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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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For all it's faults, a legal system without the barbaric capital punishment can come back on its mistakes.... If mistakes really they were
 
I see they are back to deleting posts that they disagree with over at .org. And it's deeply ironic to see Quennell (AKA Fast Pete) now arguing that the Italian criminal justice system needs substantial reform, when he's spent large chunks of his time since 2008 posting ever-more-ludicrous articles on TJMK about the magnificence and propriety of Italian justice. Quennell: please just go away for a while. Your view is not valid and not of value.
 
PMF is back up, and just as self-deluded as ever: Amanda Knox beat the system. She has learned from those mistakes. It's a game Amanda will play now. There will be another victim.

Don't hold your breath! Claudio Hellman is a righteous man.
 
SkewedView at Websleuths

SkewedView wrote at WebSleuths, "While I am very, very happy that AK & RS have been freed, I can't help hurting even more so for the Kerchers at this time. They are now stuck in a catch 22 that will never allow them to find true peace. They must now choose to either keep believing in the prosecutors etc and thus feel that their daughter was cheated out of justice, or they must accept the ruling as a true one, and thus deal with the guilt of having cheered a grave injustice being perpetrated in their loved one's name. I can tell you, it is a horror that nobody should ever have to deal with, and my heart goes out to them."

Some of my thoughts will be with the Kercher family tonight, thanks to the comment above.
 
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Ingoiolo said:
For all it's faults, a legal system without the barbaric capital punishment can come back on its mistakes.... If mistakes really they were
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Yes, they were mistakes in this case. But my opinion (which I stated before the acquittals) is that the Italian criminal justice system ultimately worked effectively in this case. The appeal trial took a closer and more critical look at the case against Knox and Sollecito, and correctly chose to disagree with the Massei verdict.

Now, I (and many others) would argue that Knox and Sollecito should never have been found guilty by Massei's court. And it's certainly true that four years of incarceration is unacceptable in a modern democracy when the case ultimately results in acquittal. But the system actually did perform as designed in this case (the Lumumba slander verdict notwithstanding). As I wrote before, I believe that Italian legislators should take a hard look at pre-trial and inter-trial time periods - particularly when defendants are remanded into custody. And I think they should also more closely examine the closeness of judges and prosecutors (which I think had a recognisable detrimental effect on the Massei trial). But outside of those issues, I think we have to understand that the Italian system worked as designed in acquitting Knox and Sollecito today.
 
halides1 said:
SkewedView wrote at WebSleuths,
"While I am very, very happy that AK & RS have been freed, I can't help hurting even more so for the Kerchers at this time. They are now stuck in a catch 22 that will never allow them to find true peace. They must now choose to either keep believing in the prosecutors etc and thus feel that their daughter was cheated out of justice, or they must accept the ruling as a true one, and thus deal with the guilt of having cheered a grave injustice being perpetrated in their loved one's name. I can tell you, it is a horror that nobody should ever have to deal with, and my heart goes out to them."
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Some of my thoughts will be with the Kercher family tonight, thanks to the comment above.
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That is a terrific comment but it is not that hard of a decision, doing the right thing.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I have to admiot that with the stuff going on in my life right now,
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Glad you could have a moment of cheerful distraction.

PhantomWolf said:
The Kercher's have my deepest sympathies, ....
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Yes, for their loss and the horrible way it happened.

But I can't help wondering if I would be so willing to believe in the witch hunt because I lacked objectivity in my grief. It's so common for the survivors of a murder to hold on to the guilt of a convicted person later found innocent. Even rape victims who've been convinced with false memories have a hard time letting go when DNA absolves someone of the crime they had been previously convicted of. But that's a little more understandable, the rape victim may have a false memory to reconcile. Those of us who know and understand false memories might be able to let one go, but if you didn't know about such possibilities, it would be very hard.

The family said before the verdict they hoped the jury would go by the evidence. I wonder, however, if the family already wrongly concluded what the evidence showed. I suspect they did.

And if I were Knox, I'm not sure how I'd feel about forgiving the family that remained convinced you were a witch. IMO, it's not like the evidence was ever convincing if one was objective about it. But then there were people in this forum who believe themselves to be critical thinkers who seemed to think the evidence was incriminating. I have a hard time with that knowing some of them are critical thinkers most of the time.

But I never saw the rational reason they saw the evidence the way they did except for lack of knowledge about trace DNA. I hope now some people in our community take a closer look at the significance of trace DNA. There are times it is incriminating and times it is not.
 
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Rolfe said:
There was a very good interview with CDV on the BBC. Also with Bongiorno, but as she doesn't speak English, I think some was lost in translation.
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Yeah, there was a bit in the middle where Bongiorno started talking about the first degree Court refusing an independent expert review, and the reporter translated that as the evidence not having been examined in-depth or something, then went off on the wrong track for the next bit as well. And Bongiorno en-un-ci-ates so clearly, she's pretty easy to understand!

I kind of ♥ her for that "I don't speak English. Except a bit of poetry" comment though (Bongiorno, not the reporter!) .
 
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Here's a link to a screengrab of Sky News' embarrassing gaffe that I mentioned, when it erroneously added graphics that stated that Knox had been found guilty of murder in the appeal:

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...glia_la_traduzione_e_la_condanna_-22647496/1/

And in fact, it got even worse than this screengrab. A few seconds after this grab, a huge yellow banner graphic appeared saying something along the lines of "KNOX LOSES APPEAL". I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the Sky News production/editorial meeting tomorrow......
 
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Rolfe said:
Even tonight, when looking at a newspaper spread, one BBC reporter remarked that there was nothing about Raffaele Sollecito, he seemed to be the forgotten victim. At that, his co-presenter chimed in to say that of course the really forgotten victim was Meredith Kercher - and the camera promptly zoomed in on a sizeable article about the Kerchers on the right of the page. The co-presenter then started praising their "restraint and dignity".

I wonder if that guy reads PMF?

Rolfe.
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I also thought Raffaele was ignored in the coverage. And there is no doubt Meredith's death was overshadowed by Sollecito's and Knox's plight.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt the last time you ridiculed praise for the Kercher's and didn't chime in but here you go again...........in quotes at that!


Not very becoming.
 
LondonJohn said:
Here's a link to a screengrab of Sky News' embarrassing gaffe that I mentioned, when it erroneously added graphics that stated that Knox had been found guilty of murder in the appeal:

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...glia_la_traduzione_e_la_condanna_-22647496/1/

And in fact, it got even worse than this screengrab. A few seconds after this grab, a huge yellow banner graphic appeared saying something along the lines of "KNOX LOSES APPEAL". I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the Sky News production/editorial meeting tomorrow......
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I want to sue them for bringing me close to a heart attack
 
I was very pleased to see the verdict this afternoon. I had anticipated acquittals in light of the fact that there was no credible and compelling evidence against either Ms. Knox or Mr. Sollecito, but it was particularly satisfying to hear Judge Pratillo Hellmann actually say that Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito were acquitted 'because they did not commit the crimes'. That is significantly better than just hearing 'reasonable doubt'.

Justice, in that regard, has indeed prevailed.

I think that the decision to uphold Ms. Knox's conviction on the calunnia charge relating to Mr. Lumumba was incorrect, but I had predicted it so it didn't come as a surprise.

In any event, I hope that Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito are able to quickly get past the wrongs that were perpetrated against them by the Perugia police and prosecutors and go on to lead happy and productive lives.

I also hope that Ms. Kercher's family is able to quickly come to terms with the reality that Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito were not the authors of the Kerchers' grievous misfortune. I suspect that someone is going to have to sit down with them and tell them the truth about the lack of evidence and the wrongdoing of the Perugia police and prosecutors in order for them to attain the closure that they deserve.

I am very much looking forward to the release of the court's reasons for judgment (motivations report).
 
katy_did said:
Yeah, there was a bit in the middle where Bongiorno started talking about the first degree Court refusing an independent expert review, and the reporter translated that as the evidence not having been examined in-depth or something, then went off on the wrong track for the next bit as well. And Bongiorno en-un-ci-ates so clearly, she's pretty easy to understand!

I kind of ♥ her for that "I don't speak English. Except a bit of poetry" comment though (Bongiorno, not the reporter!) .
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Yes: Luisa Baldini (the BBC anchor for the verdict) was very poor tonight. She normally works as a basic UK roving reporter for News 24, usually covering light human interest stories. She used to be a sports reporter for the BBC, if my memory serves me well. It is clear that she was selected for this assignment purely because she is bilingual in Italian and English. But she had very little command of the basic facts of the case, and was an awful live interviewer. Not the BBC's finest hour, it's safe to say.

I wish Bongiorno had recited her poem! I wonder if it was a Wordsworth or a Pam Ayres.... :P
 
The Kerchers, I think the best for them would be to talk to is Ron Hendry. He is a kind, honest man who would tell them exactly what happened to Meredith. It would be good if he talked to them. John Kercher doesn't understand basics - he actually believes there were two knives.
 
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LondonJohn said:
Here's a link to a screengrab of Sky News' embarrassing gaffe that I mentioned, when it erroneously added graphics that stated that Knox had been found guilty of murder in the appeal:

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...glia_la_traduzione_e_la_condanna_-22647496/1/

And in fact, it got even worse than this screengrab. A few seconds after this grab, a huge yellow banner graphic appeared saying something along the lines of "KNOX LOSES APPEAL". I'd like to be a fly on the wall in the Sky News production/editorial meeting tomorrow......
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I thought it was going convicted too when he started out on the defamation charge.
 
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