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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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Daylightstar said:
That's a bit my point ;)

The stories have exactly zero evidential value.
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If ufology is being considered as a (pseudo)science that is right. If on the other hand we look at it as a curiousity of sociology or history, then we need to distinguish between "Eye witness statements documented close to the time and set down on paper", and "stories". The former is not good evidence, but is a starting point for an investigation to gather actual evidence. The latter is just stories.

Edge and ufology have fallen into the latter group.
 
Tomtomkent said:
It does have to be said again though: Stories are claims at best. Not evidence.
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Tomtomkent,

You have every right not to believe the thousands of people who have seen UFOs ( alien craft ). However eyewitness reports are evidence. It's some of the best evidence we have, and just because you won't accept it doesn't make it untrue.
 
ufology said:
Tomtomkent,

You have every right not to believe the thousands of people who have seen UFOs ( alien craft ). However eyewitness reports are evidence. It's some of the best evidence we have, and just because you won't accept it doesn't make it untrue.
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The only evidence, surely?
 
AdMan said:
With edge's arrival, this thread has turned even more idiotic than I thought it could.
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And Adman has just proved it again with his put-down innuendo ... yup real constructive way to contribute. Really did the JREF proud with that one.
 
ufology said:
Tomtomkent,
However eyewitness reports are evidence.
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If you want to assert that ontologically eyewitness reports are evidence, I don't have a problem with that. But in cases in which

1. a single eyewitness report (of a particular incident) is the only evidence, and

2. the claim is an extraordinary one,

eyewitness reports are not sufficient to accept the claim.

Agreed?

If you don't agree, you're going to be accepting a bunch of of wild, crazy, and/or stupid claims.
 
ufology said:
Tomtomkent,

You have every right not to believe the thousands of people who have seen UFOs ( alien craft ) unidentified things which have been identified. However eyewitness reports are evidence. It's some of the best evidence we have, and just because you won't accept it doesn't make it untrue.
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Reports are claims, not evidence. It's almost as if in all these helpful replies from all these cooperative skeptics, nobody's thought to mention that to you.

And how are we doing so far?... What do you say, ufology, do you feel like you're getting any closer to making a cogent argument in favor of the existence of aliens with edge's help?
 
23_Tauri said:
The only evidence, surely?
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Tauri,

Hmm ... let's think that over ... thousnads and thousnads of people over decades and decades have reported seeing UFOs ( alien craft ). Now even if that were the only evidence we have, that alone would still be amazing. Add to that the sightings confirmed by radar and that adds instrumented verification.
 
ufology said:
Tauri,

Hmm ... let's think that over ... thousnads and thousnads of people over decades and decades have reported seeing UFOs ( alien craft ). Now even if that were the only evidence we have, that alone would still be amazing. Add to that the sightings confirmed by radar and that adds instrumented verification.
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No, it's not amazing, not to me. Thousands of people used to see witches at work in their village and call in the Witchmaster General. Does that mean witches exist?

Radar picks up false readings, as many here will explain to you better than I.
 
John Albert said:
You have no evidence.
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Mr. Albert,

I've already given my own evidence and referenced evidence by others, so you are just plain wrong about me not having evidence. So why not just come right out and say there isn't any evidence anywhere ... that's what you really mean right? None of the written records we have from eyewitnesses count as evidence for you ... none ... right?
 
23_Tauri said:
No, it's not amazing, not to me. Thousands of people used to see witches at work in their village and call in the Witchmaster General. Does that mean witches exist? Radar picks up false readings, as many here will explain to you better than I.
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Tauri,

Exactly ... it's not amazing to you. And your "witch" analogy is a strawman argument ... so weave some more baskets with it.
 
I have just had two pieces of toast, the burn marks did not look like anything at all.
Does that mean jesus does not exist?
 
ufology said:
Tauri,

Hmm ... let's think that over ... thousnads and thousnads of people over decades and decades have reported seeing UFOs ( alien craft ).
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How did they know they were alien craft, and not something else?

Now even if that were the only evidence we have, that alone would still be amazing.
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Why? Everyone knows how to tell stories. Some of them are even true.

Not these, of course.
 
ufology said:
Tomtomkent,

You have every right not to believe the thousands of people who have seen UFOs ( alien craft ). However eyewitness reports are evidence. It's some of the best evidence we have, and just because you won't accept it doesn't make it untrue.
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No they are not. They are CLAIMS not EVIDENCE.
Once again (amazing how ufology has never bothered to debate where he has a problem understanding this):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence

Such evidence is generally expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[2] The Oxford English Dictionary says that scientific method is: "a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses."
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Unquantifiable stories are not evidence. The very fact that objectively there is no need to believe them, and no way of falsifying them prevent them from being evidence of anything.

Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established.
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Witness testimony can be used as evidence for some forms of research, such as historical, cognitive sciences, or legal research, but there are limitations. People writing on the internet is not one of them. Statements dictated and recorded, close to the event, is used to direct towards more useful evidence, but is very weak evidence. The more it changes, as ufology illustrates with his "corrections", the less it can be relied upon. Until it has to be disregarded.

Why are finding this so very hard to comprehend ufology? How many more times are we expected to supply the same descriptions and links to what is and is not evidence in the scientific method?

And putting "(alien craft)" after the word UFO does not mean what anybody saw was an alien. Nor does it change the meaning of the word.
 
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