Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[smkovalinksy]

praying at JREF? what's the world coming to?

do you think your relationship with knox will continue if she's acquitted . Will you buy her book or watch a movie about it?

My prayers go to Nietzshce's unkown god. No, if she is set free, that will be enough for me.

 

[LondonJohn]

do you think any of AKs supporters could be showing signs of similar psychological phenomenon like Stockholm syndrome?

the zeel in which they not only defend her but attack the "other-side" . Being very attracted to someone can make you behave irrationally

Ahh! We're back to the intellectually-bankrupt claim of those arguing for acquittal/innocence being blinded by lust for Knox! If that's what you're reaching for now, then that's a very telling indicator of your position. Haven't you got any better arguments - whether about Knox's guilt/non-guilt (or that bloke Sollecito....), or even about why you think most of us are arguing for acquittal or innocence?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Here we go, right on cue. http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewto...69f67def0b36d4a524164684c3&start=2750#p102453

I don't suppose he'll copy-paste the actually challenging bits though.

ETA: Oh, hi Pilot!

Rolfe.

Wow you got off easy Rolfe. Apparently I'm on a tweeting crusade with Doug Bremner (I think I've tweeted him once?). Whatever I did, I must have really done something to get under his skin to make him so angry, bitter, and hateful. I don't know who that person is, but he/she certainly should seek a psychological evaluation whoever that is.

 

[theRealBob]

I would suggest that the Kerchers should have been able to find their way to Perugia in time.
And that their late appearance is a form of showmanship designed to upstage everything else going on, and take control.

All for the purpose of ruining a couple of kids lives that the cops didn't understand or like who discovered their daughters murder.

There were too many comments about irrelevancies offered by the prosecution today(what else have they got ?)
And more importantly that Hellman allowed them to go without interruption.

 

[charlatan]

That might be true, but then on the other hand you've got folk like myself, who haven't been following this case *at all* over the past however many years, start looking at the evidence this week - with no prior bias - and are frankly shocked at what we've read.

And personally I don't think she's as attractive as people seem to think. Good looking, sure, but no more than most gals. Then again, I do live in Sweden

After following this case off and on over the past four years I'm personally a little tired of seeing her face everywhere. I'm even more tired of seeing Comodi in tight pants.

 

[komponisto]

My biggest concern re confidence of acquittal is that many folk here on JREF are experts at evaluating evidence and coming to rational conclusions based on that evidence.

The evidence (or rather, utter lack of) does clearly point towards acquittal.

But JREF ain't the court.

Yes indeed, that's a very important distinction. But I was specifically talking about the court here. (For comparison, I'm roughly 99.9% confident of Knox and Sollecito's actual innocence, as contrasted to only 75% confident that they will be acquitted.)

When I said all signs point to acquittal, that included more than just Knox and Sollecito's actual innocence (which does of course count for some). It also includes the behavior of the judges up to this point (which requests they grant and don't), and the base rate of convictions being overturned.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Is it Monday yet?

The waiting is unbearable. I'm anxious about the outcome.

The pressroom thing - maybe Hellmann does not want a courthouse full of people while Amanda and Raffaele will be walking out of the court? Maybe he wants them to be outside, waiting for those two youngsters...

Again, to appoint people with cameras on faces of Amanda and Raffaele just to announce a guilty verdict, would be indeed, inhuman.

I am very anxious, too. Regarding last bolded sentence: But to Hellman, it might be viewed as the Italian Republic standing firm in the face of American pressure. Yikes, let's hope not!!!

 

[yeti101]

do you think any of the guilters could be showing signs of similar psychological phenomenon like Stockholm syndrome?

the zeel in which they not only demonize her but attack the "other-side" . Being very spiteful to someone can make you behave irrationally

yes

 

[smkovalinksy]

do you think any of AKs supporters could be showing signs of similar psychological phenomenon like Stockholm syndrome?

the zeel in which they not only defend her but attack the "other-side" . Being very attracted to someone can make you behave irrationally

Odd that you spell "fair" as "fare" and "zeal" as "zeel". I only knew one other person who did that. In any case I do not think you understand Stockholm syndrome.

 

[yeti101]

Odd that you spell "fair" as "fare" and "zeal" as "zeel". I only knew one other person who did that. In any case I do not think you understand Stockholm syndrome.

it wasn't me that started the Stockholm syndrome comparison and neither me or the person who did said it was Stockholm syndrome. We both said phenomenon similar.

That zeal is coming out again

 

[lionking]

Lionking, just what are the Kerchers coming to the appeal hearing for? I would hope it would to do something saintly and noble, such as announce they're dropping the other three suits Maresca has involved them in.

Otherwise, why are they coming? This is Amanda and Raffaele's day, not theirs. Their lawyer is telling press rumors of Amanda leaving on a jet plane, and how the Kerchers can't afford it, so why are they coming? Was that report of them staring down the jury and demanding Amanda and Raffaele's scalps just hyperbole?

I can barely believe that I am seeing this sort of stuff on this forum. Amanda and Raffaele's day? Are you really serious?

I would certainly be at the sentencing of people charged with murdering my daughter. I don't think I've seen a high profile murder case in Australia where the victim's family is not present at the verdict.

There's not really that much difference between this thread and "guilter" forums. Both sides are emotionally over-invested.

 

[icerat]

After following this case off and on over the past four years I'm personally a little tired of seeing her face everywhere. I'm even more tired of seeing Comodi in tight pants.

dammit, off to google .....

ETA: aaarrghhhhh!!!!! the pain! the pain!

 

[Grinder]

I believe that the Kerchers are completely sincere in belief that Amanda and Raffaele were significantly involved in Meredith's murder. Believing that, it is understandably difficult for them to watch this process and see all of the attention that, in their minds, is being given to their daughter's murderers.

What information they may have given that didn't make it into the trial isn't clear and how that may be affecting them.

My problem is with the professionals concerned with this, their lawyers and the prosecutors. I don't believe they have said publicly that they are having trouble booking flights and if I'm not mistaken they have plenty of time to go by land if need be. The time to drive there is 17 hours.

Others have probably checked and it seems there are plenty of seats available on Ryanair.

The symbol for Perugia is PEG - funny.

 

[bees]

There's not really that much difference between this thread other "guilter" forums. Both sides are emotionally over-invested.

There may be some emotional investment here but the difference is that here, there are plenty of people willing and able to form a rational judgement based on evidence, even if it contradicts earlier stances because that's the scientific approach: amend your conclusions when presented with better data.

 

[Grinder]

I can barely believe that I am seeing this sort of stuff on this forum. Amanda and Raffaele's day? Are you really serious?

I would certainly be at the sentencing of people charged with murdering my daughter. I don't think I've seen a high profile murder case in Australia where the victim's family is not present at the verdict.

There's not really that much difference between this thread and "guilter" forums. Both sides are emotionally over-invested.

One big difference is that all views are at least allowed here.

I've done my part to change it from the term you used to pro-guilt or PG. I hope you find that less offensive.

There is no doubt that many are over invested - my SO certainly is really really tired of hearing about this case.

I do think that the emotions of losing a child will affect how one thinks of the case. I'm not sure what involvement Amanda and Raf may have had but I'm sure that the prosecution hasn't done an adequate job of proving guilt beyond a reasonable. The Kerchers could be almost as angry with PLE as pro innocence people are. They just can't say anything about it.

I'm somewhat surprised that no british media company has offered to pay expenses and fly them to Perugia.

Murdoch should have done it. He needs some good press and he owns most of the media, funny that.

 

[samba]

Multi-million dollar PR

If the Knox family did spend millions of dollars for PR (I don't believe for one minute that they did), then they got ripped off. I'm still amazed that when I see any media coverage (be it newspaper, TV, etc) of this trial, it's the same old things hashed out. 3/4 of any article talks about them being arrested in a sex-game-gone-bad. The other 1/4 of the article now mentions the dissed DNA results. There's usually about one sentence devoted to that other guy...Rudy Guede...where they say that he was also found guilty.

This week was particularly frustrating. On the open day of the defense arguments, almost every news outlet reporting on the trial had the Jessica Rabbit headline. They paid millions of dollars for this?? Is it any wonder that to the casual follower of this trial, AK & RS are considered guilty?

 

[Rolfe]

I don't believe they have said publicly that they are having trouble booking flights and if I'm not mistaken they have plenty of time to go by land if need be. The time to drive there is 17 hours.

Others have probably checked and it seems there are plenty of seats available on Ryanair.

Mrs. Kercher is on renal dialysis. This is non-trivial. I understand Mr. Kercher is recovering from a stroke. I seriously doubt that driving there is practical, even if the sons could do the driving. I'm not even sure I would trust Ryanair with a dialysis patient, not with their reputation.

The family needs help, and special accommodation. However, if Mr. Mignini is concerned, and knows they aren't receiving the help they should be getting, why doesn't he organise it himself? I'm sure his PA could sort it all out with just one word from him.

Rolfe.

 

[smkovalinksy]

If the Knox family did spend millions of dollars for PR (I don't believe for one minute that they did), then they got ripped off. I'm still amazed that when I see any media coverage (be it newspaper, TV, etc) of this trial, it's the same old things hashed out. 3/4 of any article talks about them being arrested in a sex-game-gone-bad. The other 1/4 of the article now mentions the dissed DNA results. There's usually about one sentence devoted to that other guy...Rudy Guede...where they say that he was also found guilty.

This week was particularly frustrating. On the open day of the defense arguments, almost every news outlet reporting on the trial had the Jessica Rabbit headline. They paid millions of dollars for this?? Is it any wonder that to the casual follower of this trial, AK & RS are considered guilty?

Yes, while i understood the analogy she was utilizing, it did not make for a great headline.

 

[AmyStrange]

No matter how you twist it, Amanda DID make a mistatement on the night of November 5th, and while I do GUARANTEE that they will be acquitted of ALL the other charges:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7619778#post7619778

the charge of slandering Patrick may stick, but ONLY if Hellmann isn't half the critical thinker that I believe he is.

Lumumba's troubles started not because of Amanda's statements, but because ILE went out and arrested him before they even did an investigation.

If Amanda's statement was what got them all arrested, then why was Raffaele arrested? He's not even mentioned in Amanda's statement.

I wouldn't put it past the ILE to ask Raffaele to write a statement (for the record) about what happened Halloween night, and then asked him to sign it, then ran over to Amanda and told her "HAHA!!! We've got you now witch",

Dave

 

[Rolfe]

If there really was a PR supertanker, we'd be hearing all about the burglar-turned-rapist who killed Meredith. We'd be hearing a lot more than we do hear about the circumstances of the original arrest, and the reasons for it. We'd be hearing about the mistakes the cops made, and the lies they told.

None of that is in the articles.

What seems to have happened is that the original vicious vilification of Amanda has given way to some slightly more balanced reporting about her personally. This is seen by the guilters as outrageous, because they believe the OTT vilification is the only proper way to report about her. So this must be a big, paid-for media blitz.

None of the journalists reporting about the PR supertanker ever reports having been offered money themselves to do a whitewash job on Amanda, or to have heard from anyone else who was. Funny that.

Rolfe.