Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Dougm]

Still not sure about the Jessica Rabbit bit. Does that make Mignini the Grinch? At least that's a seasonal cartoon thats on every year. All the same I agree the defense was better but it's not exactly fighting fire with fire. Guess we have to trust them though !

I think they did a good job. Was it the correct job for the situation? I guess we will find out.

 

[JREF2010]

http://perugiashock.com/

a new article from Frank Sfarzo

 

[Dougm]

This is interesting, and this "Italian Law Expert" gives a more measured view of what might happen, vs. what has been reported by the more hysterical media. Don't know if Mignini could keep her in Italy if acquittals happen, but I don't doubt he will try.

http://www.nwcn.com/video?id=130888418&sec=551977

 

[Onofarar]

Onofarar,

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Press trying to square Comodi's comment that there is no extradition agreement between Italy and USA. Is there an accord?

If she really did say this, it either shows:
a) A deliberate and malignant attempt to mislead the jurors

or

b) A stupidity and ignorance so deep, that I wouldn't entrust the cleaning of my loo to this woman (or any of her colleagues).

I have said for some time that Comodi is the more devious prosecutor - most of the sneaky and underhanded stuff has been her doing - the phantom noon phone call, the faked documents, etc.

Of course there is an extradition treaty between Italy and the USA. The problem (and the prosecutors know this full well) they have to have sufficient evidence to have an extradition request honored.

 

[Dougm]

Still waiting for any one of the hundreds of journalists in Perugia to come up with a picture of that jet.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/213661/Amanda-Knox-s-jet-deal-/

 

[RWVBWL]

http://perugiashock.com/

a new article from Frank Sfarzo

Hi JREF2010,
Glad I checked, I was gonna post this too!
I've always thought that Frank Sfarzo walks a very fine line, as he does so once again in this posting. For it appears that he can't write that he seems to feel that evidence was planted in this case we discuss.

Remember I always said that on December 18 they were too perfect, the inspection was even broadcast live: it looked like they knew something important would have been found.Finally the defense starts considering these things! Even if they are written only here and in English…

The scientific police asked on Decemebr 13 to reenter the house to photograph the footprints from another angle (actually they said to make the luminol, indeed they will make the luminol). Raffaele’s lawyer Donatella Donati said loud and clear that was an excuse. The real reason was to go take the piece of bra, that they knew it was there.

In the meanwhile, they kept asking to test “Raffaele’s footrpint” (another lexical mistake, of course, since the footprint wasn’t Raffaele’s) but the preliminary judge would always refuse it. Why?

Why Matteini refused to test the footprint? Why Massei refused the DNA review? Or to test the semen stain?
They should explain to us why they refuse to perform tests that they know may exonerate the defendant. They should explain to us why they violate the law so evidently.

By the way, the request kept being refused. So Francesco Sollecito decided to publicly show that “Raffaele’s footprint”, at the time only proof against Raffaele.
Together with his consultant Francesco Vinci, papa Sollecito demonstrated on TV that the footprint wasn’t Raffaele’s.
Next day, Donati recalled, the DNA on the bra clasp was found!

Do you start to understand what happened? Think the most imaginative thing about knife and bra clasp… Yes, that’s what happened.

Hey Yeti101,
Yesterday, in a post that I wrote to you I said that it is always good to learn something new
and guess what, I did so just a moment ago:
The bra clasp collection was "broadcast live, it looked like they knew something important would have been found." Ah ha, like someones DNA?

 

[Onofarar]

This is why I have concerns about "expert" testimony/ All too often these people will say anything for money. They are just like the whores selling their wares on the street corner. Worse actually because at least the street whores make no secret of what they are doing.

 

[Ammonitida]

Hi JREF2010,
Glad I checked, I was gonna post this too!
I've always thought that Frank Sfarzo walks a very fine line, as he does so once again in this posting. For it appears that he can't write that he seems to feel that evidence was planted in this case we discuss.





Hey Yeti101,
Yesterday, in a post that I wrote to you I said that it is always good to learn something new and guess what, I did so just a moment ago:
"The bra clasp collection was broadcast live, it looked like they knew something important would have been found."
Ah, like someones DNA?

Conti mentioned that at least 8 genetic profiles were found on the clasp. I now wonder who were the 8 unknown contributors.

 

[RandyN]

What is amazing is that they have echoed all the rediculous gilter talking points, like "oh yeah, well if the trial was held in the US, she would be facing the death penalty", etc. It seems like they can't talk about the actual case, because there is none. I thought the role of the PM is to uncover the truth, not beat a dead horse when no one is buying the story anymore.

These arguments always remind me of school yard taunts as a child. Ha ha, I beat you to the finish line!! Oh yeah, well you're ugly! Oh yeah, well you dress funny!

And to think this is a murder case.

I’m catching up slowly here....

I think the reason we are hearing all the ridiculous guilter talking points in the prosecution case is that our old friend Yummi or Machavelli on some sites, today admitted that he speaks directly with Mignini...I’m not a good searcher but I came across it on someone’s link (I think Surfin, Sharkin Randys) over to PMS...errrrr ... PMF.

I find that assertion creditable because all the prosecutions talking points closely follow the odd path of “logic” used at both PMF and TJMK. Right down to the silly jet and death sentence in USA claims…I actually think Mignini has gone so far off track that he has lost it! He is using the guilter sites and the likes of geniuses like Yummi, Kermit, Pervert Quinell, and Miss Piggy Ganong…Start looking at the arguments and comparing….It all fits…

Lets start a list of crazy ideas from PMF/TJMK that now have come into the trial.

I’ll start it off with these gems

1. The Supreme Court Decision says three committed this crime….Mignini said this in court.
2. They must prove when the contamination occurred…………… Comodi gets this one.
3. Mixed blood………………………………...................................Mignini again.
4. Jet waiting ………………………………......................................Prosecutor Mignini
5. Race card….poor black guy getting stuck with charges………… Mignini


These all come from the sewer of PMF/TJMK.

Isn’t it strange that during this whole appeal the prosecution stuck closely to emotional items and rarely if ever mentioned any facts. They want us to think of Toto as creditable but they fail to even mention how he fits into proving that the defendants murdered anyone. That’s because if Toto’s story were actually true per the first trial then he provides a perfect alibi for the defendants as he states the lovers were in Grimana from 9 til midnight…which makes it impossible for them to then murder anyone during these hours.

No knife, no DNA, entries into a sealed crime scene…(check out DanO’s BLN photo op…with the open door sealed with caution tape..) WTF is that all about?

As far as trials go …even a Supreme Court decision upholding a conviction of murder can still be overturned. In fact it is a case exactly like this that Hellmann is most famous for . In 2000 he was part of a 3 judge panel that overturned a murder conviction that had been confirmed by the SC….and so as our friend Pilot likes to say….It aint over…tillll

 

[RWVBWL]

Conti mentioned that at least 8 genetic profiles were found on the clasp. I now wonder who were the 8 unknown contributors.

Cops maybe?
Get the DNA samples of the cops and let C+V run 'em up against the bra clasp results.

But that'll never happen,
heck they didn't even test a possible semen stain found, IIRC, near Meredith's genitalia...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Griffin v. California

i don't know about italy but in the UK the jury can take into consideration a defendant remaining silent and that's usually not in a good way. Knox testified I would have too. Let the truth set you free but of course someone whos guilty might be afraid they slip up or ramble revealing their guilt.

Knoxs performance wasn't too great to say the least maybe she should have done what raf did?

yeti101,

In the United States the prosecutor may not bring up the defendant's choosing not to testify. IIRC, this is called the Griffin rule from Griffin v. California. We have had this discussion here before.

 

[RWVBWL]

I’m catching up slowly here....

I think the reason we are hearing all the ridiculous guilter talking points in the prosecution case is that our old friend Yummi or Machavelli on some sites, today admitted that he speaks directly with Mignini... I’m not a good searcher but I came across it on someone’s link (I think Surfin, Sharkin Randys) over to PMS...errrrr ... PMF.

I find that assertion creditable because all the prosecutions talking points closely follow the odd path of “logic” used at both PMF and TJMK. Right down to the silly jet and death sentence in USA claims…I actually think Mignini has gone so far off track that he has lost it! He is using the guilter sites and the likes of geniuses like Yummi, Kermit, Pervert Quinell, and Miss Piggy Ganong…Start looking at the arguments and comparing….It all fits…

Lets start a list of crazy ideas from PMF/TJMK that now have come into the trial.

I’ll start it off with these gems

1. The Supreme Court Decision says three committed this crime….Mignini said this in court.
2. They must prove when the contamination occurred…………… Comodi gets this one.
3. Mixed blood………………………………...................................Mignini again.
4. Jet waiting ………………………………......................................Prosecutor Mignini
5. Race card….poor black guy getting stuck with charges………… Mignini


These all come from the sewer of PMF/TJMK.

Isn’t it strange that during this whole appeal the prosecution stuck closely to emotional items and rarely if ever mentioned any facts. They want us to think of Toto as creditable but they fail to even mention how he fits into proving that the defendants murdered anyone. That’s because if Toto’s story were actually true per the first trial then he provides a perfect alibi for the defendants as he states the lovers were in Grimana from 9 til midnight…which makes it impossible for them to then murder anyone during these hours.

No knife, no DNA, entries into a sealed crime scene…(check out DanO’s BLN photo op…with the open door sealed with caution tape..) WTF is that all about?

As far as trials go …even a Supreme Court decision upholding a conviction of murder can still be overturned. In fact it is a case exactly like this that Hellmann is most famous for . In 2000 he was part of a 3 judge panel that overturned a murder conviction that had been confirmed by the SC….and so as our friend Pilot likes to say….It aint over…tillll

Hi RandyN!
Glad that linked help!
I had read this too just a short while ago in a post at PMF.org and was gonna post something about our own Machiavelli, -(who had publicly stated that he was known as Yummi from PMF), being in communication with Mignini. Machiavelli knows Prosecutor Mignini?!?

This was something I disagreed about with Mignini. I also spoke with him about it. In my opinion trivial motive and sexual violence are two aggravating circumstances that should not be added to each other; they both have a logical implication on motive and as such, a further aggravation due to motive would be like counting the aggravation twice.
I am not convinced by a few of Mignini and Comodi's arguments. I do not subscribe to mentioning a sovreignity/national argument for example. I do not subscribe entirely on their legal arguments about the implications of Aviello and Alessi testimonies.
I do not subscribe to a few assessments of Comodi on the physical evidence.
I note the semen stain has disappeared from defense arguments.

Heck, I got my only infraction ever here on JREF by wondering simply where Machiavelli had disappeared to awhile back, so I was a little worried about mentioning this, I did not wanna get suspended or banned for discussing a fellow JREF member who might just happen work with the prosecution in Perugia, Italy. But since you brought it up...

Now it possibly seems like he was hangin' out in the trenches, so to say.

I wonder who he really is? A collegue of Maresca, Pacelli, or even Biscotti?
Didn't 1 of the lawyers even hug Mignini over something in this case we discuss?
Strange twists in this high profile case...

 

[Justinian2]

My first inclination years ago was to believe that the prosecution team from Italy was using web sites to spew forth their venomous propaganda. Then people that seemed to know what they were talking about persuaded me that my instinct was wrong.

If these sites were actually influenced by the Italian propaganda machine, it sure would make sense. It would also explain why they were accusing Amanda's family of hiring propagandists.

The CIA and/or NSA should investigate Mignini, the team of prosecution lawyers, PMF and TJMK.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not sure of what you mean

The overall impression I get from those who support Amanda (poor Raffaele doesn’t seems to get a look in), is some kind of strange need to put Meredith and her family down, whilst elevating Amanda to one stage short of beautification.

CoulsdonUK,

Can you be specific and give a few examples? Would it include RoseMontague, who (jokingly) talks about Raffaele and the witch girl? Would it include me? I refer to this as the Knox/Sollecito case and made sure that Sollecito's name was in the thread tag. If saying that all four flatmates smoked cannabis, drank lightly and had boyfriends (as I have done repeatedly) is putting Meredith down, then I am surely guilty. If you mean something else, then I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Onofarar]

What's amazing is the percentage of their time in court that the prosecution and civil attorneys spend talking about anything except the evidence in the trial.

They would have nothing to talk about otherwise.

 

[Ammonitida]

This is why I have concerns about "expert" testimony/ All too often these people will say anything for money. They are just like the whores selling their wares on the street corner. Worse actually because at least the street whores make no secret of what they are doing.

The worst expert testimony in this case has to be the guy who made a probable identification of the bathmat print to RS. A blood drop at the tip of the toe print was for no valid reason assumed by him to be part of RS's "hammer toe". And today, they stressed that because RS's second toe never appears on ink prints, the bathmat print is most likely his since the second toe doesn't appear on there either. Nevermind that his other toes did in fact show up on the ink print while on the bathmat print only the big toe appears. Nevermind that his ink print was made on a hard surface whereas the bathmat print was made on a fluffy surface. I would think that a fluffy surface would better catch his "bloody" second toe. And that's assuming that blood was even on those other toes. Even by the prosecution's reasoning, the big toe print is incomplete suggesting that blood did not cover the whole toe. Similar could be said of the other toes which makes "the second toe doesn't appear" issue inconsistent with their other assertion.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not pretty in pink

Are you saying that only one side is trying to sway public opinion? I certainly hope not. The prosecution is doing it's job.

lionking,

Were the police and the prosecution doing their jobs when they released the pink bathroom photo? When they released the story about a bleach receipt that did not exist?

 

[Onofarar]

I think it shows that the song is over, the fat lady is singing.

Over here we have a game called 'football'--not to be confused with the more primitive form it was derived from which bears the same name elsewhere. The forth quarter, the last, can often be the most important one. Other times, it's...not. You see the second-stringers playing because you're ahead so far there's no need to expose the starters to injury, plus you don't want to be seen as 'running it up.'

Maybe there's a little of that going on now, so that's why Bongiorno is in Rome and her understudy sings her role...

After all, (to use a baseball analogy) she (GB) pretty much knocked the ball out of the park earlier in the week. Why not let her sidekick have some of the limelight.

 

[Justinian2]

Even though Casey Anthony was actually guilty of something - some negligence in the child under her care or even negligent homicide or worse - I don't believe she was bullied and abused the way Amanda was. Furthermore, I don't believe she had web sites like TJMK or PMF aligned against her.

The True Justice for Caylee Anthony forum is two pages in length.

I know very little about her case, so I would appreciate a little help.

I've started a thread on the subject of PMF and TJMK at: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7630959#post7630959

 

[Ammonitida]

Cops maybe?
Get the DNA samples of the cops and let C+V run 'em up against the bra clasp results.

But that'll never happen,
heck they didn't even test a possible semen stain found, IIRC, near Meredith's genitalia...

Conti ought to perform the tests the "Stefanoni way" -- look at genetic profiles of the cops and then with bias, construct profiles out of that DNA soup to match each one of them.