Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[NewtonTrino]

For some reason I still have a bad feeling about this.

I'm going 60/40 in favor of acquittal based on the insanity the Italian system has shown so far. Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[JREF2010]

It's over for today.

Saturday is going to be yet another sad day along with the civil parties after. I'm waiting for the defense and their, hopefully fierce, closing arguments. They have to do their best.

Mignini played his part in the worst way he could. Mentioning Meredith's family, showing pictures of " the kiss ", blaming media (they were heavily criticizing AK and RS when the first trial was coming to an end, now that the tide turns, he's complaining, idiot), saying there was mixed blood, claiming Curatolo's credible. I mean, where are the evidence?

I'm waiting for the defense.

If they were getting bored with today, then Commodi going on and on, pretending to be a expert on DNA, will surely be difficult.
Besides the fact they just got done hearing her go on and on about the DNA a week ago.

Maybe her surprise will be a Crack-Addict dealer they found to be a surprise credible witness.

Mignini was a real 'no show" it seems? Without the Holy Grail - Kitchen Knife, its more difficult to sell.

Someone mentioned Mignini was going on about Amandas vibrator again?
Was this a joke? Or is it the new Murder Weapon for the prosecution?

 

[Diocletus]

Mistrial

No doubt in my mind that if half the details I've read about Mignini's argument are true, this would result in mistrial and discipline in the US.

Nazis, racism, vibrators, lobbying, "political" pressure, inaccurate statements about "deals" with the press, mischaracterization of the evidence, American vs. Italian justice systems . . .

This is just ridiculous. Maybe he WANTS a mistrial, if there is such a thing over there.

BTW: The trial isn't about any of these things. It's about two things: 1) standard of proof, and 2) evidence. The prosecution loses on both and that's why we have Mignini coming up with all this crazy garbage.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Thanks for posting. Amanda looks extremely frightened. I would be too.

Most welcome. Yes, she must feel terrified that the stakes are so high, and her young life literally hanging in the balance.

 

[smkovalinksy]

For some reason I still have a bad feeling about this.

I'm going 60/40 in favor of acquittal based on the insanity the Italian system has shown so far. Let's hope I'm wrong.

I agree: There is a bad feeling to this. I think the past few weeks pro-innocence people (myself included) have been declaring victory when it was far from certain. Far from certain...

 

[snook1]

I agree: There is a bad feeling to this. I think the past few weeks pro-innocence people (myself included) have been declaring victory when it was far from certain. Far from certain...

But, didn't we all expect that Mignini would come up with this? It's closing arguments for the prosecution. They lost their case already and they have to do their best and if there's a guilty verdict somehow, then The Supreme Court will set them free. I see no different scenario.

There's no case left. Bongiorno today in court said that this case was all about the DNA for the prosecution. Now, that it's gone, suddenly they focus their attention on other things. Unfortunetely for them, there is nothing that would proove Amanda's and Raffaele's involvement in the murder. Nothing.

For me they are clearly innocent, but let's say the judge isn't that sure...What's next? He will study the evidence, he will listen to the defense and he'll see that there is a reasonable doubt (at the very least) and he will set them free.

Today is just another day of the theatre that Mignini and co are running. After that we will have the defense in its full glory (I hope) and they will destroy every single argument that the prosecutors forced as evidence.

 

[benno]

Thanks for posting the youtube link of Amanda entering court this morning.

 

[Grinder]

What's interesting is that we have the Supreme Court saying that the two statements aren't admissible to prove murder, and yet we have Mignini saying that Knox collapsed due to guilt, obviously referring to the interrogation and results thereof. I guess the statements are admissible to prove colunnia, but really, what's the point of this bogus exclusionary order that is flaunted by Mignini anyway.

Dan the judges have been reading about the "confession" for 4 years. It is mentioned through the notes in Massei IIRC. The idea that the defense should avoid discussing it makes no sense to me at all. The actual "confession" has been made public and it is less harmful than the rumor.

They must address it.

 

[daydreamer]

If I punch you in the mouth, then claim you bit my hand because it is now cut, would anyone feel much sympathy for me?

If I were the ILE, No. Also, if you tell anyone, I will charge you with calunnia.
That's the way it works here!

 

[Poppy1016]

Well I'm glad to see Bongiorno could take time out of her busy schedule to attend totays hearing. I hope she is fully prepared to give it to the prosecution both barrels.

 

[RandyN]

Maybe the jurors are smarter than people think and are waiting until they have heard all the closing arguments listened to any guidance provided by the professional judges then start their deliberation maybe that is naive and lay judges are mindless automatons as some seem to conclude.

Or maybe they will act exactly as the automatons did for Massei.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Can't wait for some more detailed summary of what went today. From the twits it looks prosecution had nothing about motive and no reconstruction of events, nothing about ToD. Any motive or ToD they give can be shot down immediately by the defence, so they will probably try to play it the last possible moment, giving no chance for a reply.

The "surprise":
After Maresca declared on TV that Rudy tells the truth, I thought for a moment that this is the surprise we'll get - that the Kerchers and the prosecution now believe Guede really had a date with Meredith and tried to rescue her. Apparently they're not far from it. Guede is now the "poor black boy", sympathetic, nice, almost innocent, who shouldn't take all the blame.

Other events revealed today what is this case really about. That chief prosecution guy who came to express his "support" for Mignini ( and in reality shake his finger at Hellmann and Zanetti), and the perugian "medalists" who decided it's good time to make a demonstration of power in front of international media and rough up that pesky Sfarzo again. It's all about defending the status quo of the rotten local clique - corrupt prosecutors, corrupt and incompetent cops enacting their small town blue code of silence.

A thought about prosecution's tactic:
They very well realise that Hellmann and Zanetti are "against them". The only points to score are with the lay "judges". Mignini is well aware that these people won't bother with reading the "10 000 pages", they're more likely educating themselves about the case from "Porta a porta" and colourful weeklies. That's why Mignini was rambling about the media so much today, that's why the appeals to "think like the Kerchers", that's why we've got the nazis, vibrators, condoms, sexy panties and a kissing couple pics. This is the last chance, what the prosecution aims for, to get a majority from the jury (and a votum separatum of Hellmann). It would probably be an astronomically rare outcome, almost unheard of, thus the pessimism among the prosecution camp.

 

[Magister]

The lay judges are of very high education, sort of thing like LJ or your own education, their input will be the most inportent when Judge Hellman comes to his final view.

The 6 lay judges' educational level is only required to be of university entrance standard, not that they be graduates.

 

[Dougm]

If I punch you in the mouth, then claim you bit my hand because it is now cut, would anyone feel much sympathy for me?

Let's hope not. But in this case, nothing seems impossible.

 

[NancyS]

For some reason I still have a bad feeling about this.

I'm going 60/40 in favor of acquittal based on the insanity the Italian system has shown so far. Let's hope I'm wrong.

I don't think you can help feeling like this - the trial should never have happened in the first place and there was no logic to the verdict of the first trial. You keep hoping that people will just look at the facts, but it hasn't happened so far and there are no guarantees that it will happen now.

Does anyone know what happens if this goes to the Supreme Court? Where will this be held and will it be with the same prosecution?

 

[smkovalinksy]

But, didn't we all expect that Mignini would come up with this? It's closing arguments for the prosecution. They lost their case already and they have to do their best and if there's a guilty verdict somehow, then The Supreme Court will set them free. I see no different scenario.

There's no case left. Bongiorno today in court said that this case was all about the DNA for the prosecution. Now, that it's gone, suddenly they focus their attention on other things. Unfortunetely for them, there is nothing that would proove Amanda's and Raffaele's involvement in the murder. Nothing.

For me they are clearly innocent, but let's say the judge isn't that sure...What's next? He will study the evidence, he will listen to the defense and he'll see that there is a reasonable doubt (at the very least) and he will set them free.

Today is just another day of the theatre that Mignini and co are running. After that we will have the defense in its full glory (I hope) and they will destroy every single argument that the prosecutors forced as evidence.

I guess you are right. Maybe I am too pessimistic, and maybe Mignini scares me a bit, and reminds me of the bad old days....

 

[smkovalinksy]

Thanks for posting the youtube link of Amanda entering court this morning.

You are very welcome. I think she looks tense and worried. Cannot blame her one bit...

 

[Dougm]

A thought about prosecution's tactic:
They very well realise that Hellmann and Zanetti are "against them". The only points to score are with the lay "judges". Mignini is well aware that these people won't bother with reading the "10 000 pages", they're more likely educating themselves about the case from "Porta a porta" and colourful weeklies. That's why Mignini was rambling about the media so much today, that's why the appeals to "think like the Kerchers", that's why we've got the nazis, vibrators, condoms, sexy panties and a kissing couple pics. This is the last chance, what the prosecution aims for, to get a majority from the jury (and a votum separatum of Hellmann). It would probably be an astronomically rare outcome, almost unheard of, thus the pessimism among the prosecution camp.

Good points. I think that the prosecution's best hope is that the jury doesn't really delve deeply into the facts of the case. It is hard for me to imagine, but the more people learn about this case, the more likely they are to believe in innocence, IMO.

A small band of guilter types excepted!

 

[RandyN]

Interesting choice by police to decide that today is the day we must collect the fine from Frank. I wonder if Mignini ordered that?

Its clear now who the Nazi actually is...the one who can commit the crime and while doing it he points his finger at the accused and eats cake and sips tea. Mignini will rot in hell for his behavior.

So, after today...where is the case? Who killed Meredith? What did they use to kill her? Where did this take place? When did they do it and when was the TOD ? What is the motivation? Where is the DNA? Where are the fingerprints?

I hope its just a rumor about the condoms and pink rabbit. That in itself is so disrespectful and irrelevant to the court that I cant imagine any judge putting up with it.

If today was the prosecutions best shot (and lets face it there can be no real surprises anymore) then I place my percentage of a finding of not guilty at 99%.

This clown Mignini acted exactly as I expected today...nothing! Just the same ole dog and pony show but this time the dog only has two legs and the pony is already glue. No substance...only words...don’t listen to the press...last time listen to the press. This man has talked like a man with a paper ******* since the beginning. That it is finally becoming clear to everyone now is what happens when people like this aren’t smart enough to know when to shut up.

This case is over. Or it will be in a few short days. Only then can the healing begin
.

 

[Diocletus]

Can't wait for some more detailed summary of what went today. From the twits it looks prosecution had nothing about motive and no reconstruction of events, nothing about ToD. Any motive or ToD they give can be shot down immediately by the defence, so they will probably try to play it the last possible moment, giving no chance for a reply.

That's an interesting observation. Could it be that they will not address motive, time of death, or alibi? That would be amazing.

If they leave those issues open, maybe they have planned for Maresca somehow to address them.

Or, maybe they leave the defense to argue in opposition to the prosecution position as stated in the first trial. That would leave room for the defense to really slam the prosecution on these issues. Would the prosecution then use their rebuttal to argue an entirely new theory? This wouldn't really seem feasible.