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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Jury can be in no doubt what Meredith Kercher's family's legal team would like them to decide. Influential. #amandaknox
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
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Andrea Vogt
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca:"When you look in the eyes of the mama, sister and brother of #meredith Monday, I ask you to confirm the truth" #amandaknox

What is going on here? This is really really egregious and dangerous.
 
Rolfe said:
I think their problem is essentially rooted in their closed-community mentality. I read their discussions when the C&V report came out, and they were absolutely desperate to discredit the report. They ran around in their bumbling amateur fashion trying to pick holes in it, and came up mainly with criticisms of the reference list. Which I didn't see being raised in court at all. They also decided that C&V were academics with no practical knowledge of what they were talking about, and that the DNA was there anyway so it didn't matter.

They allowed nobody into their little group to present a contrary view about the laughable video of the evidence collection, or even to remind them that C&V were the court-appointed experts and their report was in fact absolutely damning. They decided the report was discredited, and that was that.

Then, in court, of course the prosecution made some of the same points. The PMF crew applauded and cheered and patted each other on the back for being right. That's fine, C&V have been neutralised, the report is off the table. No dissenting voice is heard or allowed to be heard, so this is taken as a definite conclusion.

The possibility that Hellman didn't agree with the prosecution's criticisms of C&V doesn't even seem to have crossed their minds. (Some of) the same criticisms they themselves had thought of were made in court, so they were self-evidently correct. Hellman must think as they do, because obviously nobody thinks any differently.


Rolfe.
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The Ganong witch posted that absolutely noone would be able to post on PMF about the crime scene collection video without specific references to which video they were talking about.

She had seen the entire 'real video' includng the bit with the crease on the glove that was labelled a tear.
By examining the 'correct video' herself from beginning to end she was able to form the humble opinion that the collection techniques that were shown were perfect in every way.
 
Over at PMF someone again said that Amanda was into "sex, drugs and alcohol". What?

There can't be many students studying away from home who remain virgins, though it seems Raffaele managed it until relatively late. There can't be many students studying away from home who are teetotal. And I gather that smoking cannabis was pretty common among the student community in Perugia.

In fact, I understand that Meredith was sleeping with her Italian boyfriend, and was blitzed out of her mind once or twice, and was smoking the cannabis her Italian boyfriend was growing in his flat.

Not a big deal in either case, really, but why aren't we hearing about how Meredith was into sex, drugs and alcohol?

Rolfe.
 
bri1 said:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Jury can be in no doubt what Meredith Kercher's family's legal team would like them to decide. Influential. #amandaknox
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Andrea Vogt
andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Maresca:"When you look in the eyes of the mama, sister and brother of #meredith Monday, I ask you to confirm the truth" #amandaknox

What is going on here? This is really really egregious and dangerous.
Click to expand...

It seems to be the theme lately. Show sympathy for the Kercher family by finding the Witchgirl guilty.
 
Wildhorses said:
Who knows? Seems to change every couple hours.

Yesterday they said only one lawyer per team could respond, yet both Mignini and Comodi ran their mouths.

No matter what, Amanda and Raff will get to speak.
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You called that right....geeez!

Theres another one after Maresca?!! How long does this attack allowed to go on.

I get ill reading it, its amazing there isnt more commotion in the courtroom with the intense slandering and name calling going on.

The prosecution mentions lear jets and false claims, nothing to do with rebutting what the defense presented, Hellman says nothing?

Maybe Hellman just wants them to move through it quickly, puke their last vomit out before acquittal?

In the end of today there will be No Motive, No Credible Witness and the C&V report ....

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
 
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Being a bully is currently the biggest taboo in society. Ad hominem attacks are in extreme disrespect as methods of argument.

It is really back world for the prosecution and guilters to rely so heavily in these tactics. It boggles the mind.
 
Novelli's article in Nanomedicine

RoseMontague said:
From Frank's latest (one of his best)



Anybody seen this study or have a link?
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Yes, Novelli coauthored a review that included a discussion of LCN:
Emiliano Giardina Aldo Spinella & Giuseppe Novelli, "Past, Present, and Future of forensic DNA typing," Nanomedicine, February 2011, Vol. 6, No. 2, Pages 257-270.

p. 265
“Very few laboratories perform low template DNA typing properly, because it requires dedicated facilities and great experience, although there are several published methods for the interpretation of such profiles [80-82].”

page 265
“Thus in these conditions [less than 100 picograms of DNA] there is a greater probability of artefacts, partial profiles with fewer alleles, contamination, preferential allele amplification, the complete absence of one allele (allele drop-out) in heterozygous loci and the nonspecific generation of extra alleles (allele drop-in) [78,79].

I think the defense might have a copy of this article also.
 
Do we know if the defense raised the point that there appeared to be neatly stacked pieces of glass on the sill suggesting someone had set them there before undoing the window latch and entering the window from the outside?

That always seemed to me to be a strong argument for reasonable doubt re: the staged break-in.
 
Journalism reviews

bri1 said:
KING5AMNEWS KING 5 Morning News
A couple updates from Linda Byron in Perugia: Prosecutors say if Amanda Knox conviction is overturned, the media is at fault.


One project, for example, might be to disprove the prosecutions' analysis of media's role in all of this.
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Another fine comment. The American Journalism Review must have counterparts in other countries, and this might be an appropriate venue for such a study.
 
Rolfe said:
For the prosecutor to urge the jury to convict on the grounds that the defendants will skip the country before the appeal they would pursue in that case is beyond ridiculous! What, there might be reasonable doubt about their guilt, but please convict anyway because we might have trouble getting them back for another appeal?

Is that what they're reduced to?

Rolfe.
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Yep. Losing.
 
Rose you were right...

Sollecito lawyer Donati giving rebuttal with the "story of Raffaele Sollecito" #amandaknox
Kercher lawyers are finished. Lawyers need to switch tables for defense to begin their rebuttals. #amandaknox
 
halides1 said:
Yes, Novelli coauthored a review that included a discussion of LCN:
Emiliano Giardina Aldo Spinella & Giuseppe Novelli, "Past, Present, and Future of forensic DNA typing," Nanomedicine, February 2011, Vol. 6, No. 2, Pages 257-270.

p. 265
“Very few laboratories perform low template DNA typing properly, because it requires dedicated facilities and great experience, although there are several published methods for the interpretation of such profiles [80-82].”

page 265
“Thus in these conditions [less than 100 picograms of DNA] there is a greater probability of artefacts, partial profiles with fewer alleles, contamination, preferential allele amplification, the complete absence of one allele (allele drop-out) in heterozygous loci and the nonspecific generation of extra alleles (allele drop-in) [78,79].

I think the defense might have a copy of this article also.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Wow, just Wow. I wonder what changed his mind?
 
bri1 said:
BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Jury can be in no doubt what Meredith Kercher's family's legal team would like them to decide. Influential. #amandaknox
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Click to expand...

Sad to say, I think it may be more influential than any of us would like to admit.

Here's more from the same source:

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
It would be a brave person who would bet on what the judges/jury will decide in the #amandaknox case. And no I am not taking any bets.
12 minutes ago
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UPDATE: Now, the defense gets its rebuttals. Strangely, Sollecito's is being delivered by his assistant attorney, as Bongiorno has to serve in parliament today. (What, they can delay the proceedings so the Kerchers can get there, but not so one of the defendant's lead attorneys is available?) Anyway, look for the guilters to herald Bongiorno's absence as proof that the defense has "thrown in the towel" and now accept a guilty verdict is inevitable.
 
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Novelli's turnaround

RoseMontague said:
Thank you.

Wow, just Wow. I wonder what changed his mind?
Click to expand...

Let me give an extended version of one of the quotes, because the preceding sentence is helpful:
"“Moreover, because the majority of commercial kits have an optimal amount of input DNA of approximately 0.5-1.0 ng, the results of forensic analysis in theses conditions are below the threshold for reliable interpretation, and several precautions and issues have to be considered to carefully interpret such profiles. Thus in these conditions [less than 100 picograms of DNA] there is a greater probability of artefacts, partial profiles with fewer alleles, contamination, preferential allele amplification, the complete absence of one allele (allele drop-out) in heterozygous loci and the nonspecific generation of extra alleles (allele drop-in) [78,79]."

I think that the defense brought up some of these issues in cross-examination, but I don't have a good citation. I wish I understood Novelli's actions.
 
halides1 said:
Another fine comment. The American Journalism Review must have counterparts in other countries, and this might be an appropriate venue for such a study.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Halides. If the correct verdict isn't returned, and after my viva, I will start researching, and enlist the help of academics used to dealing with statistics (both from my own academic contacts and those on JREF). If the correct verdict is returned, I will probably write a piece with a scaled-down version of said research, but with an emphasis on sub-judice rules and their importance (probably focussing on the differences between UK and Italian approaches).
Either way, I'll also enlist the support of my aunt, who lives between Perugia and Gubbio, and who is a translator, to help with translation of the Italian coverage.
 
Dougm said:
Do we have reliable confirmation of the jurors laughing along with the defense presentation, or just Amanda and some observers. I think if the jurors were actually laughing at what Ghirga was saying, that would be a very good sign.

If I were a juror, I would not laugh at a presentation by someone who's client is about to get found guilty of murder.
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@Candace_Dempsey
Candace Dempsey
Saw jurors laugh today when Amanda Knox atty mocked prosecutors, witness, cops. #AmandaKnox
 
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