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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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No, it goes further than that.

Though, frankly, your callous remark doesn't.

Unlikely.

If this had been an overweight 40 something guy, it would be a non-story. Exactly the same as the Casey Anthony thing and the girl in Aruba.

Its just today's society, that's all. Nothing callous about that remark at all. If you can't handle accepting what you already know deep down, I'm sorry. But its the truth. If she weren't a hot 20-something, we'd never know about this.

Never.
 
So, I can understand the emotional need of Ms. Kercher's family to try to re-brand Meredith as virginal and saintly, even though neither is true, but this kind of thing has no place in a court of law, and it would be absolutely wrong for them to attempt to influence a court by remonstrating such in a criminal trial.


I would totally understand the Kerchers taking this attitude, but it's not them we're seeing it from primarily, it's the PMF community. That forum regularly idolises Meredith as some sort of amazing combination of saint and super-genius. This then extends to cover the Kerchers themselves, who are described as being virtual deities in their dignity and restraint and noble pain.

Stephanie letting Maresca write a letter to suit his own ends and then putting her name to his text doesn't get a mention, for example.

I only know that it has been reported that Meredith's mother will go on the stand and look the jury in the eye and more or less dare them not to find for guilt, life sentences, solitary confinement and all. Because she herself is so bereft. I don't even know if Hellman has any power to stop it - it may be a right of the victim's mother, just as sharia law gave the woman who was blinded the right to pour acid in the eyes of her assailant, personally. (That woman showed mercy at the last minute - it appears she was only into psychological torture and under the circumstances I can hardly blame her.)

On the other hand, these reports could be as true as the executive jet and the multi-million-dollar media manipulation campaign.

Rolfe.
 
Mrs. Kercher is on renal dialysis. This is non-trivial. I understand Mr. Kercher is recovering from a stroke. I seriously doubt that driving there is practical, even if the sons could do the driving. I'm not even sure I would trust Ryanair with a dialysis patient, not with their reputation.

The family needs help, and special accommodation. However, if Mr. Mignini is concerned, and knows they aren't receiving the help they should be getting, why doesn't he organise it himself? I'm sure his PA could sort it all out with just one word from him.

Rolfe.

As sure as the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning, the Kerchers will be in that courthouse on Monday. And of course I fully advocate their right to be so. Moreover, if I believed for one second that they could not be there for pecuniary reasons I would make a donation to help them.

This is just more of Mignini's and Maresca's disgusting, emotionally manipulative horse puckey.
 
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The way this is worded gets one nervous:

Kerchers await appeals verdict against Amanda Knox

PERUGIA -- Meredith Kercher would have been 25. The British student would have finished her degree at Leeds University and perhaps been preparing for another Halloween, a day she loved.

Instead, her family awaits an appeals verdict expected Monday against former roommate Amanda Knox, of Seattle, who was convicted along with her Italian ex-boyfriend of murdering Kercher in 2007.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=8374777
 
Unlikely.

If this had been an overweight 40 something guy, it would be a non-story. Exactly the same as the Casey Anthony thing and the girl in Aruba.

Its just today's society, that's all. Nothing callous about that remark at all. If you can't handle accepting what you already know deep down, I'm sorry. But its the truth. If she weren't a hot 20-something, we'd never know about this.

Never.


You want to see the reams and acres some of us have been writing about the wrongful conviction of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi?

m-2009.jpg


The only reason it's not all over this forum is that certain people have insisted that discussion should take place in the CT forum, where they also wanted to send this one at one time.

Rolfe.
 
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As sure as the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning, the Kerchers will be in that courthouse on Monday. And of course I fully advocate their right to be so. Moreover, if I believed for one second that they could not be there for pecuniary reasons I would make a donation to help them.

This is just more of Mignini's and Maresca's disgusting, emotionally manipulative horse puckey.


Nail on head. All of it.

Rolfe.
 
What I said. Which was nothing like what you typed.

Rolfe.
Let’s deal with what has happened. Amanda didn’t come home before Meredith. Amanda has not been brutally murdered and has not lay in her grave for the past 4 years, I am not being emotive I believe this are facts that even you can agree with?

The overall impression I get from those who support Amanda (poor Raffaele doesn’t seems to get a look in), is some kind of strange need to put Meredith and her family down, whilst elevating Amanda to one stage short of beautification.

I still await your enlightenment.
 
I believe that the Kerchers are completely sincere in belief that Amanda and Raffaele were significantly involved in Meredith's murder. Believing that, it is understandably difficult for them to watch this process and see all of the attention that, in their minds, is being given to their daughter's murderers.

What information they may have given that didn't make it into the trial isn't clear and how that may be affecting them.

My problem is with the professionals concerned with this, their lawyers and the prosecutors. I don't believe they have said publicly that they are having trouble booking flights and if I'm not mistaken they have plenty of time to go by land if need be. The time to drive there is 17 hours.

Others have probably checked and it seems there are plenty of seats available on Ryanair.

The symbol for Perugia is PEG - funny.

I think there has been a lot of misinformation reported on all sides in this case, and everything has to be looked at with a skeptical eye. That said, I immediately thought the idea that the verdict was moved to Monday because the Kerchers could not get plane tickets was false.

My comment has nothing to do with the Kerchers themselves, just that the trial has been in session for months, and the dates have been moving around. Any coming to Perugia is something that, I assume they have planned for some time, just like the Knox and Sollecito families, and all those journalists. The idea they can't get there makes little sense. It might make a little bit of sense that Hellmann moved the day up at the last minute, and that is not convenient for them, and in that case, it is good he moved it back. But saying they can't get plane tickets? I don't believe that.
 
Let’s deal with what has happened. Amanda didn’t come home before Meredith. Amanda has not been brutally murdered and has not lay in her grave for the past 4 years, I am not being emotive I believe this are facts that even you can agree with?

The overall impression I get from those who support Amanda (poor Raffaele doesn’t seems to get a look in), is some kind of strange need to put Meredith and her family down, whilst elevating Amanda to one stage short of beautification.

I still await your enlightenment.


I'm not particularly interested in re-typing my post for your enlightenment, since you appear unable to understand it as it stands. Even though a number of other posters have had no such trouble.

You might however note that I pointed out that Meredith and Amanda were very similar girls, with a lot in common. All the sex, drugs, alcohol and partying habits that were held against Amanda, Meredith also indulged in.

Noting that two people are similar is not the same thing as denigrating one and beatifying the other.

Rolfe.
 
You want to see the reams and acres some of us have been writing about the wrongful conviction of Abdelbaset al-Megrahi?

[qimg]http://www.vetpath.co.uk/lockerbie/m-2009.jpg[/qimg]

The only reason it's not all over this forum is that certain people have insisted that discussion should take place in the CT forum, where they also wanted to send this one at one time.

Rolfe.

Off topic. This thread is about convicted murderer Amanda Knox.
 
Me thinks you are so invested in what Rolfe was criticizing that you don't see what he was actually saying. The post was about the PMF lionization of the Kerchers. Not about them. It was about what is being written about them, and how weird it is.

Rolfe's a she.

Tell me then, why did she refer to them in the same way (sainted etc) and what have the Kerchers to be embarrassed about?
 
Nail on head.

I've seen this weird phenomenon happen in my own family many years ago and I still don't quite understand it.

My sister died when she was 21 and I was 20. My sister was an awesome person and my closest friend since we were old enough to talk as we were only 11 months apart and I skipped a grade early on, so we were also in the same grade, same classes, shared a room, shared our group of friends, etc., ever since childhood. My sister was a normal person with all of the usual virtues and vices. She was lovely, smart, sophisticated, well-rounded, funny, intelligent, and well-travelled for the time and her age. She also smoked occasionally, drank occasionally, partied with the best of us, while also imparting some words of wisdom to me, her younger sister, along the way. She was very much liked, loved, and admired by peers, friends, and family.

But after she died of ovarian cancer (which was pretty rare for someone so young, and which had absolutely nothing to do with occasionally smoking or drinking and otherwise leading a normal lifestyle), my mother suddenly had a case of selective amnesia in which she would insist that my sister never smoked, never drank, never swore, never did anything other than be a virginal saint-like entity. This was complete BS and it seemed bizarre to me that my own mother would think, let alone say, such things. To me, it was as though my mother could not acknowledge my sister's true existence because my mother suddenly thought that thinking my sister anything less than virginal and angelic was somehow detrimental to her memory. I argued with my Mom about this a few times because, to me, it seemed wrong of my Mom to try to re-package my sister as virginal and saintly because there was absolutely nothing wrong with her as she was! She was a wonderful, caring, smart, sophisticated, funny, well-travelled, and well-rounded young woman - she didn't need what I saw as "re-branding" - but then I realized that it was just something that my Mom personally needed to believe for her own reasons, in order to deal with her own grief (a grief that I fully acknowledge I have no idea how I would deal with it if it happened to me - that being the death of one's child) so I decided to just let it go in order to give my Mom what she needed. That was all back when I was 20 - 22.

But I never forgot it, as it taught me a valuable lesson about how emotion can cloud one's judgement, and how it can result in an otherwise rational person feeling the need to erase and rewrite reality for his/her own purposes, and also how those purposes need not be nefarious but more of the self-preservation sort for emotional reasons.

So, I can understand the emotional need of Ms. Kercher's family to try to re-brand Meredith as virginal and saintly, even though neither is true, but this kind of thing has no place in a court of law, and it would be absolutely wrong for them to attempt to influence a court by remonstrating such in a criminal trial.

What do you think about the Edgardo Giobbi, behaviorial studies effect?

It's an extremely interesting field of thought; the Profilers, for example are a huge help in some investigations, and if not taken too far amazing.
I think Edgardo Giobbi took it waaay too far and over confident, hung pictures of Amanda and Raffaele on his wall-of-shame before the trial was over.

You're story was interesting , thanks for sharing it. I agree it has a huge factor in how people' respond to data and memory.
 
Amanda did mention Raffaele in her 5:45 statement. It was a vague reference to not being sure if he was with her at the cottage that night.

Vague is not good enough for me. You don't arrest people with vague. Why wait for a vague statement, just arrest the whole lot right from the start, in my opinion,

Dave
 
I think there has been a lot of misinformation reported on all sides in this case, and everything has to be looked at with a skeptical eye. That said, I immediately thought the idea that the verdict was moved to Monday because the Kerchers could not get plane tickets was false.

My comment has nothing to do with the Kerchers themselves, just that the trial has been in session for months, and the dates have been moving around. Any coming to Perugia is something that, I assume they have planned for some time, just like the Knox and Sollecito families, and all those journalists. The idea they can't get there makes little sense. It might make a little bit of sense that Hellmann moved the day up at the last minute, and that is not convenient for them, and in that case, it is good he moved it back. But saying they can't get plane tickets? I don't believe that.


I think this was pure Mignini, trying to score a point against the story about the executive jet.

I wouldn't be surprised if the travel arrangements were tricky, because of the parents' health issues. However, I seriously doubt the sudden "can't afford the fare" thing. It smells like pure theatre. Which is why I would hope the Kerchers might be a little embarrassed if they realise the posters on PMF are putting the hat round, and people who themselves have very little are prepared to make sacrifices to this end.

Rolfe.
 
Let’s deal with what has happened. Amanda didn’t come home before Meredith. Amanda has not been brutally murdered and has not lay in her grave for the past 4 years, I am not being emotive I believe this are facts that even you can agree with?

The overall impression I get from those who support Amanda (poor Raffaele doesn’t seems to get a look in), is some kind of strange need to put Meredith and her family down, whilst elevating Amanda to one stage short of beautification.

I still await your enlightenment.

Actually, I think the reason so many of us focus more on Amanda is because Raffaele is not the one being so loosely and viciously and groundlessly called names like "double-souled witch," "Luciferina," "seductress," and etc. Poor Raffaele spends much of his time suspended in a vacuum amidst this despicable calumny. I'd also note that, though it might have benefited his case *years ago*, Raffaele has never joined in in these accusations of Amanda.

If nothing else, this case has revealed a profoundly backward misogyny in Italy, and even if I believed Amanda Knox guilty, I would be incredibly offended by this. It is an absurd diminution of Western Civilization as a whole in the 21st century, for God's sake.
 
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Let’s deal with what has happened. Amanda didn’t come home before Meredith. Amanda has not been brutally murdered and has not lay in her grave for the past 4 years, I am not being emotive I believe this are facts that even you can agree with?

The overall impression I get from those who support Amanda (poor Raffaele doesn’t seems to get a look in), is some kind of strange need to put Meredith and her family down, whilst elevating Amanda to one stage short of beautification.

I still await your enlightenment.

I've only been on this thread a few days and I haven't gotten that impression at all. Indeed people regularly express sympathy for them.

I'm also (now) one of those "who support Amanda" and haven't said a thing to put down the Kerchers.

I partially agree with your comments about Raffaele, but he's not ignored, he's mentioned regularly. If anything it's the media that ignores him. Well, and the prosecution!
 
I'm not particularly interested in re-typing my post for your enlightenment, since you appear unable to understand it as it stands. Even though a number of other posters have had no such trouble.

You might however note that I pointed out that Meredith and Amanda were very similar girls, with a lot in common. All the sex, drugs, alcohol and partying habits that were held against Amanda, Meredith also indulged in.

Noting that two people are similar is not the same thing as denigrating one and beatifying the other.

Rolfe.
Ok I assume you accept that one significant difference between Amanda and Meredith is that one was brutally murdered whilst the other (Amanda, just to clarify) is appealing her conviction for the others (Meredith) murder! So in your mind what is more relevant is that they (Amanda and Meredith) had the following in common; sex, drugs, alcohol and partying habits!

Have I missed some here?
 
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Vague is not good enough for me. You don't arrest people with vague. Why wait for a vague statement, just arrest the whole lot right from the start, in my opinion,

Dave

I think it was the conflicting statements of the two which created the arrest. At first they were together all night then he says they were not and she says she's not sure if they were together or not.
 
I have to give credit where credit is due. After nearly 4 years of doing absolutely nothing to preserve the memory of Meredith Kercher or attempting to make any real effort to support Meredith's family, Perugia Murder File has now decided to take up a collection for the Kerchers.

PMF has always claimed that their mission is to preserve the memory of Meredith Kercher. If I was going to set up a web site dedicated to a murder victim I would most likely look for ways to keep the victim's memory alive such as setting up a college fund or starting a charity to help victims of violence. To this day, PMF has done absolutely nothing of the sort. There is a section on their website titled “Projects for Meredith” that is nearly empty. The only thing there is the translation of Massei. Up until now, not one member in their group could think of anything they could do to honor the person they claimed to gather for. Why? The answer to that question is clear, they don't really gather for Meredith Kercher, they gather to hate on Amanda Knox. Their actions over the past 4 years are proof of that.

Well, at least they are doing something now. It will not change who they really are but at least some good will come out of their too little too late attempt to mask their true intentions.

I hope PMF didn't finally act just because I called them on it a little while back in a post to their loyal carrier Pigeon Pilot.

Just one other thing. Does PMF honestly believe that Marriott is powerful enough to order all those journalists to Perugia? Ganong's latest blog certainly suggests it. Is there any logic in that? Just curious.
 
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