Merged Does CERN prove Einstein wrong?

[Anders Lindman]

Does your conspiracy involve all physics professors so that they can make sure that none of their grad students pick GPS-related topics for theses?

Basically none of the physics professors are a part of the shadow science probably. Conspiracy researcher Alan Watt said that only a few students are chosen to become a part of the science level above the public level. Most researchers, even top professors, have no clue about that higher level of science.

 

[yairhol]

Anders Lindman, you seem to think some of the most dramatic of human research is fake although almost all of it is based on mathematics which cannot be argued and then tested at the laboratories to back up the calculations, yet you believe blindly some youtube videos made by this or that person?

 

[JayUtah]

...

The Saturn V rocket is real, but I'm not sure it was as large as they claim.

Have you measured the two surviving examples and compared your measurements with the published figures?

I think the Saturn V rocket was designed for the secret NRO to put satellites and other military equipment into space.

Of course the designers considered other applications besides Apollo, including military payloads. Designers of launch vehicles today also consider the broadest possible market. But you seem to think Saturn Vs were actually used for such payloads, secret missions we don't know about publicly. Have I guessed correctly what you believe?

 

[twinstead]

Have I guessed correctly what you believe?

I don't think Anders himself has guessed correctly what he believes...

 

[twinstead]

No, relativistic calculations in GPS receivers for the public market may be difficult to fake, because there are so many manufacturers of such receivers (unless they all use the same microchip from one manufacturer that has on-chip calculations, in which case that would be easy to fake).

Well, then what is your explanation for relativistic calculations in GPS receivers that don't support your conclusions?

 

[JayUtah]

I don't think Anders himself has guessed correctly what he believes...

So I see. Fringe thinking tends to say, "I believe in anything except the mainstream." But when you fashion your thinking as not accepting a certain conclusion, there are an infinite number of directions in which you can run away from it. The error is to try to go in several of them at once.

Saying "I disbelieve in relativity" isn't a license to follow several different non-relativistic paths simultaneously and ignore the contradictions. Nor can you credibly explain away the evidence that seems to support relativity by speculating about various affirmative alternatives but not testing any of them. Simply because you can imagine something to the contrary doesn't mean you've noticeably undermined the prevailing conclusion.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Anders Lindman, you seem to think some of the most dramatic of human research is fake although almost all of it is based on mathematics which cannot be argued and then tested at the laboratories to back up the calculations, yet you believe blindly some youtube videos made by this or that person?

No, I need more than just some claim from someone on a video. But just one claim can be enough to get me interested to look more into it.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The Saturn V rocket is real, but I'm not sure it was as large as they claim.

Have you measured the two surviving examples and compared your measurements with the published figures?

I think the Saturn V rocket was designed for the secret NRO to put satellites and other military equipment into space.

Of course the designers considered other applications besides Apollo, including military payloads. Designers of launch vehicles today also consider the broadest possible market. But you seem to think Saturn Vs were actually used for such payloads, secret missions we don't know about publicly. Have I guessed correctly what you believe?

Yes, I believe the Saturn V rockets were used for secret military payloads.

Here is an image of a Saturn V rocket: http://newcarssss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Saturn-V-Rocket-Pictures.jpg

That may be the actual size, or it could be a fake mockup. If the actual size, has anyone measured it and compared it to the specs?

 

[Greedo]

No, I need more than just some claim from someone on a video. But just one claim can be enough to get me interested to look more into it.

or


I'm sorta starting to shift towards the latter.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Well, then what is your explanation for relativistic calculations in GPS receivers that don't support your conclusions?

But the question still is if relativistic calculations are needed in the GPS receivers or if the clock adjustment in the satellites is enough to compensate for relativity effects.

"Relativistic effects

The following section shall not provide a comprehensive explanation of the theory of relativity. In the normal life we are quite unaware of the omnipresence of the theory of relativity. However it has an influence on many processes, among them is the proper functioning of the GPS system. This influence will be explained shortly in the following.

As we already learned, the time is a relevant factor in GPS navigation and must be accurate to 20 - 30 nanoseconds to ensure the necessary accuracy. Therefore the fast movement of the satellites themselves (nearly 12000 km/h) must be considered.

Whoever already dealt with the theory of relativity knows that time runs slower during very fast movements. For satellites moving with a speed of 3874 m/s, clocks run slower when viewed from earth. This relativistic time dilation leads to an inaccuracy of time of approximately 7,2 microseconds per day (1 microsecond = 10-6 seconds).

The theory of relativity also says that time moves the slower the stronger the field of gravitation is. For an observer on the earth surface the clock on board of a satellite is running faster (as the satellite in 20000 km height is exposed to a much weaker field of gravitation than the observer). And this second effect is six times stronger than the time dilation explained above.

Altogether, the clocks of the satellites seem to run a little faster. The shift of time to the observer on earth would be about 38 milliseconds per day and would make up for an total error of approximately 10 km per day. In order that those error do not have to be corrected constantly, the clocks of the satellites were set to 10.229999995453 Mhz instead of 10.23 Mhz but they are operated as if they had 10.23 MHz. By this trick the relativistic effects are compensated once and for all." -- http://www.kowoma.de/en/gps/errors.htm

 

[twinstead]

But the question still is if relativistic calculations are needed in the GPS receivers or if the clock adjustment in the satellites is enough to compensate for relativity effects.

"Relativistic effects

The following section shall not provide a comprehensive explanation of the theory of relativity. In the normal life we are quite unaware of the omnipresence of the theory of relativity. However it has an influence on many processes, among them is the proper functioning of the GPS system. This influence will be explained shortly in the following.

As we already learned, the time is a relevant factor in GPS navigation and must be accurate to 20 - 30 nanoseconds to ensure the necessary accuracy. Therefore the fast movement of the satellites themselves (nearly 12000 km/h) must be considered.

Whoever already dealt with the theory of relativity knows that time runs slower during very fast movements. For satellites moving with a speed of 3874 m/s, clocks run slower when viewed from earth. This relativistic time dilation leads to an inaccuracy of time of approximately 7,2 microseconds per day (1 microsecond = 10-6 seconds).

The theory of relativity also says that time moves the slower the stronger the field of gravitation is. For an observer on the earth surface the clock on board of a satellite is running faster (as the satellite in 20000 km height is exposed to a much weaker field of gravitation than the observer). And this second effect is six times stronger than the time dilation explained above.

Altogether, the clocks of the satellites seem to run a little faster. The shift of time to the observer on earth would be about 38 milliseconds per day and would make up for an total error of approximately 10 km per day. In order that those error do not have to be corrected constantly, the clocks of the satellites were set to 10.229999995453 Mhz instead of 10.23 Mhz but they are operated as if they had 10.23 MHz. By this trick the relativistic effects are compensated once and for all." -- http://www.kowoma.de/en/gps/errors.htm

Anders I'm beginning to think you are simply gullible. Surely you must agree to give EVERYTHING the same scrutiny and skepticism, even things that you agree with, right?

 

[dasmiller]

Basically none of the physics professors are a part of the shadow science probably. Conspiracy researcher Alan Watt said that only a few students are chosen to become a part of the science level above the public level. Most researchers, even top professors, have no clue about that higher level of science.

Then how do they control the myriad university experiments that involve relativity, including all the precise GPS analyses?

 

[twinstead]

Yes, I believe the Saturn V rockets were used for secret military payloads.

My 9 year old still believes in Santa Claus.

Here is an image of a Saturn V rocket: http://newcarssss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Saturn-V-Rocket-Pictures.jpg

That may be the actual size, or it could be a fake mockup. If the actual size, has anyone measured it and compared it to the specs?

So, if it measures different than the specs, you'll say the rocket in your image is an actual Saturn V rocket, and if it measures the same you'll say the rocket in your image is a fake mock up. Probably made to fool people who decide to measure it and compare it to the specs, right?

Crafty, that NWO. We're DOOMED.

 

[Greedo]

"secret military payload"

Explain me then, why the need for the fake size? Why lie about the size at all? If your theory is true, then the Saturn V-Weapons carriers were so amazingly well disguised that nobody, not even the ones that worked on them noticed. Oh, exept... you.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Anders I'm beginning to think you are simply gullible. Surely you must agree to give EVERYTHING the same scrutiny and skepticism, even things that you agree with, right?

I usually proceed without much thinking. Not in a thoughtless way but without too much effort. Often I don't like to put in a lot of tedious work.

 

[Anders Lindman]

"secret military payload"

Explain me then, why the need for the fake size? Why lie about the size at all? If your theory is true, then the Saturn V-Weapons carriers were so amazingly well disguised that nobody, not even the ones that worked on them noticed. Oh, exept... you.

Rockets for putting satellites into orbit and things like that usually don't need to be as big as the Saturn V was.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Then how do they control the myriad university experiments that involve relativity, including all the precise GPS analyses?

One guess is that the experiments for verifying Einstein's relativity at the lower education levels always turn out to have too much inaccuracy in the measurements. And at higher levels, such as Ph.D. research, the experiments are not done at all and instead previous results (published by gatekeeper scientists) are referenced in order to not waste time and effort on repeating those experiments again and again.

 

[Greedo]

Rockets for putting satellites into orbit and things like that usually don't need to be as big as the Saturn V was.

You did not answer my question. Why lie about the size?

 

[Anders Lindman]

You did not answer my question. Why lie about the size?

If they had the Saturn V for military purposes and it was smaller than would have been needed for the Apollo mission, then it would be convenient to still use the Saturn V but lie about the real size and film the Apollo launches in slow motion, with dramatic angles, boosted sound and with altered launch pad to make it look bigger than it really was.

 

[Belz...]

No, very few people. Not even the professors in physics know that Einstein's theories are a hoax. They too only follow what gatekeeper scientists have published in prestigious scientific journals etc. A few scientific papers that endlessly are referenced.

Since you have told us that Einstein's theory is "obviously" false, why are so few people in the know ? Those professors should be able to spot the flaws in the theory, should they not ? Why are you the only one claiming that it's a hoax ? What makes you so special, especially considering your obvious, and admitted, ignorance of the subject matter ?