Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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LondonJohn said:
Eek. The newspaper review on Sky News is showing a side headline in tomorrow's Times which alludes to the Kercher family "not being ready to forgive". I hope that this is either an invention or a misinterpretation. If that's based on something that anyone from the Kercher family has said after the verdicts, then I'm saddened and dismayed, and my view on the Kerchers will be changing.
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When the Kercher news conference was held earlier today, I seem to recall that we were informed that there would be another news conference tomorrow with them. In fact, I'm sure it was stated.

It will be very interesting to see how that pans out, after the comments they made today before the acquittals.

:(
 
I have to admiot that with the stuff going on in my life right now, I wasn't wanting to be overly hopeful on this, so to see the Not Guilty verdict, and even better, Not Guilty by reason of not having been involved in the crime rather then just by reasonable doubt did brighten my day a little.

I hope that both Raffaele and Amanda can now pick up the pieces of their lives and move on.

The Kercher's have my deepest sympathies, and I hope that when they get to read the motivations report that the scales that the 2M's have put over their eyes will be removed and they will realise at last that the true killer was Rudy, and that the police and prosecution treated their pain and their daughter's murder like a joke. I hope that in time the realisation of this will allow them to direct the anger where it is due, to those that failed them by failing to take the case seriously and instead trying to convict because of tears, hip wiggles, cartwheels and pizza.
 
Well, as sure as I was there had to be an acquittal (thinking about it logically) my heart was still in my mouth when Hellmann started speaking. I do believe I may have been in tears when the outcome became clear, though I can't really remember, it's all a bit of a blur.

I really hope that Meredith's family can find some kind of peace. The botched police investigation has prolonged something that should have been over a long time ago. They just trusted their lawyer, and it's not their fault he wasn't worthy of that kind of trust. They are as much victims of this investigation as Amanda and Raffaele, and I hope they can find a way to come to terms with this, even if that's a vain hope.
 
Kaosium said:
We'll see if that holds up through the Supreme Court of Italy. It might very well be that never should have gotten past the Hellmann Court, but was chosen as a 'compromise' as it allows them to get 'justice' for Perugian Patrick Lumumba and not totally throw the Polizia di Stato in Perugia under the bus.
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It might survive the Supreme Court though, for much the same reasons. And as this was the second go through of that case too, any appeal to that level can only be on a point of law, I believe.

Amanda may have to accept that she was screwed over on that particular point.

Kaosium said:
That's one of those things that people seem to be saying without examining if it has any merit. How many other victims of murders four years or so old can you find with 6.1 M (million) hits on google? I'd say Meredith Kercher was one of those rare murder victims who will be remembered far longer and better than the vast majority.
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Even tonight, when looking at a newspaper spread, one BBC reporter remarked that there was nothing about Raffaele Sollecito, he seemed to be the forgotten victim. At that, his co-presenter chimed in to say that of course the really forgotten victim was Meredith Kercher - and the camera promptly zoomed in on a sizeable article about the Kerchers on the right of the page. The co-presenter then started praising their "restraint and dignity".

I wonder if that guy reads PMF?

Rolfe.
 
LondonJohn said:
As far as I read things, there are zero visible grounds for any prosecution appeal to the Supreme Court. None whatsoever. It would actually, I suppose, be quite amusing to see Mignini try to appeal on the grounds related to the DNA report: I suspect that he might have to add "vexatious appeal" to his growing list of professional wrongdoings. I don't regaard myself as a vindictive person, but in his case I think he has caused so much active harm and hurt that I will be glad to see him get his comeuppance. I am glad that his career in the law will almost certainly be over within the year.
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Right. Mignini is vile and venal but he's not actually stupid. There will be no prosecution appeal. He'll be too busy fighting to salvage what remains of his reputation in Italy. Perhaps he'll even run for PM. :D
 
LondonJohn said:
What a deeply horrible individual he is. I hope that he packs up his tent and shuffles off into obscurity now. He will not be missed. Oh, and the "crowds on the street" were nothing more than a rent-a-mob. I suspect that the likes of "Clander" might have been among them. Disgusting.
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I dunno what that was, I tried poking around to find out what that street scene meant and the answers were conflicting. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't 'rent-a-mob' types, though the post suggesting off-duty cops instigating it doesn't strike me as implausible.

There was one guy...CNN production I think, with the British-accented correspondent, where this one bushy-haired dude was real interested in getting on camera, and for some reason 'Machiavelli?' came to mind. :p
 
LondonJohn said:
Really! Now is not the appropriate time for self-gratification! ;)

(Sorry, I couldn't help it! And who can resist a little smutty levity at times like this?!)
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LJ, did you see that bit with Dalla Vedova on the BBC where he thanks the reporter very much for calling him Knox's 'lead lawyer' but says WTTE of it's not true, since Ghirga was there too and was his equal?

:duck:

:D;)
 
Katody Matrass said:
Pisa's disgraceful false story in it's full glory:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8510/falseknoxstory02.jpg
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To be fair, he does express what seem to be sincere doubts that a guilty verdict from Hellman was justified, citing that he seems to have believed some very dubious witnesses, and ignored C&V.

I don't find it so terribly reprehensible - he hasn't invented anything of real substance in the full article. I agree it's not good, but it's mainly not good because some idiot pressed the button too soon.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Some sources are claiming that it was Mignini who was being booed, but the BBC coverage certainly didn't support that. BBC line was that the cat-calling included shouts of "murderer" and that it was particularly bad when any of the defence team made an appearance.

Rolfe.
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Much of tthe booing was people yelling "shame" towards the Italian Justice System. A CNN reporter interviewed a couple people who were upset with the system.
 
The Kercher siblings on forgiveness

At the press conference before the verdicts were announced, Stephanie Kercher said, "It would be very difficult to forgive anything at this stage. I think that everyone needs to remember… the brutality of what actually happened that night and everything Meredith must have felt, everything she went through. The fear, the terror and not knowing why. And she didn’t deserve it that. Nobody deserved that. She loved this place. It is a beautiful city. Even being here now, it is (beautiful). It is very difficult to know what happened that night without knowing the trurth and that is why we are here. We absolutely believe in the Italian justice system. Everybody has a right to a free trial. She was a great friend to everyone that knew her. She was always there for everyone. I can’t think of a reason why anyone would kill her. The evidence is obviously there."

Lyle Kercher said, "It is very hard to talk about forgiveness and difficult to speak about forgiving. Four years on the one hand is a very long time. On the other it isn’t and it is still very raw. Looking at the photographs (tendered to court), you would find it difficult to forgive somebody who did that to your sibling. It wasn’t a case of celebrating (at the first trial), three young people involoved in this, have also had their lives taken away. You have to balance forgiveness with compassion as well. But I am not sure we will be giving out forgiveness. Everyone accepts this is a very unusual case with a lot of interest. We can't blame her parents if they believe in her innocence, but it's obviously hard for us. It's difficult for our legal team, who are battling against what is essentially a large PR machine."
 
katy_did said:
Well, as sure as I was there had to be an acquittal (thinking about it logically) my heart was still in my mouth when Hellmann started speaking. I do believe I may have been in tears when the outcome became clear, though I can't really remember, it's all a bit of a blur.

I really hope that Meredith's family can find some kind of peace. The botched police investigation has prolonged something that should have been over a long time ago. They just trusted their lawyer, and it's not their fault he wasn't worthy of that kind of trust. They are as much victims of this investigation as Amanda and Raffaele, and I hope they can find a way to come to terms with this, even if that's a vain hope.
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I couldn't agree more. The Kerchers have seemingly been cruelly manipulated and exploited by Maresca and Mignini, and that is a disgrace. I hope that the Kerchers can get some peace and that fashionable word "closure", and that they reconcile themselves with the truth that Guede alone killed Meredith Kercher.


And at this point, I want to wearily point out once again that the Supreme Court ruling in Guede's case has no bearing on the findings of fact in Knox's/Sollecito's case. The Supreme Court endorsed and affirmed Guede's conviction, and ruled that the two lower courts applied the law correctly in reaching their findings of fact and their verdicts. One of the findings of fact in those lower courts was that Guede was one of a group of three (or more) assailants.

But that finding of fact is utterly irrelevant when it comes to assessing the case against Knox and Sollecito. And furthermore, the Knox/Sollecito acquittals have no impact on the safety of Guede's conviction. The "group assailant" scenario was clearly not central to the conviction of Guede. He therefore has no grounds to claim that the Knox/Sollecito verdict (with its implication that either Guede was the sole assailant or that he had accomplices who are still unknown and unidentified) impacts upon his own conviction.

Therefore, the following things are all true: 1) There are no grounds for appeal to the Supreme Court in the case of Knox/Sollecito on anything related to the Supreme Court's Guede ruling; 2) There are no grounds for Guede to appeal his own conviction to the Supreme Court on anything related to the Hellmann court verdict.
 
katy_did said:
Well, as sure as I was there had to be an acquittal (thinking about it logically) my heart was still in my mouth when Hellmann started speaking. I do believe I may have been in tears when the outcome became clear, though I can't really remember, it's all a bit of a blur.
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Same here.

I really hope that Meredith's family can find some kind of peace. The botched police investigation has prolonged something that should have been over a long time ago. They just trusted their lawyer, and it's not their fault he wasn't worthy of that kind of trust. They are as much victims of this investigation as Amanda and Raffaele, and I hope they can find a way to come to terms with this, even if that's a vain hope.
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I hope they give it a little time before they comment more. I know they have a presser scheduled but I think they should cancel. They should build Meredith's scholarship and other positive real memorials to her. Putting the kids in jail, guilty or innocent, isn't a memorial to Meredith.

They should read the motivations, listen to the kids in their interviews, stop communicating with the PGP, if they in fact are, and reevaluate the whole case. If they come to the realization that the kids are innocent, they should publicly say so.

Amanda should make a healthy contribution to the Meredith scholarship once the Kerchers accept her innocence.
 
According to this source, Amanda skipped town pronto. She'll be spending the night somewhere near Rome. TGcom. Raffale's attorneys say his location is being kept secret. (I think we can assume he's skipped town too.)

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katy_did said:
LJ, did you see that bit with Dalla Vedova on the BBC where he thanks the reporter very much for calling him Knox's 'lead lawyer' but says WTTE of it's not true, since Ghirga was there too and was his equal?

:duck:

:D;)
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I saw that - I saw that!!!

:D:D
 
PDiGirolamo said:
Much of tthe booing was people yelling "shame" towards the Italian Justice System. A CNN reporter interviewed a couple people who were upset with the system.
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But there was also clear and audibly-identifiable rabble-rousing from a small hard core of people protesting the acquittals. Remember, though, that there were people yelling "murderer!" and "assassin"! after the Massei verdict. These people are not worth dwelling upon: they are obviously neanderthal agitators who possibly also have another hobby as football hooligans .
 
halides1 said:
At the press conference before the verdicts were announced, Stephanie Kercher said, "It would be very difficult to forgive anything at this stage. I think that everyone needs to remember… the brutality of what actually happened that night and everything Meredith must have felt, everything she went through. The fear, the terror and not knowing why. And she didn’t deserve it that. Nobody deserved that. She loved this place. It is a beautiful city. Even being here now, it is (beautiful). It is very difficult to know what happened that night without knowing the trurth and that is why we are here. We absolutely believe in the Italian justice system. Everybody has a right to a free trial. She was a great friend to everyone that knew her. She was always there for everyone. I can’t think of a reason why anyone would kill her. The evidence is obviously there."

Lyle Kercher said, "It is very hard to talk about forgiveness and difficult to speak about forgiving. Four years on the one hand is a very long time. On the other it isn’t and it is still very raw. Looking at the photographs (tendered to court), you would find it difficult to forgive somebody who did that to your sibling. It wasn’t a case of celebrating (at the first trial), three young people involoved in this, have also had their lives taken away. You have to balance forgiveness with compassion as well. But I am not sure we will be giving out forgiveness. Everyone accepts this is a very unusual case with a lot of interest. We can't blame her parents if they believe in her innocence, but it's obviously hard for us. It's difficult for our legal team, who are battling against what is essentially a large PR machine."
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What their legal team has been battling against is truth and justice.
 
katy_did said:
LJ, did you see that bit with Dalla Vedova on the BBC where he thanks the reporter very much for calling him Knox's 'lead lawyer' but says WTTE of it's not true, since Ghirga was there too and was his equal?

:duck:

:D;)
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Hehehe I did. But it's clear that to all intents and purposes Dalla Vedova was Knox's lead lawyer. It was he who led closing arguments, it was he who was at Knox's side for the verdicts tonight, and it was he who shepherded the Knox/Mellas family and made the first statements outside the courtroom.

In the grand scheme of things, it's totally irrelevant of course. And it only arose because one particular poster (who's curiously absent tonight) was belligerent and sardonic in his attempts to show that I had "made a mistake". But I'm feeling conciliatory tonight, so: Pilot, you can "win" the argument of who was Knox's lead lawyer, if it makes you feel better about yourself. As long as you concede that I "won" the argument on whether Knox and Sollecito should be acquitted :)
 
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