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Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

Anders Lindman said:
If they had the Saturn V for military purposes and it was smaller than would have been needed for the Apollo mission, then it would be convenient to still use the Saturn V but lie about the real size and film the Apollo launches in slow motion, with dramatic angles, boosted sound and with altered launch pad to make it look bigger than it really was.
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And the people at the launch site ?

And that doesn't answer the "why ?"

The idea that HIV doesn't exist may sound outrageous, but listen from about 3:00 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWoJanKCVDw
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No, Anders. Some of us are more rigorous than you, and don't accept rhetoric as evidence.
 
Anders Lindman said:
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Yes, I believe the Saturn V rockets were used for secret military payloads.

The publicly built ones are all accounted for. Who built the secret ones? Where?

Oh, by the way, I'm a professional aeronautical engineer and an expert on the Apollo program. So please provide actual facts, not speculation.

That may be the actual size, or it could be a fake mockup.

Have you personally inspected it? Do you have any actual evidence that this is not a real Saturn V?

If the actual size, has anyone measured it and compared it to the specs?

Yes.
 
Anders Lindman said:
Rockets for putting satellites into orbit and things like that usually don't need to be as big as the Saturn V was.
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That depends on what payload you want to put into orbit. If your desired payload was something the size of, say, Skylab, then indeed you need a Saturn V to put it there.

Are you trained in aerospace enginering?
 
Anders Lindman said:
The Saturn V rocket is real, but I'm not sure it was as large as they claim. I think the Saturn V rocket was designed for the secret NRO to put satellites and other military equipment into space.
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So is the VAB the same size they claim? There are tons of amateur photographs of roll-out -- meaning you can compare the size of one to the other.

What about the stages on display at several museums?
 
Anders Lindman said:
Yes, I believe the Saturn V rockets were used for secret military payloads.

Here is an image of a Saturn V rocket: http://newcarssss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Saturn-V-Rocket-Pictures.jpg

That may be the actual size, or it could be a fake mockup. If the actual size, has anyone measured it and compared it to the specs?
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No, never.

There are no such thing as fine scale modelers, or space buffs. Nor was there ever an Apollo 13, Moon, or From the Earth to the Moon. There are no dxf's in the NASA archives, and no-one has ever done a scale render of one.

What, do you live in a town of twenty people? How dull-witted do you think the rest of the world is, really?
 
Anders Lindman said:
I usually proceed without much thinking. Not in a thoughtless way but without too much effort. Often I don't like to put in a lot of tedious work.
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I believe the first sentence - almost without reservation.

If you don't like to put in the tedious work, why would you not accept the conventional, substantiated views of science? You know, the ones where the work has already been done?

Especially since your proposed alternative requires an absolutely mind blowing amount of work both to maintain the facade of what the rest of us call science, and to supress the "real science".
 
Look, just to underline my last post....Anders is postulating a great world of complete uncaring, who will look blindly at the dimensions of the Saturn V stack in their "My first Space Book" and continue on without question or comment.

Lets compare this to the real world. Anders, one of the examples I gave is fine scale modelers. These are people so incredibly monomaniacal about getting the details right they have generated detailed maps for each and every LM (flown and not) JUST to show the slight differences in how the different thermal protective materials were applied. And just to get the colors right, they purchased (at great expense) samples of the actual material from collectors.

These are people who have extended, years-long arguments about the precise distance between the ladder rungs on the LM. They would NOT let discrepancies between published dimensions and photographs (that some of them took themselves back in the 70's!) of Saturn V elements slide.
 
Anders Lindman said:
If they had the Saturn V for military purposes and it was smaller than would have been needed for the Apollo mission, then it would be convenient to still use the Saturn V but lie about the real size and film the Apollo launches in slow motion, with dramatic angles, boosted sound and with altered launch pad to make it look bigger than it really was.
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This makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Belz... said:
Since you have told us that Einstein's theory is "obviously" false, why are so few people in the know ? Those professors should be able to spot the flaws in the theory, should they not ? Why are you the only one claiming that it's a hoax ? What makes you so special, especially considering your obvious, and admitted, ignorance of the subject matter ?
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I don't remember exactly when I started doubting Einstein's theories. I had heard several alternative, and even mainstream, scientists talking about the possibility of Einstein being wrong. And then perhaps in combination with looking into the atom bomb hoax I started question the whole nuclear thing including Einstein's theories. Not nuclear power plants. I still believed nuclear power plants were definitely real. Today I think that maybe even those can be a hoax, lol.
 
Border Reiver said:
I believe the first sentence - almost without reservation.

If you don't like to put in the tedious work, why would you not accept the conventional, substantiated views of science? You know, the ones where the work has already been done?

Especially since your proposed alternative requires an absolutely mind blowing amount of work both to maintain the facade of what the rest of us call science, and to supress the "real science".
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It requires a huge conspiracy yes, but I don't think it requires many people to be a part of the conspiracy. Less than 1% of all top scientists would be enough or something like that.
 
Anders Lindman said:
The NRO was a secret agency during the 60s.
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Perhaps, but the fact remains that only one set of companies in the world in the 1960s had the knowledge and facilities to build the Saturn V. And the ones built by that consortium are all accounted for. A Saturn V is not saltine crackers or car seats for babies. It represented the pinnacle of the art in rocketry. One doesn't just casually roll them off some assembly line.

As I said, this is my profession. I want you to tell me exactly who built the "secret" Saturn Vs and where, or else admit you don't know. You're just idly speculating from a position of extreme ignorance at this point.
 
Anders Lindman said:
It requires a huge conspiracy yes, but I don't think it requires many people to be a part of the conspiracy. Less than 1% of all top scientists would be enough or something like that.
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Please give three names of people you know to be in the secret echelon of top scientists, and describe what you did to determine that's who they were.
 
Anders, the internet is not real.

It is a conspiracy. None of the people you think you are trolling actually exist. Not even me. Your "internet" connection goes to your ISP's servers but stops there. Their mainframe is a malevolent Turing machine, responding to your questions with misdirection and authentic-looking but completely made up evidence. None of it is real. That's why the world doesn't seem to make sense. It's playing with you.
 
nomuse said:
These are people who have extended, years-long arguments about the precise distance between the ladder rungs on the LM. They would NOT let discrepancies between published dimensions and photographs (that some of them took themselves back in the 70's!) of Saturn V elements slide.
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Unless...
 
JayUtah said:
Perhaps, but the fact remains that only one set of companies in the world in the 1960s had the knowledge and facilities to build the Saturn V. And the ones built by that consortium are all accounted for. A Saturn V is not saltine crackers or car seats for babies. It represented the pinnacle of the art in rocketry. One doesn't just casually roll them off some assembly line.

As I said, this is my profession. I want you to tell me exactly who built the "secret" Saturn Vs and where, or else admit you don't know. You're just idly speculating from a position of extreme ignorance at this point.
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I think the Saturn V rockets were built publicly but the purpose of these rockets was for military purposes. Heck, even the Apollo launches may have had military payloads since they hardly carried any astronauts.
 
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