Being transgender is hard

[AvalonXQ]

That distinction can be found in facial transplant patients. And facial transplants are far more risky than GRS because the patient must take drugs to prevent rejection for the rest of their lives.

Some of these patients are blind and so you wonder what difference it really makes regarding their appearance, but others will have the surgery to help with eating or breathing. Those who are "only having it" to help with mental reasons are being too easily dismissed IMO. You only have one life, to go through it disfigured when there are medical solutions available is inhumane.

I'm not disagreeing with their decisions to undergo surgery, but I do think it's reasonable to separate out surgeries that are needed for mental health, with surgeries that are needed for physical function. Whether the former should be covered by insurance under the same grounds as the latter can be separately discussed; I wouldn't conflate the two.

I guess part of the issue for me is that a variety of mental conditions may make a variety of therapies necessary, and I'm not convinced all of these should be covered -- or at least I'm convinced that their coverage should be tackled separately from primary medical treatment. In another thread, a poster pointed out that his depression was alleviated by getting laid, and as I understand it some anxiety can be treated by relaxing activity (say, a camping trip) -- still, it is debatable as to whether these treatments should be seen as "medical treatments" as opposed to therapeutic treatments.

Partially because gender is a social construct, it is hard for me to see gender reassignment as more than a cosmetic procedure, whatever therapeutic function motivates the procedure.

 

[truethat]

I'm not disagreeing with their decisions to undergo surgery, but I do think it's reasonable to separate out surgeries that are needed for mental health, with surgeries that are needed for physical function. Whether the former should be covered by insurance under the same grounds as the latter can be separately discussed; I wouldn't conflate the two.

I guess part of the issue for me is that a variety of mental conditions may make a variety of therapies necessary, and I'm not convinced all of these should be covered -- or at least I'm convinced that their coverage should be tackled separately from primary medical treatment. In another thread, a poster pointed out that his depression was alleviated by getting laid, and as I understand it some anxiety can be treated by relaxing activity (say, a camping trip) -- still, it is debatable as to whether these treatments should be seen as "medical treatments" as opposed to therapeutic treatments.

Partially because gender is a social construct, it is hard for me to see gender reassignment as more than a cosmetic procedure, whatever therapeutic function motivates the procedure.

I don't think anyone would argue that is not a cosmetic procedure. Not all transgenders have sexual reassignment surgeries. In many cases the hormones solve much of the issue. For example Chaz Bono is not having a penis created. Those are tough to do anyway. But the removal of the breasts and also a hysterectomy to prevent periods etc. Those are cosmetic.

Please also consider that many transgenders don't want to have surgery the same way other people don't want to have surgery if it is not absolutely necessary.

Hormone therapy works very well if it is started with the onset of puberty especially for MtF. It's actually pretty amazing what is done.

 

[Dessi]

Since I've already been asked this a few times, yes, I am tg.

I'm already successfully transitioned and don't need support from anyone, so I'm just an outsider. I still like to support the community

(And if you're wondering, no, this thread isn't about me. My experience was a lot easier than others.)

 

[Earthborn]

Since I've already been asked this a few times, yes, I am tg.

Really? So this photo was a lie? Had you chosen a different path in life you would have been straight; while you must have been born fabulous.

 

[Dessi]

Really? So this photo was a lie? Had you chosen a different path in life you would have been straight; while you must have been born fabulous.

<3 you too

Ok, so I really have to know, who is that lovely woman in your avatar?

 

[Earthborn]

Ok, so I really have to know, who is that lovely woman in your avatar?

Me, myself and Photoshop.

 

[Dessi]

Me, myself and Photoshop.

I'm sure you've already got this a lot, but thank you so much for support tg people, I appreciate it.

I was having coffee with some PFLAG members today, all of them give presentations and talks about LGBT issues. Recently they've been giving training sessions to the police departments and universities, and one point which came up over and over was the importance of parents of gay children and straight allies on these panels.

95% of people are straight or cisgendered, and most of the time they don't really want to hear gay people talking about their lives and such. Non-LGBT just don't relate. But when a parent of a gay person is on the panel, suddenly everyone in the room can relate, they say "oh my god, that could be me, what would I do if my kid told me they were gay?"

One of the regular speakers on the panel shows a video made by a parent. Its a story of a parent's journey when her daughter came out to her as transgender. This parent, at first, reacted very badly, she wrote a scathing letter to her condemning her for a "terrible and depraved choice of lifestyle", she outed her daughter at church and the members made her feel unwelcome, alienated her daughter so far that she committed suicide. The suicide hit *hard*, it hit her parents, her siblings, her friends, everyone at church, and this parent said to herself "how the hell could I do this, why couldn't I simply love my child". This parent came to pflag for support, to apologize publicly for what she's done and said, and stressed that family support is THE most important thing in the world for young LGBT people.

So when we have panels with parents, people relate. Interesting thing is, even in the most hostile audiences, if you ask who has a gay family member or a close friend, 75% of people in the room raise their hand, almost everyone can relate. Every single person who supports the community helps so much

 

[truethat]

My post was moved btw. I don't want to replicate it in an attempt to circumvent the forum moderation.

It's no wonder it was moved however since the poster attempted to have the thread closed now that he/she realized that he/she needed more information before making a decision.

My advice would be this, if you are having a visceral reaction to a topic that has no personal meaning in your life, it is probably based on a form of social conformity.

Most people I meet on this site do not want to admit they are biased because of social conformity because most of us think we are independent individuals. It is very hard to be slapped in the face with your own prejudice.

But when it does happen, take a look at and embrace it and LEARN. Do what all thinkers do............research and challenge your own "gut instinct." At the end of the day you will likely realize that your biases are unfounded and so it is very important not to perpetuate ignorance.

Be part of the solution. Not part of the problem, even if you started that way. It's ok to change your position. The smartest people in the world do it often.

 

[Alt+F4]

95% of people are straight or cisgendered, and most of the time they don't really want to hear gay people talking about their lives and such. Non-LGBT just don't relate. But when a parent of a gay person is on the panel, suddenly everyone in the room can relate, they say "oh my god, that could be me, what would I do if my kid told me they were gay?"

I think it in part depends on where you live. I live in NYC and I encounter very few people who relate poorly to LGBT folks. For almost everyone I know it's like being left-handed, no biggie.

I also think in part it has to do with age and when a person comes out. Me and the Mrs. have been out for years and years, both of our families have no problem with it now, even the little kids in our families are ok with it. Of course that wasn't the case 25 years ago. People need time to become tolerate, it doesn't happen overnight, sometimes it takes years, but for the majority it does happen.

 

[Alt+F4]

Since I've already been asked this a few times, yes, I am tg.

I'm already successfully transitioned and don't need support from anyone, so I'm just an outsider. I still like to support the community

(And if you're wondering, no, this thread isn't about me. My experience was a lot easier than others.)

Good to hear that your experience was easier than others.

 

[truethat]

I think it in part depends on where you live. I live in NYC and I encounter very few people who relate poorly to LGBT folks. For almost everyone I know it's like being left-handed, no biggie.

I also think in part it has to do with age and when a person comes out. Me and the Mrs. have been out for years and years, both of our families have no problem with it now, even the little kids in our families are ok with it. Of course that wasn't the case 25 years ago. People need time to become tolerate, it doesn't happen overnight, sometimes it takes years, but for the majority it does happen.

I think you mean tolerant but I don't want to be a grammar nazi because I'm a horrible speller.


I disagree that people "need time" to be tolerant. Understanding lack of tolerance goes against common sense. Patiently waiting for people to GTF over their prejudices only leads to years of oppression. Just ask black and gay folks out there.

When confronted with ignorance or the "need for time to be tolerant" I'm pretty much over patiently accepting someone being an "ahole' because they are stupidly uninformed.

Get informed. People don't need how to "learn to be tolerant" they need to STFU until they actually know what they are talking about.

This is why I'm so aggressive about this. I've had friends who are gay and black and arab be discriminated against for years while people were slowly "coaxed" into tolerance.

Orval Faubus had to be "coaxed into tolerance" by the National Guard under the direction of President Eisenhower during the integration process in Arkansas. He now feels like a total pig because of his ignorance.

If he wasn't forced at gunpoint to integrate his schools he wouldn't have done it.


http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/faubus_orval.html

It is important to always remember the idea of "tyranny of the majority" by John Stuart Mill with regard to the needs of any minority in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU9ri8bQygE

 

[L.Y.S.]

I think you mean tolerant but I don't want to be a grammar nazi because I'm a horrible speller.


I disagree that people "need time" to be tolerant. Understanding lack of tolerance goes against common sense. Patiently waiting for people to GTF over their prejudices only leads to years of oppression. Just ask black and gay folks out there.

When confronted with ignorance or the "need for time to be tolerant" I'm pretty much over patiently accepting someone being an "ahole' because they are stupidly uninformed.

Get informed. People don't need how to "learn to be tolerant" they need to STFU until they actually know what they are talking about.

This is why I'm so aggressive about this. I've had friends who are gay and black and arab be discriminated against for years while people were slowly "coaxed" into tolerance.

Sorry I have to disagree. As a black person I know things take time. Nothing happens over night. And you need to realize this with TG. NO one will accept anything over night. Unfortunately this is the truth of the human condition, and it is something you must accept. You can do nothing more than inform people and they will tolerate or not tolerate. The choice is there’s and should remain theirs.

 

[Pup]

You can do nothing more than inform people and they will tolerate or not tolerate. The choice is there’s and should remain theirs.

So would you be against civil rights acts or similar laws? Interesting. Not sure how that would work.

If the majority of people become informed and therefore decide to pass a law requiring everyone to be tolerant whether they want to be or not, do you think that's an example of the majority's free choice, or does that take away the rights of the minority to be intolerant?

For example, if a little southern town, to this day, wanted to have segregated schools and drinking fountains, and make black people sit at the back of their buses, would it be wrong for more-informed people to prohibit them?

 

[truethat]

Sorry I have to disagree. As a black person I know things take time. Nothing happens over night. And you need to realize this with TG. NO one will accept anything over night. Unfortunately this is the truth of the human condition, and it is something you must accept. You can do nothing more than inform people and they will tolerate or not tolerate. The choice is there’s and should remain theirs.

sorry buddy but it does happen over night. Gay marriage happened over night in NYC one day it didn't exist the next day it did. I don't care if you "get it" or "are neutral about it" or "disagree"

If it's legal and a fair right and you decide you want to have a conversation because allowing someone to do something they have the freedom to do in their life just doesn't "sit right" with you for some reason, it is not only ignorance. That is exactly what being a bigot means.

So would you be against civil rights acts or similar laws? Interesting. Not sure how that would work.

If the majority of people become informed and therefore decide to pass a law requiring everyone to be tolerant whether they want to be or not, do you think that's an example of the majority's free choice, or does that take away the rights of the minority to be intolerant?

For example, if a little southern town, to this day, wanted to have segregated schools and drinking fountains, and make black people sit at the back of their buses, would it be wrong for more-informed people to prohibit them?

Exactly. Very good point.


Also you must be a young black man if you think that people have a right to be intolerant. I don't think you really understand what you are saying.

 

[Gazpacho]

Sorry I have to disagree. As a black person I know things take time. Nothing happens over night.

Nothing just "happens" without people pushing the boundary.

 

[ToddH]

One of the regular speakers on the panel shows a video made by a parent. Its a story of a parent's journey when her daughter came out to her as transgender. This parent, at first, reacted very badly, she wrote a scathing letter to her condemning her for a "terrible and depraved choice of lifestyle", she outed her daughter at church and the members made her feel unwelcome, alienated her daughter so far that she committed suicide. The suicide hit *hard*, it hit her parents, her siblings, her friends, everyone at church, and this parent said to herself "how the hell could I do this, why couldn't I simply love my child". This parent came to pflag for support, to apologize publicly for what she's done and said, and stressed that family support is THE most important thing in the world for young LGBT people

A heartbreaking story. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Alt+F4]

Nothing just "happens" without people pushing the boundary.

Of course but even that takes time. How many times has a gay or trans person come home and said, "Hey mom and dad I'm gay (or trans or both)!" and mom and dad ran up, hugged them and say, "that's great! we love you so much!". Yhe second part happening, if it ever will, takes time. You push the boundary by coming out, you give those you love and care about time to adjust and eventually accept.

 

[Dessi]

Of course but even that takes time. How many times has a gay or trans person come home and said, "Hey mom and dad I'm gay (or trans or both)!" and mom and dad ran up, hugged them and say, "that's great! we love you so much!". Yhe second part happening, if it ever will, takes time. You push the boundary by coming out, you give those you love and care about time to adjust and eventually accept.

When I told my parents for the first time, my mom was weirded out, my dad seemed to acknowledge it -- but he made some not polite comments suggesting I'm going through a phase. It took about 3 years for my parents to come around, understand that its not a phase, and I think in retrospect they wonder why it was even an issue in the first place, over the past year or so I think they've really come to accept that their child really is a vegetarian. *sad trombone*

 

[Alt+F4]

When I told my parents for the first time, my mom was weirded out, my dad seemed to acknowledge it -- but he made some not polite comments suggesting I'm going through a phase. It took about 3 years for my parents to come around, understand that its not a phase, and I think in retrospect they wonder why it was even an issue in the first place, over the past year or so I think they've really come to accept that their child really is a vegetarian. *sad trombone*

Reminds me of when my mother (at age 65) told me she was a Republican. She secretly had been one for years but didn't tell anyone because she felt she would be osterized in our FDR/JFK family. It took years, but I eventually accepted.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Of course but even that takes time. How many times has a gay or trans person come home and said, "Hey mom and dad I'm gay (or trans or both)!" and mom and dad ran up, hugged them and say, "that's great! we love you so much!". Yhe second part happening, if it ever will, takes time. You push the boundary by coming out, you give those you love and care about time to adjust and eventually accept.

Can I just say then, that if either of my 2 boys turn out to be gay (or trans), it won't make a ha'porth of difference to how I feel about them.