

Give it up.

You really expect anyone here to "give up reality" simply on your (proven ignorant) "say so"?

Why do you continue to believe that posters, here, are as stupid as you are?
 
You still don't get the Borman diarrhea point.

Oh, we understand completely. You're may not be 12 years old, but you certainly behave as if you were, and you enjoy "poopy jokes" much more than any self respecting MD actually would.

You're not fooling anyone but yourself..."sad" isn't even the word for it. That you would desire attention...any attention, no matter how stupid it makes you look, "paints" you as a lonely, emotionally immature, person.
 

Now I know you guys are desperate...

Who's desperate?

You pretty much lost the map debate because you finally saw your error -- the one everyone's been telling you about.

You tried the rocket science thing again, but you know that it's my profession and I'll call you on your hogwash every time. Remember, you got so flustered at Apollohoax that you had to back away entirely from the hoax claim and try to make a "real missions, but historical shenanigans" claim.

Now you're back to the same claims you made at BAUT. You just keep cycling through the same hogwash, all the while pretending you're some incredibly gifted scholar. It's pretty fun to keep pushing you off the stool, only to see you climb right back on.

Which previously-debunked argument will it be next? Von Braun the Evil Nazi?
 
Dude, we are not talking about those maps. What's with this, another non sequitur? The LAM 2 Apollo flown map is at issue, not these other maps. Don't post this other jive, you are wasitng everybody's time.



It is not a non sequitur; it is completely germaine to your claim that since 2 lunar maps' grids are different then one map is a fake. Your continued failure to comprehend datums is this month's running joke.
 
We have no use for the uninterested here.

Name one person posting here that agrees with you...go on, I dare you to name just one person.

What's the matter...intellectual cowardice again?

I know you do it well, but don't you get tired of playing the fool?
 
Fecal material floating in a zero-g cabin, AND INGORED AS SUCH, EQUATES WITH FRAUD

From the Apollo Flight Journal:
http://history.nasa.gov/ap08fj/06day2_green.htm

Note the .gov domain.





So why do you stick to your claim that Berry's omission of diarrhea in a journal somehow proves Berry is a fraud?

It's not a journal Matt, it was THE aerospace medicine standard textbook of the time. Berry is writing THE comprehensive chapter on medical concerns with respect to US space missions already flown, or pretended to have been be flown. It is a very important piece of writing. Important to be clear, comprehensive, TRUTHFUL, and so forth.

If Borman really had had diarrhea that floated about the cabin as claimed initially, everyone could have become very very very very sick, and very very very fast. If Borman had "told the truth" and repeated in his text book chapter what he told the New York Times people(see below for New York Times quotes), then were I say Harrison Schmitt's doc, if I read in the 1971 edition of the aerospace text that diarrhea was and will be floating about in the zero-g cabin of Apollo 17, then Schmitt doesn't go, not unless they fix the can.

From the New York Times, correspondent Richard Lyons, December 22 1968;

"Frank Borman, the commander of Apollo 8 reported today that he had developed intestinal flu. He told ground controllers at the Manned Space Flight Center that he vomited twice, experienced diarrhea and was nauseated....

Dr. Charles A. Berry, the chief flight surgeon for the lunar mission commented that the flight might have to be curtailed if commander Lovell and Major Anders became more violently ill at the critical time when the three man capsule is due to go into lunar orbit Tuesday morning....

He described Borman's Colonel Borman's illness as "a 24 hour gastroenteritis". "

Berry doesn't know this. He can't diagnose an astronaut in cislunar space as having viral gastroenteritis. Berry has no idea what this guy has.

More bogus jive;

" Dr. Berry emphasized that Colonel Borman did not have the so called Hong Kong flu. The astronauts were immunized against this variety more than a month ago with one of the first batches of vaccine to become available."

Not Berry, nor any other physician could make such a nonsensical determination, say that since Borman received an influenza vaccine, he would by virtue of that vaccination, be immune. Vaccines then and now were not/are not anywhere near 100% efficacious. The influenza vaccine has a limited range of coverage as well. It only provides for the possibility of immunity against a few selected(the most common) viruses which are/were circulating at any given time. If someone presents to an emergency room with an influenza consistent syndrome, the evaluating physician is not going to cross influenza off his/her list of diagnostic possibilities based on the sick individual's having been vaccinated. The patient will be tested, and a diagnosis of influenza will be entertained irrespective of the patient having been vaccinated or not.

More nonsense;

"Dr. Berry said he believed that it was "extremely probable" that Captain Lovell and Major Anders would also develop the intestinal upset through the "ping-pong" effect. "In fact, I would be surprised if they didn't", he said in an interview."

Oh, is that so Chuck? Wonder why you didn't write that in you text book chapter on the subject, write the part about how you thought with the diarrhea and vomitus floating about everywhere that Lovell and Anders were sure to get sick? I guess that had to do with the fact that at first, everybody thought this bit about Borman being sick would make everything more "realistic". I mean, if the guy has diarrhea in outer space and the docs are wringing their hands over it, it can't be fake now can it? Serious serious serious stuff. Then it started to dawn on you Chuckles and the other yo-yos that concocted this dumb dumb dumb feature of the script, that if real docs read this nonsense, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF GENUINE MEDICAL WRITING like a journal article or text book, they would say, "Hey wait a minute Chuckie!
This is dangerous flying these guys around like this. If you were so worried about this crew of thespians, why didn't you fix the can for Apollo 9, 10, 11, 12?" So we find the simply not not not credible diarrhea story early on, in more or less real-time, a' la this New York Times article actually written while the phonies were supposed to be in space. Then after the simulated splashdown and a moment's reflection, Berry and crew decide, "Whoops! We botched that one. A real doc is gonna' know this is fake if he/she pauses to critically think about the phony story we made up about Borman. Let's clean up the cabin, sanitize it by pretending the diarrhea thing didn't happen." They write "loose stool" in the Apollo 8 Mission Report, because they have to say something. After all, they already admitted the diarrhea, but it won't hurt that much in the Apollo 8 Mission Report, not a lot of vulnerability there because physicians are not reading that. But the aerospace text, now THAT! would be a different story.

Another Berry quote from the 22 December 1968 Times article;

"We would not want this to happen in lunar orbit".

Why is it any more tolerable in cislunar space Chuck? Boy,
I sure want you for my doc! Can you hook me up so that I can breath some aerosolized poop too?!

So the point Matt is that were this real, a huge problem would have been immediately recognize and subsequently rectified in a timely fashion. That is, they would have figured out a way for this not to happen on Apollo flights 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,15,16,17, figured out a way to eliminate the potential for aerosolization of poop. I realize that it is only the air these guys breath, but you get the point.

Not only do they not fix it and have the Three Blind Mice(Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins) poop in bags too, but when Berry writes about it in the definitive aerospace textbook of the time(1971 publication quoted above), the quack conveniently forgets what he told the New York Times, what they pretended was going on with Borman to begin with.

It's bogus Matt, and bogus big big big time.
 
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It's not a journal Matt, it was THE aerospace medicine standard textbook of the time. Berry is writing THE comprehensive chapter on medical concerns with respect to US space missions already flown, or pretended to have been be flown. It is a very important piece of writing. Important to be clear, comprehensive, TRUTHFUL and so forth.

If Borman really had had diarrhea that floated about the cabin as claimed initially, everyone could have become very very very very sick, and very very very fast. If Borman had "told the truth" and repeated in his text book chapter what he told the New York Times people(see below for New York Times quotes), then were I say Harrison Schmitt's doc, if I read in the 1971 edition of the aerospace text that diarrhea was and will be floating about in the zero-g cabin of Apollo 17, then Schmidt doesn't go, not unless they fix the can.

From the New York Times, correspondent Richard Lyons, December 22 1968;

"Frank Borman, the commander of Apollo 8 reported today that he had developed intestinal flu. He told ground controllers at the Manned Space Flight Center that he vomited twice, experienced diarrhea and was nauseated....

Dr. Charles A. Berry, the chief flight surgeon for the lunar mission commented that the flight might have to be curtailed if commander Lovell and Major Anders became more violently ill at the critical time when the three man capsule is due to go into lunar orbit Tuesday morning....

He described Borman's Colonel Borman's illness as "a 24 hour gastroenteritis".

Berry doesn't know this. He can't diagnose an astronaut in cislunar space as having viral gastroenteritis. Berry has no idea what this guy has.

More bogus jive;

" Dr. Berry emphasized that Colonel Borman did not have the so called Hong Kong flu. The astronauts were immunized against this variety more than a month ago with one of the first batches of vaccine to become available."

Not Berry, nor any other physician could make such a nonsensical determination, say that since Borman received an influenza vaccine, he would by virtue of that vaccination, be immune. Vaccines then and now were not/are not anywhere near 100% efficacious. The influenza vaccine has a limited range of coverage as well. It only provides for the possibility of immunity against a few selected(the most common) viruses which are/were circulating at any given time. If someone presents to an emergency room with an influenza consistent syndrome, the evaluating physician is not going to cross influenza off his/her list of diagnostic possibilities based on the sick individual's having been vaccinated. The patient will be tested, and a diagnosis of influenza will be entertained irrespective of the patient having been vaccinated or not.

More nonsense;

"Dr. Berry said he believed that it was "extremely probable" that Captain Lovell and Major Anders would also develop the intestinal upset through the "ping-pong" effect. "In fact, I would be surprised if they didn't", he said in an interview.

Oh, is that so Chuck? Wonder why you didn't write that in you text book chapter on the subject, write the part about how you thought with the diarrhea and vomitus floating about everywhere that Lovell and Anders were sure to get sick. I guess that had to do with the fact that at first, everybody thought this bit about Borman being sick would make everything more "realistic". I mean, if the guy has diarrhea in outer space and the docs are wringing their hands over it, it can't be fake now can it" Serious serious serious stuff. Then it started to dawn on you Chuckles and the other yo-yos that concocted this dumb dumb dumb feature of the script, that if real docs read this nonsense, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF GENUINE MEDICAL WRITING like a journal article or text book, they would say, "Hey wait a minute Chuckie! this is dangerous flying these guys around like this. If you were so worried about this crew of thespians, why didn't you fix the can for Apollo 9, 10, 11, 12? So we find the simply not not not credible diarrhea story early on, more or less real-time. A' la this New York Times article while the phonies are in space. Then after the simulated splashdown and a moment's reflection, Berry and crew decide, "Whoops! We botched that one". Let's pretend it didn't happen.

Another Berry quote;

"We would not want this to happen in lunar orbit".

Why is it any more tolerable in cislunar space Chuck? Boy, i sure want you for my doc! Can you hook me up so i can breath some poop too?!

So the point Matt is that were this real, a huge problem would have been recognize and rectified. Not only do they not fix it and have the Three Blind Mice poop in bags too, but when Berry writes about it in the definitive aerospace textbook of the time(1971 publication quoted above), the quack conveniently forgets what he told the New York Times.

It's bogus Matt, and bogus big big big time.

Nope still wrong. Although I find it funny that my bout of vomiting & diarrhea yesterday should have caused my wife and I to turn around & forget about visiting her friend in WV. Especially since said friend is a Dr & her only concern was my staying hydrated.
 
Why place a transmitter on the moon?

Well it would be jam proof for one thing. At least according to the Navy guys that ran the passive moon relay operation. Check this out, from the New York Times, April 1 1959, journalist John W. Finney, article title;

MOON RELAY PLANNED BY NAVY

JAMPROOF U.S.-HAWAII NET TO HAVE HIGH CAPACITY-ORBIT IS A LIMITATION

"From the military standpoint another important advantage is that the system would be virtually invulnerable to jamming. To jam the moon circuit, an enemy would have to have a jamming station within a few miles of the receiving or transmission stations or bounce signals of the same frequency off the moon. If the latter technique were used, the moon system could retaliate by changing frequencies every few seconds."

And here we thought they flew an unmanned craft all that way and spent so much of our parents' money to park just an LRRR up there. Looks like if you can transmit from the moon, then no one can jam you. Now THAT! is a military transmitter worth spending $130,000,000,000 for.
 
{snip}
Have you ever inhaled E. Coli, Shigella, Salmonella, Camplobacter, anaerobic intestinal flora? I have not. And were I Frank Borman's doctor, Neil Armstrong's doctor, or the physician of any astronaut, I wouldn't put up with this stuff. I would be responsible for them. If they were in my charge, they don't inhale feces. They don't swallow it. Not while they are doing something as important as traveling to the moon.

{snip}

It's too late, Apollo is busted.

Pretty much everybody alive has inhaled some of that at some point or another - change a diaper of a baby with a stomach upset and there you go. Those are not uncommon bacterium.

As has been pointed out to you earlier, this is probably the most heavily documented accomplishment in history and all done in as close to real time as was possible.

Oh, and can I have an answer to my earlier questions:

What military payload was left?

What purpose does a conspiracy serve? Particularly when you have people involved who stand to gain by exposing it?
 
Bird Hiding Nonsense Everywhere One Looks Proves Apollo FRAUD!

THIS IS TOO FUNNY

From the Associated Press, Friday, July 25 1969. Article Title;

"WHERE OH WHERE DID THEY LAND!

HOUSTON (AP)- If someday you would like to go see Apollo 11's landing site, don't ask NASA for directions. They're not sure where the Eagle landed.

But scientists hope that film brought back by the Apollo 11 crew will solve the mystery of the precise landing site."

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! What a funny and dummy dummy dummy thing to say! Why don't they just look on the Apollo 11 Flown Map of Cislunar NitWit, quarter brained Michael Collins? That map has a BLUE DOT RIGHT EXACTLY AT K .2 AND 5.6. THAT'S EXACTLY 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00 east. Who needs to keep looking when the blue dot already marks the spot?

HEY!!!!!! This here article is from July 25th!!!!! The scientists at Lick Observatory have been shooting a ruby red laser beam at 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east for 4 days now. Why doesn't NASA just ask the Lick Observatory staff where the Eagle parked its simulated fanny? The Lick Observatory guys know already. Why don't the NASA yo-yos know anything about their own space ship?
 
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Oh, and can I have an answer to my earlier questions:

What military payload was left?

What purpose does a conspiracy serve? Particularly when you have people involved who stand to gain by exposing it?
 
Better Than Coffee, An AM ICBM Scare, That'll Get Your Heart Pumping In The Morning

THIS MORE THAN SUBSTANTIATES MY CLAIM ABOUT THE MOON'S MILITARY USEFULNESS. EVEN BEFORE INSTRUMENTED, THE BALLISTIC MISSILE EARLY WARNING BOYS AT THULE, GREENLAND, WERE INTENTIONALLY BOUNCING SIGNALS OFF THE MOON.

Associated Press, WASHINGTON, Dec. 7, 1960;

" MOON STIRS SCARE OF MISSILE ATTACK

Radar reflections from the moon set off a missile scare at the nation's air defense centers on Oct. 5. The Air Force said today, however, that its equipment had been adjusted to avert more such flurries….

The incident, unreported until today, occurred when computers at the Ballistic Missile Early Warning Station at Thule, Greenland, picked up radar signals it had bounced off the moon, 250,000 miles away.

This set into motion the machinery designed to warn of a missile attack. The signal was flashed to the Strategic Air Command's control center and at headquarters of the North American Air Defense Command in Colorado….

General Kuter ordered the data to be disregarded and he telephoned Thule. He was told the apparatus there had not been operating properly."

So what can we surmise from this? Well indeed, it is borderline sensational. THE MOON WAS USED PASSIVELY AS EARLY AS 1960 AS PART OF OUR EARLY WARNING SYSTEM TO DETECT A SOVIET BALLISTIC MISSILE/ICBM ATTACK.

SO IF OF USE PASSIVELY, IMAGINE!!!!! ALL THE THINGS WE COULD DO WERE THE COLD DARK ROCK INSTRUMENTED. AND HERE WE THOUGHT JOHN KENNEDY GAVE THAT SPEECH TO GET US FIRED UP TO SEND THREE BLIND MICE IN A TIN CAN UP THERE TO PLANT A FLAG.

SILY SILLY SILLY SILLY US.
 
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I just read that article, it does not say what you are claiming...nowhere in the article does it claim that the moon was part of the EWS, only that a returning signal that was reflected from the moon during a radar sweep was misinterpreted as an incoming ICBM attack. Add reading comprehension to your list of failures, Patrick. along with a failure to understand cold war era ABM systems...
 
Moon Used to Detect Soviet ICBM Launches As Early As 1958

KENNEDY WAS PRETTY CONVINCING IN THAT SPEECH WASN'T HE? GUESS REAGAN GAVE HIM SOME ACTING LESSONS. STILL THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED THE ASTRONAUTS IN THOSE IMPROV. CLASSES

Associated Press, August 30, 1958;

" U.S. REPORTED DEVELOPING DEVICE TO USE MOON TO MONITOR EARTH

Fulton Says Missile "Spy" Equipment Should Be In Operation Soon

THE HAGUE, The Netherlands, Aug. 29 (AP)-The United States was reported today to have developed electronic equipment capable of using the moon to monitor the face of the earth.

The report made by Representative James G. Fulton, Republican of Pennsylvania.

He hinted that the equipment could be used to detect instantaneously the launching of intercontinental ballistic missiles or nuclear explosions.

"This equipment is now being installed," he said. "It uses the moon as an artificial satellite. It is startling. It is a great breakthrough."

Mr. Fulton talked to newsmen after referring publicly to the moon system at a session here of the International Astronautical Federation….

The representative said today that the system worked on a principle of ion emission. Ions are electrified atoms. He implied that the detection worked by spotting ionization created by such forces as rocket launchings or explosions.

"It sees things back on earth," he said. "It involves bouncing waves off the moon. It is not radar. You would be surprised how good it is. We can tell things going on behind the Iron Curtain."

"This breakthrough makes an operating satellite out of the real moon, even before any probes are sent around the moon or landings made there," he said….

Mr. Fulton said that the system should be operating soon, but he added he was barred from giving any details as to whether there would have to be installations on opposite sides of the earth to cover the times when the moon was not visible in the United States."

Well thanks much for that Representative James Fulton. Guess that just about sums it up with the exception of the part about making the thing work all that much better by putting the actual equipment up there on the lunar surface. Well, it's only 1958 here. In 11 short years we had that nailed down big big big time.

This article a shot across the Soviet bow? Most likely not. Some things are best not kept secret. I would imagine we knew the Russians were up to the same. Just letting them know we would detect their launches from the get go. If their ICBMs were detected, ol' Curtis LeMay("Bombs Away LeMay", put a torch to Tokyo in WWII, and was prepared to do the same to all of Russia were they to get cute with an atom bomb of their own) would have had something to say about that. He had no qualms about vaporizing ballerinas now did he?
 
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