Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[Mashuna]

Billy Graham has a simple definition of sin. It is anything contrary to the will of God.

I can agree with this definition. Of course, that then means that I don't think sin exists.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Actually the Catholic policy on celibacy when it first began had more to do with economics than an aversion to sex. The church could save money if priests don't have to support a family, and they can also devote more time to their pastoral duties.

Oh, so it was not even some clash of doctrine? They actually, really, started to thwart the natural desires of all those men purely for economical reasons?? That is so evil, it must be the work of Satan!

Hans

 

[zooterkin]

I doubt God was happy when His people the Jews probably got beat when they were slaves for 400 years in Babylon and Egypt.

So God didn't create the Egyptians and Babylonians? Why would he care only about one bronze age tribe in one small corner of the world?





(Leaving aside the lack of evidence that what you described happened at all, of course.)

 

[Craig B]

The Bible which has been around for thousands of years and is the greatest selling book of all time (by most accounts) would seem like a good place to look for the will and the laws of God.

Say you so? Then your God is a monster.

Numbers 31: 3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the LORD’s vengeance on them. ... 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. ... 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. ...14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. ... 36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was: ... 40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the LORD was 32. 41 Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the LORD’s part, as the LORD commanded Moses.

The ancient scriptures contain the vilest trash ever written. They are replete with murder and rape. God commands genocide, theft, fraud, slaughter. I agree with the atheist Robert G Ingersoll (1833-99). This is not the word of any God. It is the product of primitive barbarism.

FOR many years I have regarded the Pentateuch simply as a record of a barbarous people, in which are found a great number of the ceremonies of savagery, many absurd and unjust laws, and thousands of ideas inconsistent with known and demonstrated facts. To me it seemed almost a crime to teach that this record was written by inspired men; that slavery, polygamy, wars of conquest and extermination were right, and that there was a time when men could win the approbation of infinite Intelligence, Justice, and Mercy, by violating maidens and by butchering babes. To me it seemed more reasonable that savage men had made these laws. (Some mistakes of Moses, 1879)

 

[Leumas]

Christian Taliban

The Bible which has been around for thousands of years and is the greatest selling book of all time (by most accounts) would seem like a good place to look for the will and the laws of God.

Other than the logical fallacies of majority and antiquity, you think that all these are God's will:

• killing people who work on the Sabbath
• killing people who carve or paint any images
• cutting the arms of wives who try to help their husbands in a fight
• forcing women to drink polluted water to find out if they are unfaithful
• stoning adulterers to death
• stoning disobedient children to death
• stoning anyone who doesn't believe in god to death
• burning women who we think are witches
• burning diviners and soothsayers
• stoning gays to death
• raping little girls
• genociding nations
• forcing girls to marry their rapists
• enslaving people
• selling daughters as slaves
• stoning to death a girl for not being a virgin on the night of her marriage
• stoning to death a person who blasphemes
• killing people for not selling their houses and giving ALL the proceeds to the Church
• selling road kills to strangers
• not allowing disabled people or people with crushed balls to serve as priests
• not allowing disabled people or people with crushed balls to pray in churches
• banishing people with leprosy out of society
• women should give the church a goat every time they have a period
• sacrificing daughters when god grants us a win over our enemies when we pray for it
• burning entire cities down with all its inhabitants because they worshiped other gods
• selling all our goods and give them to the poor
• plucking our eyes out
• cutting our hands off
• not working and relying on god to provide for us
• not eating lobster, prawns, squid, ham
• not eating veal alfredo
• not competing with the Joneses
• no interest rates on loans
• not wearing fabrics that are made out of mixed materials
• daily sacrifices of animals
• not touch women who are menstruating or even sit where they sat

And the list goes on and on.

So tell me DOC if that is God's will when are you going to start stoning gays and adulterers and killing girls who lose their virginity?

When DOC are you going to stop eating ham and shrimp?

When DOC are you going to give all your money to the poor?

When DOC are you going to start killing people and annihilating cities for not believing in god?

Or if you cannot do any of the above now….will you vote for a government that would do all that….it is god’s will according to the bible….is that what you want? Do you want a Christian Taliban ruling the USA according to God’s will?

 

[DrDave]

I doubt God was happy when His people the Jews probably got beat when they were slaves for 400 years in Babylon and Egypt.

Didn't happen

 

[Elizabeth I]

The Bible which has been around for thousands of years and is the greatest selling book of all time (by most accounts) would seem like a good place to look for the will and the laws of God.

When did you last have shrimp? Or wear a cotton/polyester garment? Explicit prohibitions against doing those things, and lots of other stupid stuff that would never hurt anybody, are set down as laws of God. I picked up some sticks out of my yard last Sunday. Will you be attempting to kill me now?

Actually the Catholic policy on celibacy when it first began had more to do with economics than an aversion to sex. The church could save money if priests don't have to support a family, and they can also devote more time to their pastoral duties.

Doesn't matter. They are still thwarting natural desires, and, as Hans pointed out, not even as a matter of doctrinal principle, but simply out of greed.

Seems to me like you don't appreciate playing second fiddle.

No, I don't appreciate being told I should believe in miraculous occurrences that I didn't see for myself.

 

[joobz]

Joobz implied I said all strokes are cause by sin. That is just one of "many" inaccuracies about my positions that have been stated over the last year or so.

DOC, I was giving you an opportunity to defend your position. Instead, you've fallen back to ambiguious claims that are neither defensible or intriguing.

1.) There is no evidence for a higher rate of mental illness in Europe compared to other western nations.
2.) There is no mechanistic link between what you call "sin" and mental illness.

 

[joobz]

Actually the Catholic policy on celibacy when it first began had more to do with economics than an aversion to sex. The church could save money if priests don't have to support a family, and they can also devote more time to their pastoral duties.

So many church rules are there for convenience sake and not morality?
I agree.

 

[Craig B]

DOC, I was giving you an opportunity to defend your position. Instead, you've fallen back to ambiguious claims that are neither defensible or intriguing.

1.) There is no evidence for a higher rate of mental illness in Europe compared to other western nations.
2.) There is no mechanistic link between what you call "sin" and mental illness.

joobz, I agree. But there is a link between sin and crime, and between crime and incarceration. So why don't we look at the incarceration rate per 100,000 persons in the US, compared with European countries, as shown in wiki? Any pattern here? The first number is the world ranking; the second is the incarceration rate.

1 United States 743
2 Russia 577
81 Spain 159
87 Hungary 153
92 England and Wales 150
99 Scotland 141
101 Malta 140
102 Luxembourg 139
107 Romania 132
115 Isle of Man 121
117 Bulgaria 120
127 Italy 113
129 Macedonia 109
129 Portugal 109
133 Cyprus 105
134 Guernsey 104
135 Austria 103
136 Greece 102
138 Ireland 99
142 Belgium 97
144 France 96
145 Netherlands 94
152 Germany 88
157 Switzerland 79
160 Sweden 78
160 Northern Ireland 78
164 Bosnia and Herzegovina 77
165 Monaco 76
168 Andorra 71
168 Denmark 71
168 Norway 71
173 Slovenia 67
178 Kosovo 62
183 Finland 60
190 Iceland 55
211 Liechtenstein 28
213 Faroe Islands 25

 

[Craig B]

We may add that none of the European countries practices capital punishment, so a good few of the people in jail in Europe aren't in jail in the US, because they have been put to death. This distorts the figures even more.

Looks like the Christian USA is a hotbed of sin!

 

[Cuddles]

Stay on topic and avoid making personal attacks. Edward Palamar, that mainly means you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

 

[dafydd]

The Bible which has been around for thousands of years and is the greatest selling book of all time (by most accounts) would seem like a good place to look for the will and the laws of God.

Are impotent men and men with damaged genitals allowed in your church? The bible forbids that.

 

[dafydd]

Stay on topic and avoid making personal attacks. Edward Palamar, that mainly means you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

Christian charity and brotherly love going full blast again!

 

[Akhenaten]

I doubt God was happy when His people the Jews probably got beat when they were slaves for 400 years in Babylon and Egypt.

The Babylonian and Egyptian gods were cool with it though, and since they had the most people things must have been peachy, overall.

 

[TimCallahan]

The Bible which has been around for thousands of years and is the greatest selling book of all time (by most accounts) would seem like a good place to look for the will and the laws of God.

One problem with this is that there are differences between the Old Testament (e. i. the Jewish Scriptures) and the New Testament (Christian Scriptures). At first, this would seem to simplify things, were one to take the position that the Christ Scriptures superceded the Jewish Scriptures. Not only would we not have to deal with all the purity laws etc., but the example set by Jesus in his dealings with the woman who was a sinner (probably a prostitute) who anointed his feet and the woman taken in adultery would also suggest a more forgiving attitude toward sexual sins. Add to this that Jesus only forbade divorce because in his day it meant men putting away their wives and the fact that he says nothing about homosexuality, and one would expect that sexual sins would be of a comparatively minor concern for Christians.

However, back in the 1970s, when a law liberalizing sexual laws, making all sexual acts done in private between consenting adults legal, came up for discussion in the California State legislature, conservative Christian legislators opposed to this law fulminated against it, liberally quoting the condemnation of fornication and homosexuality in Leviticus in the process. However, they didn't quote all the laws saying that women were unclean during their menstrual periods.

Consider also that the civil rights movement, spearheaded by Martin Luther King and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, used as a slogan Moses' demand (on behalf of Yahweh) to Pharaoh, "Let my people go!" While this would seem to invoke God's law, it ignores the many verses in both the Old and New Testaments legitimizing slavery.

Thus, it would appear that those who want to follow God's law often cherry pick which laws to follow.

 

[X]

Thus, it would appear that those who want to follow God's law often cherry pick which laws to follow.

Which is exactly why, when DOC asked me where I get my morality from, I said "The same place you do".
(In the "Iran Hangs 3 Homosexuals" thread)

 

[welshdean]

Are impotent men and men with damaged genitals allowed in your church? The bible forbids that.

If DOC's god made me suffer either of these I reckon I'd be a bit 'muddled upstairs', adding to the 'Euro-Crazies' list.

Having said that I have got a few suits, does that make me impotent?

 

[zooterkin]

If DOC's god made me suffer either of these I reckon I'd be a bit 'muddled upstairs', adding to the 'Euro-Crazies' list.

Having said that I have got a few suits, does that make me impotent?

I don't know, but your avatar and custom title suggest you might not be playing with a full pack.

 

[welshdean]

I don't know, but your avatar and custom title suggest you might not be playing with a full pack.

It's comments like this that make me mad. I mean crazy. No nuts. Aw forget it.