Could the very high rate of mental illness in Europe be related to religion decline?

[TimCallahan]

Where, which post says the American rate is higher than 38%. And we are not talking about a once in a lifetime occurrence, we are talking the current rate.

Here:http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/09/03/cdc-statistics-mental-illness-in-the-us/. This, of course is for mental illnes over a lifetime, so you may decide that disqualifies these findings.

You might also want to look here, http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040601/rate-of-mental-illness-is-staggering?page=2, where the WHO says that the U.S. leads all other countries with a current mental illness rate of 24%, followed closely by the Ukraine, the only country in the study whose alcoholism rate exceeds that of the U.S. I should point out that this study apparently focused on anxiety, depression and drug dependency, while the study of Europe you cited in the OP included strokes and senile dementias.

Herein, I suspect, lies the rub: We may be talking past one another. Consider this quote from the study you cited in your OP:

A direct comparison of the prevalence of mental illnesses in other parts of the world was not available because different studies adopt varying parameters.

Thus, we have no way of knowing if, were the same parameters applied in the same year, the U.S. rates (not measured in this study) would be higher, lower or comparable to those in Europe.

I submit that you have failed to demonstrate any correlation between decline of religion and increased rates of mental illness. BTW, in arguing that mental illness rates are higher in the U.S., I am not arguing this is the dault of religion per se. What I see in all these statistics are the following:

1) As life expectancy increases, rates of mental illness related to senile dementias, strokes and depression will rise. Therefore, we will see higher rates of mental illness in developed nations than in underdeveloped nations.

2) Much mental illness in underdeveloped nations goes unreported due to lack of any infrastructure that includes psychiatric screening and treatment.

3) Idiosyncratic factors peculiar to given nations contribute greatly to rates of mental illness. These include the following: greater stress in the U.S. than in Canada, due to the U.S. being more heavily involved in international conflicts; seasonal affective disorder contributing to stress, anxiety and depression in northern countries; internal civil strife in places like Lebanon; and conditional stresses fueled by economic recession in the U.S. and Europe.

 

[DOC]

Sin is a completely made-up concept...

Not to most of the 82% of Americans and the 52% of Europeans who say they believe in God.

I would imagine the above people would say the Holocaust is a sin.

 

[joobz]

Not to most of the 82% of Americans and the 52% of Europeans who say they believe in God.

I would imagine the above people would say the Holocaust is a sin.

Are you now saying that since Sin may cause stroke and the Holocaust is a sin,
that the Holocaust is causing strokes in Modern Europeans?

 

[Lothian]

Not to most of the 82% of Americans and the 52% of Europeans who say they believe in God.

I would imagine the above people would say the Holocaust is a sin.

Was the Holocaust what the Christians in Germany did to the Jews?

 

[DOC]

DOC is confronted with evidence that the level of mental illness in Europe is lower than in the USA.

Where, which post says the American rate is higher than 38%. And we are not talking about a once in a lifetime occurrence, we are talking the current rate.

Here:http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2011/09/03/cdc-statistics-mental-illness-in-the-us/. This, of course is for mental illnes over a lifetime, so you may decide that disqualifies these findings...

The link in post one is not talking about over a life time, it is talking about each year. Quote from the link cited in post #1:

Europeans are plagued by mental and neurological illnesses, with almost 165 million people or 38 percent of the population suffering each year from a brain disorder such as depression, anxiety, insomnia or dementia, according to a large new study.

You might also want to look here, http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20040601/rate-of-mental-illness-is-staggering?page=2, where the WHO says that the U.S. leads all other countries with a current mental illness rate of 24%, followed closely by the Ukraine, the only country in the study whose alcoholism rate exceeds that of the U.S. I should point out that this study apparently focused on anxiety, depression and drug dependency, while the study of Europe you cited in the OP included strokes and senile dementias.

Herein, I suspect, lies the rub: We may be talking past one another. Consider this quote from the study you cited in your OP:

A direct comparison of the prevalence of mental illnesses in other parts of the world was not available because different studies adopt varying parameters.

Thus, we have no way of knowing if, were the same parameters applied in the same year, the U.S. rates (not measured in this study) would be higher, lower or comparable to those in Europe.

Then people in here should stop saying the evidence shows the rates in Europe are lower.

 

[DOC]

Are you now saying that since Sin may cause stroke and the Holocaust is a sin,
that the Holocaust is causing strokes in Modern Europeans?

I maintain your statement makes no sense.

 

[Akhenaten]

Not to most of the 82% of Americans and the 52% of Europeans who say they believe in God.

The people who subscribe to the made-up concept of god believe in the made-up concept of sin?

Well, there's a surprise.

I would imagine the above people would say the Holocaust is a sin.

And 87%* of the people whom you ask "What does Harry Potter do with his wand?" will say "Magic".

Does this mean that magic exists?




*13% of people have their mind in the gutter. Figures are approximate.

 

[joobz]

I maintain your statement makes no sense.

I agree, but it is the logical conclusion from your argument:

Let's see, shall we?

Personal and societal sin could be a contributing factor to the causing of physical disorders.

you claim that Sin may causes physical disease.
you even give an example:

If overworking your employees is a sin. Then the physical strokes which might have been caused by that overwork is related to sin even though it is physical in nature.

In Fact, even your example suggests that sin of one person can result in disease in another.

You then post:

I would imagine the above people would say the Holocaust is a sin.

The logical conclusion that the holocaust is a sin would be that the holocaust causes physical disorders, in this case strokes (since that's the topic here.)


But, of course, you will assert that the causal nature between the two (holocaust and stroke) is tenuous. i agree.
So let's look at another issue:

Leading risk factor for strokes is old age.
are you going to tell me that being old is a sin?

Is old age a sin?

Or, how about:

DOC, The leading cause of vaginal prolapse(the vagina inverting out of the body) is multiple child births.

Vaginal prolapse is a physical disease.
You suggest that Sin Causes Disease.
Vaginal prolapse is most commonly caused by multiple child births.
Does this mean that "Being fruitful and multiplying" is a sin?

 

[Akhenaten]

Then people in here should stop saying the evidence shows the rates in Europe are lower.

They should start lying? How will that help?

 

[Akhenaten]

I maintain your statement makes no sense.

It appears that your subjective judgement has gone awry. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Leumas]

Was the Holocaust what the Christians in Germany did to the Jews?

How about when almost 100% of Europeans where believers in God and mostly the Christian one and yet they forced Jews to live in Ghettos and instituted Pogroms and Inquisitions and Expulsions?

What about the ENGLISH expulsion the Jews 1290

How about what Martin Luther said in his 7 remedies against the jews in the book The Jews and Their Lies. He called for:

1. Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight
2. houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings
3. their religious writings to be taken away
4. rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do
5. safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews
6. usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"
7. the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor

The above by the way were the guideline that the Nazis used for their actions.

 

[DOC]

How about when almost 100% of Europeans where believers in God and mostly the Christian one and yet they forced Jews to live in Ghettos and instituted Pogroms and Inquisitions and Expulsions?

What about the ENGLISH expulsion the Jews 1290

How about what Martin Luther said in his 7 remedies against the jews in the book The Jews and Their Lies. He called for:

1. Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight
2. houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings
3. their religious writings to be taken away
4. rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do
5. safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews
6. usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"
7. the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave labor

The above by the way were the guideline that the Nazis used for their actions.

Martin Luther will be accountable for sins just like everyone else. I know of no modern Christian denominations that wouldn't denounce these Luther's teachings.

And all this is off topic. I simply used the Holocaust as an example of what people would consider as a sin, not to get deeply into the Holocaust.

 

[Resume]

Martin Luther will be accountable for sins just like everyone else. I know of no modern Christian denominations that wouldn't denounce these Luther's teachings.

And all this is off topic. I simply used the Holocaust as an example of what people would consider as a sin, not to get deeply into the Holocaust.

Your fault then.

 

[citizenzen]

I simply used the Holocaust as an example of what people would consider as a sin, not to get deeply into the Holocaust.

It's considered a crime ... tried in court, not in church, by judges and lawyers, not pastors and elders.

 

[DOC]

The logical conclusion that the holocaust is a sin would be that the holocaust causes physical disorders, in this case strokes (since that's the topic here.)


But, of course, you will assert that the causal nature between the two (holocaust and stroke) is tenuous. i agree.

So then I assume you believe the sin of the Holocaust did not increase the amount of strokes or physical ailments among the millions of Jews who experienced it.

Thus, I assume you believe that having almost all of your possessions taken, being separated from your loved ones, being crammed into cattle cars for hundreds of miles, and being put in dirty camps guarded by armed soldiers did not increase the incidences of strokes or physical disorders among those people experiencing it.

 

[citizenzen]

So then I assume ...

You would be assuming wrong, Doc.

You really need to take a moment and read these posts carefully.

As you seem to have a hard time comprehending them.

 

[DOC]

It's considered a crime ... tried in court, not in church, by judges and lawyers, not pastors and elders.

But it wouldn't be considered a crime in Nazi Germany. So whether or not the Holocaust is wrong is relative without a higher authority like God to say it is wrong. So from an atheist perspective if Germany won the war (which probably would have happened it they got the atomic bomb first) the Holocaust would not have been a crime, since Nazi Germany courts would obviously not have ruled it a crime.

 

[Leumas]

Martin Luther will be accountable for sins just like everyone else. I know of no modern Christian denominations that wouldn't denounce these Luther's teachings.

And all this is off topic. I simply used the Holocaust as an example of what people would consider as a sin, not to get deeply into the Holocaust.

Martin Luther died a baptized Jesus lover....so he will NEVER pay for his sins.

Have you forgotten your Christian Salvation and Atonement principles?

Have you forgotten Paul in Galatians, Corinthians, and Romans?

Have you forgotten Mark 16:16?

In fact according to the Christian Theology the Jews who were massacred by the Christians will roast in Hell and the ones who extirpated them will have the Eternal Heavenly Servitude in heaven.

 

[DOC]

Martin Luther died a baptized Jesus lover....so he will NEVER pay for his sins.

Not according to Jesus who said not everyone who says Lord, Lord, with enter the kingdom of heaven.

He also talked of those who had Him on their lips but not in their hearts.

 

[joobz]

So then I assume you believe the sin of the Holocaust did not increase the amount of strokes or physical ailments among the millions of Jews who experienced it.

Let me understand you:
Are you saying that the holocaust is a sin because it causes physical disease in people?

Or are you claiming that sins cause physical diseases as a punishment?

How does that logic apply to Vaginal Prolapse?
Vaginal prolapse is a physical disease.
You suggest that Sin Causes Disease.
Vaginal prolapse is most commonly caused by multiple child births.
Does this mean that "Being fruitful and multiplying" is a sin?