Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

I dont get the cat blood topic?
Can anyone explain?

This seems a very odd ending to her closing? cat blood downstairs? what?

If you get a chance look at part 2 of the 3 November video. The investigators found a blood goldmine of evidence there. I posted elsewhere that if they had done a Luminol test it would have lit up like a Christmas tree on the Fourth of July. Chair, floor, walls, clothes, bed, bathroom all evidence from what turned out to be a wounded cat. They were all excited but the cat did it theory didn't fit, the window was just too high.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

I wonder how showing the pictures was received by the Kercher family?
I can't image they were happy about that.

Yes, I wonder if they'd been told what he was going to do beforehand...

I believe that he had advised them that he was going to show 'some' graphic pictures and it would be better if they didn't have to look at them, HENCE their absence from the courtroom yesterday. HOWEVER, little would they have expected him to go as far as he actually did and they must be appalled and shocked at his actions. For me, he showed his true colours yesterday and this devious weasel has not served his clients well...a fact that will soon become apparent once the 'Not Guilty' verdict comes in.

What he will do about his claim for 'remuneration' from the Kerchers once the trial is over is anyone's guess.

 

[RoseMontague]

The real point made about the gatto

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno closes saying entire trial is based on erroneous DNA interpretation of stefanoni. Must acquit sollecito #amandaknox
1 hour ago
»

andreavogt Andrea Vogt
Bongiorno: citing Giobbi testimony and saying cat blood also had traces of human DNA, according to def expert Tagliabracci.

Is the prosecution calling it mixed blood then?

 

[RoseMontague]

BBC dude update. Is there more from Raffaele's defense this afternoon?

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
I think I can sum up Bongiorno's morning thus. Rafaelle's DNA on bra clasp wrong. Police screwed up, #amandaknox and Raffaelle are innocent.
1 hour ago
»

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
Weird personal story from Bongiorno about her trip to see baby killer Alessi to get evidence for #amandaknox appeal
1 hour ago
»

BBCDanielS Daniel Sandford
#amandaknox jury shown video of moment when scientific police found bra clasp. Lots of mess. Lots of handling. Contamination point complete.

 

[Paninaro]

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno invokes results of independent experts & says that the presence of #rudyguede proves he was the only assassin in room. #amandaknox


So what were all the "well-informed" pro-guilt commentators saying about the defence teams "abandoning" the lone-assailant theory?

But apart from that, I'd say that Bongiorno isn't technically correct (if this has been properly reported). It's more appropriate to say that the evidence in Meredith's bedroom only proves the presence of one person - Guede - and that it's consistent with Guede being the lone killer. I don't think the evidence proves that Guede was the lone killer though.

And there has never been any doubt that the defence for both defendants are arguing that the lone wolf theory is really the only plausible one, though it's not up to the defense to prove that.

Even some of the more simple minds over at PMF should understand that by now. But probably not.

I agree that reasonable doubt has been established way beyond what is needed and that Knox and Sollecito will be found not guilty of murder. Italy is not a third world country and the wrong verdict of the first trial will not be repeated. That verdict was very much a result of the testimony of Curatolo and the DNA-evidence that gave the judges the excuse they needed to follow the instinct planted in them by the emotional witch hunt campaign against Knox.

But why do you think Knox also will go free of the charges made by Lumumba? I think there is a very strong possibility that the court will convict on that. If they decide not to do so, it will surely have to come togehter with a very sharp devastating condemnation of both police and prosecutors. Maybe that will be too much to hope for.

 

[JREF2010]

I'm still trying to get my head around the "cat operating the mobile phone" thing. I can't recall the defence teams ever making any sort of claim along those lines, and they wouldn't have done so during prosecution/civil closing arguments.

Bongiorno: citing Giobbi testimony and saying cat blood also had traces of human DNA, according to def expert Tagliabracci.-AndreaVogt tweet

hmm? Is it a internal lawyer topic aimed at Edgardo Giobbi?
I dont get it, other than its obviously an inside sarcasm/dry humor amongst the defense , a slam of the police investigation of course, in some way....
cat blood? maybe the cat turned on raffaeles cell phone?

 

[RoseMontague]

I agree that reasonable doubt has been established way beyond what is needed and that Knox and Sollecito will be found not guilty of murder. Italy is not a third world country and the wrong verdict of the first trial will not be repeated. That verdict was very much a result of the testimony of Curatolo and the DNA-evidence that gave the judges the excuse they needed to follow the instinct planted in them by the emotional witch hunt campaign against Knox.

Nice comment, and a good summary. I hope you are right.

 

[RoseMontague]

Bongiorno: citing Giobbi testimony and saying cat blood also had traces of human DNA, according to def expert Tagliabracci.-AndreaVogt tweet

hmm? Is it a internal lawyer topic aimed at Edgardo Giobbi?
I dont get it, other than its obviously an inside sarcasm/dry humor amongst the defense , a slam of the police investigation of course, in some way....
cat blood? maybe the cat turned on raffaeles cell phone?

It is an obvious example of how blood can be deposited with human DNA innocently. I'll try to post some of the comments from <Dr Steffi's testimony on the cat blood in a few.

 

[Dan O.]

If you get a chance look at part 2 of the 3 November video. The investigators found a blood goldmine of evidence there. I posted elsewhere that if they had done a Luminol test it would have lit up like a Christmas tree on the Fourth of July. Chair, floor, walls, clothes, bed, bathroom all evidence from what turned out to be a wounded cat. They were all excited but the cat did it theory didn't fit, the window was just too high.

I've said before that some of those small puncture wounds on Meredith's hand look just like the punctures from a cat claw I get when I try to clean an abcess on my cat. And since I've witnessed more than one cat climbing ladders, I'm not buying your "too high" theory.

 

[Diocletus]

Yes, I wonder if they'd been told what he was going to do beforehand...

Maresca is the Kercher's lawyer. Unless and until I hear otherwise, I'll assume that they knew about and authorized the display of the pictures.

 

[RoseMontague]

Cat quotes from biology graduate

Q. - As part of this argument says, she said "Yes, but when, for example, reacts to bleach the test for the human DNA is not allowed", the specific test for human DNA does not allow the bleach, I understood that, if he wants to ...
ANSWER - Yes, in the sense that the DNA test is specific for human DNA, then we can not see DNA analysis in this cat's DNA, for example, to give an example that happened to us. Let's say if we had a sample made of a false positive luminol, for example ...


ANSWER - Yes, there is also a table, D, in which are enclosed in the analytical results obtained from biological traces of unidentified individuals profile compared to saliva swabs and swab of the victim that we have available, so they are, we can see, 7 men, 8 men and three women indeed. I should point out that many of these results you've seen them because they are not related to a part of the inspection, and therefore the findings of this survey, which were acquired during the survey of November 2 to 4 in the apartment below that of the victim, the one where he was found copious amounts of blood traces of this infamous cat, then say this area at the end of the inspection, the house has been completely abandoned by the analytical point of view, because results were obtained at first, then after say ... how to say the point of view it is a bit investigating 'the adjusted range, then you are obviously very precise investigation of the assumptions made, so this part of the analysis was then suspended.

 

[Scorpion NITE]

Great line from Giulia Bongiorno (quoting from the film?) in the comparison between Jessica Rabbit and Amanda:

''I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way''

 

[Paninaro]

Sounds like : DENY

DENY

DENY.

That the denial is false must be proven by the prosecution. There is absolutely nothing that proves that Knox and Sollecito got together with Guede to murder Kercher. Cutatolo is discredited, so there is nothing to break their alibi. The alleged murder weapon is discredited, so there is no murder weapon. The mixed DNA, the multiple assailants, the footstep that could be Sollecitos and the alleged staged break in cannot alone prove anything, and there is alternative explanations that gives reasonable doubt. The false "confession" of Knox is circumstantial evidence, but not enough to convict. Since it doesn't include confession of actual facts but instead was a confession of things that didn't happen it's far, far from conclusive.

The time of death issue, the lack of any motive, the absence of wounds on Knox and Sollecito and blood on their clothes, their unbroken alibi, the lack of evidence of them in the murder room and more, actively speaks against their involvement.

The court is going to acquit on reasonable doubt, or it could be that they exonerate completely.

So what do you think of Francesco Maresca video performance? Was this ghoulish way to make journalists and other at the trial remember Meredith what the Kerchers had instructed him to do? Was it in any way disrespectful to the victim? Was it necessary to assure a conviction and true justice?

 

[RoseMontague]

Great line from Giulia Bongiorno (quoting from the film?) in the comparison between Jessica Rabbit and Amanda:

''I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way''

Amazing. I love it.

 

[RoseMontague]

Maori up next

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
cameras filtering back into court. Luca Maori for #solleito already in place practicing his closing arguments.
31 minutes ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Lunch break in #amandknox until 3pm. This judge likes long lunches.
1 hour ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno calls this case a grave error, gives jury the opportunity to right a wrong, tells them to absolve #amandaknox and #sollecito
1 hour ago
»

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
Bongiorno says the prosec said "they killed for nothing" in fact, she says, "they did nothing. " #amandaknox
1 hour ago

 

[Grinder]

15 minutes break.
Last chance for Mignini is to quickly get Bongiorno arrested now.

and coffee came out of the nose. hysterical

 

[JREF2010]

Dan Abrahms stated yesterday the verdict could go several ways, it is no slam-dunk case for the defense. This seems to be what even Curt Knox keeps repeating, and after the Massei verdict understandable.

Dan's logic is scary...but is it held by some of the judges?

In short Dan is saying, the case would be determined by the evidence NOT studied in depth,(aka the other evidence),

instead of the logical approach, that the case would be decided by the evidence that was studied in depth.

not sure I agree with Dan, but this very scary logic, imo.
I have to accept that it could be the perspective of some of the judges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3880ZSOt3jc

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Dan Abrahms stated yesterday the verdict could go several ways, it is no slam-dunk case for the defense. This seems to be what even Curt Knox keeps repeating, and after the Massei verdict understandable.

Dan's logic is scary...but is it held by some of the judges?

In short Dan is saying, the case would be determined by the evidence NOT studied in depth,(aka the other evidence),

instead of the logical approach, that the case would be decided by the evidence that was studied in depth.

not sure I agree with Dan, but this very scary logic, imo.
I have to accept that it could be the perspective of some of the judges.

Abrahms is the guy that pushed the Harry Potter lie early on. He has no credibility.

 

[Grinder]

Let me ask this to anyone that reads here and you can answer wherever. Is there anyone that thinks these pictures will not eventually be plastered all over the web? Will it have been worth it?

Someone with a camera phone will most likely do it.

This would be the saddest outcome for Kerchers I can imagine.

 

[Grinder]

She's arguing that 'absence of evidence is evidence of absence', and in my opinion, she's right to argue this, as it goes towards showing that not only is the 'evidence' against them bogus (and hence they should be found not guilty because of reasonable doubt), but that the evidence they don't have is actually indicative of innocence. I think there's room in her summations for both a 'negative' phase of argument (proseuction haven't proved their case, reasonable doubt, etc) and a positive phase of argument.
MOO

Just getting up to speed this morning but from what I read it looks like an approach I would like. She seemed to start with the police's presumption of guilt from before the interrogation.

I agree that the 'absence of evidence' is a strong point.