Is Islam an evil religion?

[bikerdruid]

AH HA !! Now I have figured you out.!! You cannot explain why it is wrong!! I have shown you for who you really are!! You cannot explain why it is wrong but you know it is. I know why it is and I can explain why. Can you? I will give you a hint. It is wrong not because it is mean. I asked you what makes racism wrong and you cannot explain it. You have reveiled how you really think and who you really are. This is great. We are finally getting somewhere.

this post is just strange, bill.
racism comes from blind hatred...i said that.
what are you on about?

 

[bikerdruid]

The worst part of Christianity and Islam isn't the violence, it's enslaving minds. Infecting brains with parasites that control the hosts. Prayer, sacrifice, rejection of science, ignorance over enlightenment. In that way they are the same.

agreed.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Islam is not like Chirstianity. All the leaders of each Christian sects insist that the Bible is not to be interpreted literally.

All of them? Care to name some of them?

It is not like that with the Quran.

Evidence please.

Lots of Chirstians do not take all the violent evil stuff in the Bible literally anymore.

And lots of Muslims ignore the violent parts of the Koran. It's amazing how similar Muslims and Christians are in that regard.

It is not like that with Islam and the Quran. The Quran really is thought to be the literal word of God, as in it came from God's mouth. So if the Quran bashes gays, or anyone else, it is rational for Muslims to feel that if they hang homosexuals, like they do in Iran, it makes God happy.

Your view of the subject is childishly simple. Muslims, just like Christians, or any other religion, range from extremist fundamentalists to liberal and open. Your assertion that all "real" Christians know the Bible as a book of allegories and parables in which the horrific parts can be ignored, while all "real" Muslims view the Koran as the literal word of God that must be obeyed to the letter, even the violent parts, is so simple-minded that I have difficulty believing that you aren't truly aware of the fallacy of your argument and are simply plowing ahead because you think that you have to avoid admitting error at all costs.

And this is why Islam beats Christianity in the gay bashing rhelm, hands down
Yet nowhere in the Koran are Muslims specifically commanded to kill homosexuals. The Bible, on the other hand, makes perfectly clear how its god demands followers treat homosexuals.

I have explained this already. You insist I do it again. I did it again. Explain why do I give you this much respect when you do not have the respect to go back and find where I had already explained this? Do you consider yourself to be an ingrate?

Is this how you intend to gain the upper hand in this debate? You intend to do a treasure hunt for something you can pull out of context and make an issue out of? And then ask me to explain it again and again and again and again and again until I get tired and you feel you have accomplished something by attrition when all you have done is demonstrate the extent that you can be annoying?

I pulled nothing out of context. It is transparently obvious that you are trying to avoid admitting that you were inarguably wrong about the content of the Bible versus the Koran regarding homosexuality. Attempting to create elaborate excuses will not hide this fact.

Yes I can. That is a true statement you made right there. Congrats.

Are you admitting that your statement regarding the number of anti-homosexual verses in the Bible was wrong?

 

[Bill Thompson]

this post is just strange, bill.

racism comes from blind hatred...i said that.
what are you on about?

Biker Druid Epic Fail

WRONG number 13, I think.

BikerDruid, you have confirmed what I have suspected. You do not know right from wrong. In your mind, if something sounds "mean" it is wrong. Either that or you choose to what to believe and what to dismiss based on how it makes you feel.

Racism is wrong for logical reasons. It is wrong because it is a lie. The black people in factories in Chicago who were escaped slaves or descendants of escaped slaves had a higher IQ than the slave owners in the south or the descendants of slave owners. But that is just one fact. Racism is a lie because, simply, race itself is a lie. It is a nonsensical method of classifying people.

Right or wrong is not determined on what sounds mean or not. Tolerance is not love. Tolerance is not compassion. These are three separate things.

It is foolish to think of racism and intolerance of a religion as being similar things.

If I came to a university to give a lecture about evolution, using your twisted logic, I should not be able to do that because it could be deemed as religious hate speech. Some biblical fundamentalists would be upset if I gave a lecture promoting evolution. So, to you, I would be giving religious hate speech.

I think you decide to be for or against something to join a bandwaggon. I accuse you of not thinking for yourself. Then you insist that you do think things out for yourself.

But you are

WRONG AGAIN, number 14

Your claim that you think for yourself is demonstrated by you to be invalid and a falsehood.

 

[Bill Thompson]

All of them? Care to name some of them?

The Pope. Specifically, John Paul II.

Yes, all of them. I have heard this from a number of sources and from even a number of ministers.

Christ, man, you want me to teach you AND do your homework for you? WHy would I do that given the relentless and unending and boundless lack of respect you shovel out upon me like a maintance man servicing a septic tank?

 

[RandFan]

If you are intolerant of any religion then please be intolerant of all religions. They indoctrinate children to think faith is a virtue.

 

[Lowpro]

RacismBigotry is wrong for logical reasons. It is wrong because it is a lie. The black people The people of Islam (Muslims) in factories in Chicago who were escaped slaves or descendants of escaped slaves practice Islam had have a higher IQ not had any noticeable practice of proposed evil(s) of Islam than the slave owners Muslims in the south wherever you find em

Edited for irony.

 

[Bill Thompson]

If you are intolerant of any religion then please be intolerant of all religions. They indoctrinate children to think faith is a virtue.

Yeah, I know. But the argument people have used here to bash another religions is somehow used to try to elevate Islam. Two, three or four wrongs do not make a right. If you want to bash another religion there are lots of other disucssion threads to start or join. I might join them too.

 

[bikerdruid]

Biker Druid Epic Fail

WRONG number 13, I think.

BikerDruid, you have confirmed what I have suspected. You do not know right from wrong. In your mind, if something sounds "mean" it is wrong. Either that or you choose to what to believe and what to dismiss based on how it makes you feel.

Racism is wrong for logical reasons. It is wrong because it is a lie. The black people in factories in Chicago who were escaped slaves or descendants of escaped slaves had a higher IQ than the slave owners in the south or the descendants of slave owners. But that is just one fact. Racism is a lie because, simply, race itself is a lie. It is a nonsensical method of classifying people.

Right or wrong is not determined on what sounds mean or not. Tolerance is not love. Tolerance is not compassion. These are three separate things.

It is foolish to think of racism and intolerance of a religion as being similar things.

If I came to a university to give a lecture about evolution, using your twisted logic, I should not be able to do that because it could be deemed as religious hate speech. Some biblical fundamentalists would be upset if I gave a lecture promoting evolution. So, to you, I would be giving religious hate speech.

I think you decide to be for or against something to join a bandwaggon. I accuse you of not thinking for yourself. Then you insist that you do think things out for yourself.

But you are

WRONG AGAIN, number 14

Your claim that you think for yourself is demonstrated by you to be invalid and a falsehood.

so racism only applies to blacks, but it is a lie and does not exist at all?
your raving is getting stranger bill.
this is irrational.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The Pope. Specifically, John Paul II.

That's one. Can you provide a citation?

Yes, all of them. I have heard this from a number of sources and from even a number of ministers.

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy was formulated in October 1978 by more than 200 evangelical leaders at a conference sponsored by the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, held in Chicago. The statement was designed to defend the position of Biblical inerrancy against a perceived trend toward liberal conceptions of Scripture. The undersigners came from a variety of evangelical Christian denominations, and include James Montgomery Boice, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, J. I. Packer, Francis Schaeffer, and R. C. Sproul.

WE AFFIRM the necessity of interpreting the Bible according to its literal, or normal, sense. The literal sense is the grammatical-historical sense, that is, the meaning which the writer expressed. Interpretation according to the literal sense will take account of all figures of speech and literary forms found in the text. WE DENY the legitimacy of any approach to Scripture that attributes to it meaning which the literal sense does not support.

Christ, man, you want me to teach you AND do your homework for you? WHy would I do that given the relentless and unending and boundless lack of respect you shovel out upon me like a maintance man servicing a septic tank?

It's funny that you should use that analogy.

 

[Bill Thompson]

John Brown did the right thing. He was an abolishionist -- or as you would say, a "Slavery Bigot" or maybe "Confederatephobic".

The fact that you do not understand the full extent why it was the right thing and why doing the right thing is sometimes unpopular and seems hurtful on the surface, is saddening.

John Brown did the right thing. It was not so popular and it cost him. The song "Glory Glory... His Truth is Marching On..." was about him.

It is not helpful or loving to Muslims to be tolerant of Islam. It imprisons minds as Ibn Waraq says -- and he is not a hateful biased person. He does not hate Muslims even if he hates Islam. Even if most Muslims are good or in the dark it will continue to generate terrorism just like Wafa Sultan says -- and she is not a hateful biased person. She does not hate Muslims yet she hates Islam

 

[RandFan]

Nonsense Bill. Humans and religion can mix for both good and bad. Inquisitions, crusades, burning witches. We have plenty of examples of Christians acting badly.

We need to reduce or eradicate religion in general.

 

[bikerdruid]

We need to reduce or eradicate religion in general.

bill's startin' on muslims 'n mormons.

 

[FireGarden]

The Quran really is thought to be the literal word of God, as in it came from God's mouth.

How does that mean that the words are supposed to be taken literally?
What about verse 3:7 which says that parts of the Quran are allegorical? Is that to be taken literally?

Yes I can. That is a true statement you made right there. Congrats.

Bill, you didn't refer to the claim in your original statement. Having another weak excuse to believe the conclusion doesn't back up your original claim. Sans the conclusion, here is the statement: "There are four passages in the Quran that at anti-gay. There is only one in the Bible." Your failure to admit your error makes me suspect that your scholarship is substandard.

There are four passages in the Quran that at anti-gay. There is only one in the Bible. The quran wins the hate contest hands-down.

Just one? Let's list them:

1 - Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

2 - Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

3 - Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

So that's three certainly, with a possible two more in the form of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and 1 Timothy 1:8–10, depending on the meaning of "ἀρσενοκοίτης" which comes from the Greek words "ἄρσην", meaning "male" and "κοίτην" which means "bed, with a sexual connotation" and has been variously translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind", "sodomites" or "men who practice homosexuality". So now it's at least three to four, possibly five to four, but with one Biblical passage clearly calling for the murder of homosexuals.

 

[Craig B]

Fire Garden

A fourth. Epistle of Jude:

[4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. [6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. [7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. [8] Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

So now the Quran and the Bible are equal 4 each!

 

[Bill Thompson]

Something has to be factually inaccurate to be labeled "Hate Speech". Just because words hurt someone's feelings, those words are not "Hate Speech". The truth is never "hate speech". Speaking out against a religion -- especially one that abuses women and children -- is not hate speech.

Labeling something as "hate speech" just because you do not want to hear or believe it kills progress and science. When people are free to say what they learn or discover, good science and understanding happens. And this is good for everyone. Science and understanding helps all of us. Charles Darwin is one example when he discovered evolution, or as you might call "Myth Bigotry".

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I have noticed four logical fallacies you use over and over and over.
1. Ad Hominem -- you do not like what I say so you attack me personally
2. Pios Fraud -- It does not matter that Islam is a lie, it is still somehow good for people
3. Non Sequitur -- Islam is ok because Christianty is bad.
4. Post Hoc -- So and so did these massive killings and so and so is a Christian. So Christianity caused so and so to do these massive killings just like Islam caused 9-11

 

[Ethnikos]

To answer what the thread title seems to be asking, Only from the point of view of another religion which is itself, evil.
Islam is the counterbalance to an apostate religion that may have been ok a long time ago but went bad. God knew this was going to happen so raised up a prophet to create a nation which was holy to him to prevent the degenerate church from having its way with the world.

 

[Bill Thompson]

How does that mean that the words are supposed to be taken literally?
What about verse 3:7 which says that parts of the Quran are allegorical? Is that to be taken literally?

That is not what it means. Nor is it what I meant. God speaks in the first person for almost the entire Quran

 

[Bill Thompson]

How
Bill, you didn't refer to the claim in your original statement. Having another weak excuse to believe the conclusion doesn't back up your original claim. Sans the conclusion, here is the statement: "There are four passages in the Quran that at anti-gay. There is only one in the Bible." Your failure to admit your error makes me suspect that your scholarship is substandard.

Good job. Do you know that 4 is still greater in number than 3?

If I miss two that you caught that does not make all my argumets substandard or my points incorrect.

 

[Bill Thompson]

To answer what the thread title seems to be asking, Only from the point of view of another religion which is itself, evil.
Islam is the counterbalance to an apostate religion that may have been ok a long time ago but went bad. God knew this was going to happen so raised up a prophet to create a nation which was holy to him to prevent the degenerate church from having its way with the world.

Do you remember when the brits in the house of commons were asking Tony Blare why the UK was taking out Saddam when there were so many other dictators on Earth to worry about?

And I have to warn you, be careful when you say things out of jest. Were you serious about the hilited section? If you were, I suggest you look for the "Apostates of Islam" on the internet.