Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

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Hi all,

I'm wondering if EMRTC is maybe not the right place for this dust analysis since they can';t do the spectograph. Here would be what I would consider ideal:

1) Located in India so far away from any US political issues but still a country with an educated populus scienjtific infrastructure etc. Also cheap.
2) Can do a spectograph looking for aluminum and all ingredients of unexploded thermitics.
3) Can also look for exploded materials by looking for positive and negative ions.
in India
I need help finding not only the place to do all this but also exactly what to ask them to look for. Anyone have ideas on how to find a reputable dust lab in India that can find explosive materials specifically and can do several tests all in one place (or can farm it out)?

From there I would offer it up to Kevin Ryan and Richard Gage personally and see what they say. Thanks in advance if anyone can dig this up and ask the right questions to get a really good independent analysis. Then Bill is right, let the (thermitic?) chips fall where they may. If they say yes and it turns up positive, there will be other bridges to cross re chain of custody etc but we'll see if we will even cross that bridge, ever.


You're asking the wrong questions by getting too specific, too soon. Don't tell a professional how to do his job. ("Do a spectrograph ...") Tell him the end point that you want, and ask him if he can get you there. In this case, "I want to know if there is thermite in this sample."

There are professionals who look for forensic evidence of thermite. They work at accredited forensic laboratories around the US (& the world), and are called into service if the FBI or a local fire department suspects that arson has occurred using thermite.

The tests that Harrit, et al, conducted are NOT conclusive for thermite. Those tests will tell you the elements, but not the compounds. It is useless to know that there is iron, oxygen & aluminum in some sample, because those elements are so ubiquitous. They occur in countless samples that are not thermite.

You can find analytical laboratories around the country by looking on "thomasnet.com". I'd type in "chemical analysis", then select "services".

Call up a few. Ask to speak directly to the chemists that perform the tests. Not the people that answer the phones. Surprisingly, you can almost always do this.

Ask them if there is any DEFINITIVE, UNQUALIFIED test that they can perform to unquestionably identify thermite in a sample. They will tell you "yes, x-ray diffraction". This test will give you both the elements AND their compounds.

Then look for a lab that does this test (as I said, usually for arson investigation).

How incompetent is it of Harrit, Jones, Ryan et al, to reinvent their own, nondeterministic test, rather than to simply use one that is readily available, done by professionals & cheap?

BTW, Harrit knows about this argument. It was brought to his attention when I posted it in a BBC thread. His basic response: "tfk's right, but clearly he's politically motivated."

Don't trust me, Chris.

Do this yourself. It'll only take about 30 minutes to call 3 independent labs. Deal only with professionals.


tom
 
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Thanks Tom,
This is exactly the kind of advice I need. I'll do it next week. I know when I am not qualified to go forward on a project alone and this is one of those times. I'll follow your instructions to the letter.
 
Great.

BTW, if you call one lab & they tell you that they don't do x-ray diffraction (or whatever test they recommend), simply ask them if they can recommend another lab that does do it. Most of them are very familiar with the other labs around, and since it doesn't cut into their business, they're pretty obliging with that info.

I'm looking forward to hearing if your results match mine. IIRC, the quote for XRD tests were in the neighborhood of $120/sample (if I ground it up into fine particles) and $150/sample if they prepared it.

Of course, the only path to take if you want unassailable results is to let them grind it.


Good luck.


tom
 
Great.

BTW, if you call one lab & they tell you that they don't do x-ray diffraction (or whatever test they recommend), simply ask them if they can recommend another lab that does do it. Most of them are very familiar with the other labs around, and since it doesn't cut into their business, they're pretty obliging with that info.

I'm looking forward to hearing if your results match mine. IIRC, the quote for XRD tests were in the neighborhood of $120/sample (if I ground it up into fine particles) and $150/sample if they prepared it.

Of course, the only path to take if you want unassailable results is to let them grind it.


Good luck.


tom

Certainly a fools errand.

I guess you've heard by now that the FEMA, NIST and other 9/11 reports were ghost written by the WWE.
 
Yeah sure, natural complete destruction of THREE HUGE SKYSCRAPERs. In less than 20 visual seconds each.

So glad you don't care that neoconservatives loyal to Israel subvert America.

Can you elaborate what your argument is, please? Premise, Reasoning, Conclusion?
It seems to be this:
Premise: Three huge skyscrapers collapsed in less than 20 seconds each
Reasoning: I cannot believe that huge skyscrapers can collapse in 20 seconds due to the natural results of structural damage imparted by planes and collapsing neighboring skyscrapers, and unfought fires. The only alternative to crashes and fires is intentional demolition using explosives and/or incendiaries.
Conclusion: The towers were intenionally demolished

I highlighted the elements of the reaoning that are fallacious. Could you please correct the argument if it is not a fair rendering of what you hold to be true?
 
Certainly a fools errand.

I guess you've heard by now that the FEMA, NIST and other 9/11 reports were ghost written by the WWE.
This will prove to be a fool's errand if Harrit, Jones, Ryan et all refuse to release their dust samples to an independent lab for testing. Many debunkers probably agree with you that it IS a fool's errand. Except for one thing. Their refusal will tell the world something too.

If they release the samples and the $150 test is done, it will move the research forward, whatever the results. If the test turns up positive, there will still be chain of custody issues.

What does WWE stand for? You know me, when I don't know I always ask. It's how I learn.
 
This will prove to be a fool's errand if Harrit, Jones, Ryan et all refuse to release their dust samples to an independent lab for testing. Many debunkers probably agree with you that it IS a fool's errand. Except for one thing. Their refusal will tell the world something too.

If they release the samples and the $150 test is done, it will move the research forward, whatever the results. If the test turns up positive, there will still be chain of custody issues.

What does WWE stand for? You know me, when I don't know I always ask. It's how I learn.

There will have to be negotiations and a system developed to keep everybody honest Chris. Any sample will have to be split in three for instance and at least one sealed and left with a notary public. One for Jones and Co and one for you to test. I would suggest doing at least two tests with different labs simultaneously and Jones and Harrit sitting in throughout one of the tests and signing off at each step. This one should be videod from start to finish.

Sound like a way to go ?
 
There will have to be negotiations and a system developed to keep everybody honest Chris. Any sample will have to be split in three for instance and at least one sealed and left with a notary public. One for Jones and Co and one for you to test. I would suggest doing at least two tests with different labs simultaneously and Jones and Harrit sitting in throughout one of the tests and signing off at each step. This one should be videod from start to finish.

Sound like a way to go ?

Is that the way Harrit and Jones did it?
Which notary did they use, and which debunkers did they have on their side to check off every step?

But if this is not the Harrit and Jones way, why have you never rejected theor results on account of their not taking this golden path that you propose?
 
Is that the way Harrit and Jones did it?
Which notary did they use, and which debunkers did they have on their side to check off every step?

But if this is not the Harrit and Jones way, why have you never rejected theor results on account of their not taking this golden path that you propose?

I'd be happy for some OCT scientists to sit in and sign off too. Live transmitted video would .be excellent too and more likely to convince whoever watches. wherever the chips might fall..
 
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I'd be happy for some OCT scientists to sit in and sign off too.

Which question answered that? None of those that I asked you. Would you mind answering my questions, instead of one that I didn't ask?

Is that the way Harrit and Jones did it?
Which notary did they use, and which debunkers did they have on their side to check off every step?

But if this is not the Harrit and Jones way, why have you never rejected theor results on account of their not taking this golden path that you propose?
 
Which question answered that? None of those that I asked you. Would you mind answering my questions, instead of one that I didn't ask?

Is that the way Harrit and Jones did it?
Which notary did they use, and which debunkers did they have on their side to check off every step?

But if this is not the Harrit and Jones way, why have you never rejected theor results on account of their not taking this golden path that you propose?

Forget that for now. This is much more current and important
 
There will have to be negotiations and a system developed to keep everybody honest Chris. Any sample will have to be split in three for instance and at least one sealed and left with a notary public. One for Jones and Co and one for you to test. I would suggest doing at least two tests with different labs simultaneously and Jones and Harrit sitting in throughout one of the tests and signing off at each step. This one should be videod from start to finish.

Sound like a way to go ?


With Harrit and Jones there, the bolded part is going to be a problem.


(FYI Chris - WWE is "World Wrestling Entertainment")
 
This will prove to be a fool's errand if Harrit, Jones, Ryan et all refuse to release their dust samples to an independent lab for testing. Many debunkers probably agree with you that it IS a fool's errand. Except for one thing. Their refusal will tell the world something too.

If they release the samples and the $150 test is done, it will move the research forward, whatever the results. If the test turns up positive, there will still be chain of custody issues.

What does WWE stand for? You know me, when I don't know I always ask. It's how I learn.

I'll chip in $20 for the test.
 
There will have to be negotiations and a system developed to keep everybody honest Chris. Any sample will have to be split in three for instance and at least one sealed and left with a notary public. One for Jones and Co and one for you to test. I would suggest doing at least two tests with different labs simultaneously and Jones and Harrit sitting in throughout one of the tests and signing off at each step. This one should be videod from start to finish.

Sound like a way to go ?
A couple things here... First, I knew WWE was the wrestling group but I thought surely Clayton couldn't mean THAT. I assumed he meant World Wide Evil or something...

Bill's ideas are actually a good first step. I'm going to use Tom's suggestion about asking chemists how to test for burned and unburned thermites and thermates in the dust without telling them how to do their job. I will get several answers, as he suggested, then contact Richard Gage directly.

Using Tom's template for the dust samples, I will first share the results of my research with Richard Gage and then ask Richard (and eventually Kevin Ryan etc): what would it take for you to release a dust sample to an independent lab so that you would trust the integrity of the results? I could be the intermediary for such an action or not. Find out what THEY would need to believe in the integrity of the results. Make sure those conditions would not spoil the results of the testing itself but otherwise ask THEM and act accordingly.

I will say this: I have fairly high trust in the integrity of the dust samples. I am pretty close in to how they handled the chain of custody issues. For example, they rejected some samples because the owners wouldn't sign an affidavit attesting to the purity of the samples etc. The whole dust transfer process was witnessed and the bags carefully sealed. There could be lying involved, but if they had slipped thermitic material into their samples, the test results would have been conclusive and they were not.

We'll take this one slow step at a time. And thanks for the offers of money. Another bridge we may or may not ever cross. Remember, Kevin Ryan has in no way said yes to my request to release these dust samples. My best avenue will be via Richard Gage, so I will be able to start that process in mid-October after my research is done (see TFK's posts above).
 
Chris, why do you think that Richard Gage is the man to go to? He doesn't have any samples afaik, isn't a science man, and has never done any 9/11 research of his own. How would he know what it takes to have a sample properly analysed at an independent lab?
 
Chris, why do you think that Richard Gage is the man to go to? He doesn't have any samples afaik, isn't a science man, and has never done any 9/11 research of his own. How would he know what it takes to have a sample properly analysed at an independent lab?
True. But I have the best connection with Gage. And BTW he does have some of the dust, but that is not the dust that would be used. Since I have already broached the subject with Kevin Ryan, Richard would seem to be a good person from a trust-building point of view (and yes, I am sincere in my desire to see this done and will not do anything "unfair" in this matter).
 
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