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Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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BTW if anyone is interested in how datum changes work here is a good write-up on the change Australia made in 2000 going from the Australian Map Grid 1966 (AMG66) and 1984 (AMG84) derived from the older Australian Geodetic Datum 1966 (AGD66) and 1984 (AGD84) to the more accurate and standardised Geocentric Datum of Australia (GDA) which involved a coordinate shift of approx 200m (at which point, using Patricks' 'logic', Australia ceased to exist).

I was working for National Mapping (aka AUSLIG) at the time and was part of the efforts to produce updated maps as part of the ongoing revison process.
 
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I've been watching you guys with amazement as you waste time with this guy - and no there is no 'theory you have to counter', LOL

I mean he is funny - but - why not assign one guy to counter him and the rest of you go do something more important like catching flies in the Soudan?

That's why I put him on ignore. I'd prefer not to waste more of my time.
 
I've been watching you guys with amazement as you waste time with this guy - and no there is no 'theory you have to counter', LOL

I mean he is funny - but - why not assign one guy to counter him and the rest of you go do something more important like catching flies in the Soudan?

That would be JayUtah.

Sorry, jay. :D
 
Nah that is a waste of Jay's time too. I'd suggest the proper counter-foil to Patrick is either Little Greg Rabbit, Anders or Saggy
 
It's okay. At the rate he's going I could probably write a script to answer his posts.

That was, in fact, the origin of the "chatbot" myth. I was irritated by a combination of the repetitiveness of several individual posters and the whack-a-mole phenomenon where infrequent posters wander in and say "but what about the (insert frequently debunked low-hanging-fruit here)?"

I'm not capable of programming such a device myself, so I just invented it out of whole cloth, claiming you, LunarOrbit and several others collaborated on it, and it was running as your screensaver.
 
Why are they so so so so afraid to image the moon

at lunar coordinates 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" east????????

An Obama birth certificate printing press sits there my friends!
 
They aren't, they did, and it's the descent stage, along with the ALSEP, PLSS's, etc.

You can't even get that part right. Sheesh.
 
My professional qualifications!!!? My Professional Qualifications??!!!

...would anybody in their right mind risk going forward with a mission like that?

Yes. And before you present another wall of ignorant text, please explain exactly what your professional and academic qualifications are in regards to space launches. Sorry, but unless you can demonstrate some actual experience in operating a spacecraft, I don't think the world is compelled to give a rat's hiney what you personally would do in some situation.

The thing gets hit by lightening. This is a moon landing mission. Men's lives are at risk, at stake, big time.

Airliners get hit by lightning all the time without needing to make an emergency landing. In that case there are more lives at risk, and the lives in question have booked routine passage expecting the air carrier to take all due precautions.

In the case of Apollo, the crews were highly trained, highly experienced test pilots who had been informed of the risk, were knowledgeable in the risk assessment, and who were accustomed to flying dangerous missions voluntarily.

Are you as a flight director, or Apollo Program director, seriously going to allow the thing to go forward?

Absolutely yes.

The CSM was affected, but the Saturn V launch vehicle was not. The launch vehicle was in control and was flying normally under power. In that situation: absolutely yes, you continue the ascent as planned. This is because ascent under power is a high-energy, changing-stage condition. In contrast, orbit is a low-energy, steady-state condition. "Aborting to orbit" is far preferable to trying to abort under power. If the launch vehicle is sound and can deliver the spacecraft to a stable orbit, then an abort may be decided subsequently, and would occur in the form of an SPS de-orbit, which is a far safer thing than an LES abort.

How do you know after the thing is hit by lightening that there is not some relatively subtle problem...

Because there's no indication of any. How do you know, getting into your car, that there isn't today some subtle unindicated failure waiting to kill you? Real flight directors differ from your hysterical caricature by basing their decisions on actual data, not on unsubstantiated suspicion.

Lightening could cause that, easily.

The normal operation of the launch vehicle could also cause any of that too. By your logic every launch would need to be aborted -- not just for the indication of failure, but for the suspicion of some unindicated failure.

You would abort the mission in the sense that you would bring the astronauts home as quickly and as safely as possible...

Nope. You don't abort during powered ascent unless it is the launch vehicle that is at fault. An LES abort is extremely dangerous. You attempt it only when the alternative is certain, immediate death.

The equipment that was affected by the lightning strike was redundant. Two units were provided, where only one was needed. There was a perfectly good signal conditioner ready to be used.

You err in assuming there was no way to validate the spacecraft for the remainder of the mission. In fact that's why the mission profile always called for an Earth parking orbit prior to TLI.

The equipment must all be working perfectly to carry out LOI, DOI, landing, ascent, lunar orbital rendezvous.

Hogwash. The Apollo system was designed specifically for redundancy so as not to require a perfect spacecraft in order to fly a successful mission. In fact all Apollo missions except for Apollo 17 encountered a significant failure. A significant number of airliner flights encounter a failure of one kind or another. Aerospace engineering is precisely the art of engineering for graceful degradation.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Apollo 12 is fake, right there...

Nope. Once again you've amply proven that you will shoot your mouth off ignorantly about things you don't even vaguely understand.


My professional qualifications!!!? My Professional Qualifications??!!!

I've got half a brain Jay. As I am fond of saying, Apollo is not about rocket science, not primarily anyway. It's only common sense dude.

If the Queen Mary got hit by lightening on her maiden voyage out, or any voyage out for that matter, the captain is not going to continue on his merry way out to sea with a full compliment of passengers, or even a training crew. You'd bring the ship back regardless of the fact that your instruments say all OK.

Ditto for the Apollo 12. This is acting Jay, sorry. VERY VERY VERY FAKE.
 
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How about you drewid, the little blue dot?

Horsey takes kings prawn


How about you drewid, the little blue dot? Pretty import map there, even if it is from a fake mission. What do you think the mysterious blue dot is doing there at K .2 and 5.6 drewid?

Not like it's not sitting right on 00 41'15" north and 23 26' 00" east or anything.
 
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My professional qualifications!!!? My Professional Qualifications??!!!

I've got half a brain Jay. As I am fond of saying, Apollo is not about rocket science, not primarily anyway. It's only common sense dude.

If the Queen Mary got hit by lightening on her maiden voyage out, or any voyage out for that matter, the captain is not going to continue on his merry way out to sea with a full compliment of passengers, or even a training crew. You'd bring the ship back regardless of the fact that your instruments say all OK.

Ditto for the Apollo 12. This is acting Jay, sorry. VERY VERY VERY FAKE.


Oops:

There is no such thing as lightning-proof boats, only lightning-protected boats. All-metal ships are rarely damaged, and injuries or deaths are uncommon. These ships are frequently struck, but the high conductivity of the large quantities of metal, with hundreds of square yards of hull in direct contact with the water, causes rapid dissipation of the electrical charge.

From http://nasdonline.org/document/209/d000007/boating-lightning-protection.html

Now, about those qualifications...
 
Hey, I don't deny my amateur status , but I'm doing better than Jay Barbree.

You realise that's the only true description you've ever given of yourself.
And you might want to check those numbers again.

Hey drewid, I don't deny my amateur status , but I'm doing better than Jay Barbree, the Apollo writer and astronaut fanny glue.

Look drewid, there's the NASA rump adhesive Barbree below with Glenn and Armstrong.



Astronauts John Glenn, Neil Armstrong and friend/Apollo Journalist Jay Barbree enjoy Tang and Vodka mixers at the journalist's 50 Years With NBC Reporting on Space Celebration. The astronauts flew out for the party, strapping on Apollo 11 Astronaut Endorsed Depends before they hit the bar. Who wants to go to the BR when you can just do it right there in real-time with your friends and never miss a hoot or yuk!???!!!


Look here drewid, see what a dummy Barbree is! He thinks one can actually see stars from the surface of the moon;

" “Where were the stars?” the myth believers then asked. The cameras that NASA sent to the moon had to use short-exposure times to take pictures of the bright lunar surface and the moonwalkers’ white spacesuits. Stars’ images, easily seen by the moonwalkers, were too faint and underexposed to be seen as they are in photographs taken from space shuttles and the International Space Station. "

Barbree, Jay; Alan Shepard; Deke Slayton (2011-04-27). Moon Shot: The Inside Story of America's Apollo Moon Landings (E-book Locations 3607-3609). Open Road E-riginal.

What a dummy that Barbree is!!!! I have only been doing Apollo for 5 months, Barbree's been "doing space" for 50 years, yet even I know you can't see stars from cislunar space or the surface of the moon. WHAT A DUMMY THAT 50 YEAR VETERAN OF SPACE JOURNALISM IS. Chalk one up for Patrick1000 and rank amateurs the world over!
 
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Hello Patrick1000... Calling the Good Doctor Socks. Come in please... Speak to me...

There are some questions and some information for you back in post 3987 which you have been ignoring.

The post includes a little gem of a solution for you to the exact spacing of the squares on LAM-2. Do you know the ones? Those same squares you have never figured out properly? The answer is there, besides being in your own material which you clearly haven't read properly or perhaps not comprehended, as usual.

Do have a read -- it might help you to stop repeating some of your errors, but certainly not all of them, like your weird and wrong term "radians."

By the way, you continue to prattle on about an imaginary "fake" in LAM-2. It has been explained over and over to you with the word datum, but you just cannot get it, can you?
 
Hey drewid, I don't deny my amateur status , but I'm doing better than Jay Barbree, the Apollo writer and astronaut fanny glue.
<snip, mainly because it's annoying and offensive>


Easily seen if dark adapted. Armstrong and Aldrin didn't have time for that. Discussed and dismissed.

Your bodily function obsession is interesting, though. Some trauma as a child, perhaps? Also, I would suggest that you are showing signs of ageism.
 
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How about Michael Collins SUSpilot?

Easily seen if dark adapted. Armstrong and Aldrin didn't have time for that. Discussed and dismissed.

Your bodily function obsession is interesting, though. Some trauma as a child, perhaps? Also, I would suggest that you are showing signs of ageism.

How about Michael Collins SUSpilot? He flew all the way to the moon, 240,000 miles and saw no stars. not even when the astronauts were photographing the solar corona during an eclipse, now that's blind!

I thought you needed to pass an eye exam to get a spaceship driver's license?

Oh, silly me.
 
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I suggest you discuss it with Aldrin.

Easily seen if dark adapted. Armstrong and Aldrin didn't have time for that. Discussed and dismissed.

.

From Aldrin's MAGNIFICENT DESOLATION. The Apollo 11 astronaut in his own words;

"We had to coordinate our times with Houston, since there was really no telling day from night in space. The sun was always shining, yet the sky around us was a constant black blanket dotted with millions of stars."

Abraham, Ken; Aldrin, Buzz (2009-06-23). Magnificent Desolation: The Long Journey Home from the Moon (p. 8). Crown Archetype.

Hey Fuzzy Buzzy, thought you guys had told us that you couldn't see stars, only the sun and the Earth in the black sky of cislunar space?

SUSpilot is still so uniformed Fuzzy, better give him a jingle. He's embarrassing himself debating this point on an internet thread.
 
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If the Queen Mary got hit by lightening on her maiden voyage out, or any voyage out for that matter, the captain is not going to continue on his merry way out to sea with a full compliment of passengers, or even a training crew. You'd bring the ship back regardless of the fact that your instruments say all OK.



Another quote worthy of a Stundie nomination!
 
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