UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Resume]

There are privacy and copyright issues. What I can give you are approximate coodinates for Google Earth. Open Google Earth and plug them into the search and they'll get you close enough.

Object came up from behind Four Points Mountain: 50°28'21.05" N 115°53'25.74"W ( almost exactly )

Landing Zone Aprox: 50°26'32.96" N 115°56'34.17" W ( within a few hundered meters & definitely east of the highway )

My viewing location was on the west side of the lake about 3 Km from the LZ. at about 3000 ft. ( exact location witheld for privacy reasons ).
QUOTE]

All this from a "sighting" of mere seconds. Through a window. In the wee hours. From a memory unless you had a map handy after you woke up . . . I mean your first sighting.

 

[EHocking]

EHocking:

So you say you've seen UFOs twice. Ok let's compare that to the foremost UFO investigators definition of a UFO, Astronomer J. Allen Hynek of the presigious Center For UFO Studies:

UFO:

"The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible."

Did your UFO sightings conform to the above definition? I will give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that as a reasonably intelligent person, you are technically capable of making your own common sense identification, and that after close scrutiny, you remained of the opinion that you saw a UFO?

Am I correct ... or was it something you were able to identify after close scrutiny?

I have absolutely no reasonable explanation for the first sighting (three green lights in "formation") and a possible, mundane explanation for the second (a fireball).

But since I have never been able to identify the source of the sightings, the "flying" "objects" remain "unidentified" - so UFO by definition.

Oh, and the first ones I saw when I was a young teen and ran inside declaring that I'd seen UFOs.
At no stage, even then, did I think that they were alien craft - just something I couldn't identify.

ETA: Erik Von Daniken had put me pretty straight by then on the inadequacy of stupid explanations for intriguing artifacts and anecdotes after excitedly starting to read "Chariots of the Gods".

 

[Aepervius]

All this from a "sighting" of mere seconds. Through a window. In the wee hours. From a memory unless you had a map handy after you woke up . . . I mean your first sighting.

Welll.... I have another hypotheses : it was a reflection from behind him .

 

[spin0]

One of the things that has been bandied about here is that military pilots are trained observers and that their word is totally true.
<snip>
But everyone makes mistakes, no matter how experienced. There is no magic shield that ensures total accuracy. The rest of your comments also depend highly on the experience level, Military pilots are for the most part, just like anyone else, except for the highly specialized training and the mindset.
Some of the best witnesses possible? Some are, some aren't. Not concoct fabrications? You're probably right, I've never seen it but who knows.
PD

Here's an interesting and well reseached article about pilot and astronaut Gordon Cooper's UFO-stories vs. reality: In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs. Most of the misrepresentations and fabrications were later made up by ufologists and not by Cooper, but his own tall stories played their part too.

 

[RoboTimbo]

ufology, any chance of you not running away from the difficult questions?:

Why are UFOs [using your definition] sometimes later found to be mundane?

Do you think there are people who have misperceived something and thought it was an alien spaceship?

 

[carlitos]

high-larious

There are privacy and copyright issues.

What a dishonest, cowardly response.

within a few hundered meters

LOL

( exact location witheld for privacy reasons ).

lulz

The altitude of the object when it departed appeared to be at around 4608ft.

4608 ft, eh? Nice round number.

 

[23_Tauri]

Ufology, perhaps this will help

 

[edge]

Your category is UFO's
please choose a question on the following
birds, ducks, squid, blimps, unproven alien space craft, Air force black projects, misidentified mundanity, stars, planets, alcohol, dreams, lightning bugs, meteors, comets, FSM, hot air balloons, small balloons, hoaxes, breached logging contracts, imagination, cute dogs, falling over and hitting your head, drugs, streetlights, office lights, oil well fires, the Archangel Gabriel, early depictions of the zodiac, N.A.S.A. lies, the insane.........

It's not an unknown if you use those explanations in yellow.
I'm talking about the 10% that are not one of those in yellow.
Nasa has some footage that is unknown.
The sighting I had that no one commented on was still an unknown, but it was an advanced flying conveyance that was not defiantly one of ours either.
Then you are left with only five or six other explanations once you know for sure it's not one of ours either.
I was as clean as I could be in the aspects of drinking, drugs and smoking.
So we are left with only a few possibilities.
These few explanations you won't accept either because you don't believe those either.
But that's what we are left with.
So this is where you have a problem.
Like those things in yellow I have seen and mistaken for possible UFOs but were ruled out, but there are about 7 sightings I have had that were only one of the six or so other explanations that are a possibility.
These are 5 or 6 that you will also dismiss simply because you want to believe that we are in control and there is nothing else but humans and human explanations.
So in a sense you all are UFO fundamentalists.
You are stuck in your ways of thinking.
The 7 or so sightings I have seen that I can’t explain in a mundane nature only fit into the explanations that are left and they all fall into one of those 5 or 6 explanations we are left with that you will not accept.
Simply because you haven’t had a real sighting…just because you have had mundane sightings you can explain away doesn’t mean squat, because they were explainable, I have had 100s of those.

 

[carlitos]

Just a heads up for ufology:

This webpage is not available
Google Chrome could not load the webpage because www.ufopages.com took too long to respond. The website may be down, or you may be experiencing issues with your Internet connection.

 

[Resume]

It's not an unknown if you use those explanations in yellow.
I'm talking about the 10% that are not one of those in yellow.
Nasa has some footage that is unknown.
The sighting I had that no one commented on was still an unknown, but it was an advanced flying conveyance that was not defiantly one of ours either.
Then you are left with only five or six other explanations once you know for sure it's not one of ours either.
I was as clean as I could be in the aspects of drinking, drugs and smoking.
So we are left with only a few possibilities.
These few explanations you won't accept either because you don't believe those either.
But that's what we are left with.
So this is where you have a problem.
Like those things in yellow I have seen and mistaken for possible UFOs but were ruled out, but there are about 7 sightings I have had that were only one of the six or so other explanations that are a possibility.
These are 5 or 6 that you will also dismiss simply because you want to believe that we are in control and there is nothing else but humans and human explanations.
So in a sense you all are UFO fundamentalists.
You are stuck in your ways of thinking.
The 7 or so sightings I have seen that I can’t explain in a mundane nature only fit into the explanations that are left and they all fall into one of those 5 or 6 explanations we are left with that you will not accept.
Simply because you haven’t had a real sighting…just because you have had mundane sightings you can explain away doesn’t mean squat, because they were explainable, I have had 100s of those.

You are consciously omitting a likely prospect. You were mistaken.

 

[Astrophotographer]

I'm sure you appreciate that distances and speeds can be calculated without a radar or measuring tape. And I don't make the claim that my distance and speed estimates are perfect. However from the landmarks of known distance and the flight path of the object and the time it took to travel between those marks, distances and speeds can be estimated.


Distance:

• I used a map of the area.
• Established where on the map I was observing from.
• Established where on the map where the mountain the object came over was located and measured that distance from there to my point of observation.
• Measured the distance from where I was observing to where the object appeared to have landed ( east of the highway on the other side of the lake ).

The observation of the object going down behind the trees on the other side of the lake means it had to be at least as far away as the lake is wide, plus the distance up to the where it landed. There is no way that anyone could see a firefly at that distance. It works out to about 3Km.

Speed:

• When the object ascended just prior to departing, it rose vertically, and hovered for a few seconds. I used that position as the starting point for calculation of speed.
• Just before it departed, it got very bright and it instantly accellerated north up the valley out of sight. Because it was so bright I could see the object until it was gone from view, and it left a streak of light behind it.
• I had a clear view of the mountains on the east range for well over 25km and the object never rose above them when it departed.
• I looked on the map and established where the object went out of sight. By visually comparing the mountains it had travelled past to those on the map I was able to establish various distances from the starting point to those landmarks. The farthest was well over 25Km away. I simply used the number 25 because it is convenient for making the calculations that indicate the object could outperform anything known.

Time:

• It's not too hard to estimate about 1 second of time. For example, did you ever learn to estimate the distance of lightning using the time from the flash to the sound of the thunder? I also learned to play guitar and was familiar with precision timing with a metronome. Some here seem to ridicule this. Obviously they never learned precision timing and haven't got the insight to realize how accurate a musicians timing has to be. But even if you presume a musician can't tell the difference between 1 second and 2 seconds or 3 seconds ... you still get an extraordinary number for speed and accelleration.

Intelligence:

• The object performed precise maneuvers from a precise start and stop location more than once.
• When it departed, it navigated between the mountain ranges and did not move erratically.

So even with reasonable tolerances, and conservative estimates, given the appearance and performance capability, and apparent intelligence, I have ruled out every known natural or manmade object I'm aware of. Furthermore, it seems so far beyond any secret technology since revealed from 1970s, that I don't believe it was any secret human devised technology from then, or for that matter even now. If you can think of anything, by all means post it and I'll consider it.

Hmmm.....estimates made of an unknown object in the dark......I just don't think these estimates can be considered reliable. To quote Dr. Hynek (the patron saint of all UFOlogists):

...it is obvious that it would usually be impossible for observers to make reliable estimates of the speed, distance, or size of such stimulus objects. It is not possible to estimate accurately the distance of small bright objects viewed against a clear sky, unless the object is identified first...It must be concluded, therefore, that most of the statements of speed, distance, altitude, and size are entirely unreliable and should be disregarded. This is doubly true of observations made at night.
(Steiger - Project Blue Book Page 228)

So, I have a hard time accepting your estimates as being reliable. Many of your descriptions sound like a bright fireball but some do not. Then again, we don't know how long between you saw this and when you documented it. Was it written down in a UFO report somewhere promptly so others can determine if this recollection is correct? Or is it possible that you may have "misremembered" some of the details, which get better with each retelling (a common issue with UFO reports).

I am also curious as to why you did not go to the impact/landing spot if you knew where that was? Did you go? If you did, what did you find? Do you have physical evidence that can be tested?

Do you have a date and time for this momentous event? At least we can declare that reliable (unless you forgot the date).

 

[Sideroxylon]

Just a heads up for ufology:

It appears to be down for some clearly non-mundane unknown reasons. My money is on a U.S. intelligence agency.

 

[Toke]

It appears to be down for some clearly non-mundane unknown reasons. My money is on a U.S. intelligence agency.

That is possible, but I find interference from the Greys more likely considering how close he is to blowing their whole operation out of the sky.

 

[edge]

You are consciously omitting a likely prospect. You were mistaken.

Or I am insane?
But not 7 times.
If I was insane wouldn’t you think that my family members would have noticed and done something about it by now?

I was two when we moved to Gary Indiana from France.

When I was two, I could also speak three languages. So in one I remember asking my parents, who seemed memorized by the sky one day, as they stood on the back porch two stories up, looking up from there.

I asked what the loud voices were about, that is what drew me back there from play.
No answers can from them to me directly; as now they spoke to each other in German, which I could not understand so at this point I realized that I could see out of the knothole in the wood to get the answers, the window was much higher than I could reach to see through.

As I peered out I could only see what was taking place on the ground in the alley, the angle of the knothole was set in such a way by chance placement of the board when the structure was built, that its line of sight was pointing downward.

As I recall there were two patrol cars and a crowd of people numbering in the twenty’s or so.
The police were all looking up while the one Gary policeman had a megaphone that he was speaking through.
It was what he was saying that stuck in my mind, he repeated this, “bring your craft down your in violation of city air space”. They did this repeatedly for quite some time.

I asked several more times what was going on and to lift me up, so I could see better, but they refused to do so.
They wouldn’t tell me what it was they were looking at and the relationship to what was taking place.
My parents were protective about what was in the sky that day with their Old world ways and customs.
They were going to shield me from seeing what was there and one of my parents was saying to the other, basically, “ take him away from here”.

I was persistent and refused to leave when they simply asked me to leave the area,
I believed I out maneuvered their attempts at capture when that became their effort, so they turned their efforts to psychology and then used the approach that the cops were after me and they were trying to protect me from them by telling me to go and hide in the house, they were basically helping to hide me out from them.

It was the old cops are after you trick, which worked immediately to serve their purpose of shielding me from the unknown, which was to get me away from the commotion down below in the ally and sky.

So I ran into the house and hid for a time, even though I had no real idea what the cops were all about.
I went in and quickly went in play mood and I gave no more thought to the weirdness out back till I turned seventeen it was then in my teens that I had a remembrance of the incident as a dream brought it all back and I asked again at breakfast that morning.

I was never really interested in this sort of subject matter but my memories became so clear after all that time I had to ask, never knowing that it would lead to the subject matter of unknown.
It happened in the summer of my 17th year, I asked the questions after dreaming about that day, that morning at breakfast.

So it was my mother Kathy that I asked, I asked,
" Mom do you remember the house we lived in when I was about two? The one on Jefferson Street?"
I then repeated what I wrote above.
She repeated exactly what I have said about what I knew about that day and then told me exactly all the details of what was going on that day which I had no idea of, which then made more sense to me, at least somewhat.
She also added to the story,

" There was a call put out from the Gary airport area for a plane to observe the incident, this is where, at that time, they had a Nike Missile base next to and near the airport and they obviously had radar at the time, but the cops had got to the scene first, they were on it, as multiple witnesses had called in, the police were there in action."

When she described the incident, She said,
" that a white ball of light, solid looking, was hovering about 700 to1000 feet or so above the ally". She also said,
"it was silent and totally stationary, thirty to forty feet across, it was at this time, near the end of the incident that I turned and ran into the house to hide".

She Said, "That someone probably the military sent a small plane probably from the Nike missile base that use to be there by the Gary airport.

As this plane circled a few times the object all of a sudden shot straight up at an incredible speed and was gone in a flash or streak light, sort of like a trial of light behind it, like a visual trial or streak".
This had been going on for duration of time because she said, "that the radio stations were reporting it on the air live as it happened".
The crowds looking up were bigger than I thought.
The whole city was aware of the U.F.O...
So some one sent a plane up, she just figured it was the military from the base.

I didn't’ think too much of it, because I forgot about, till that dream.
We figured it happened in the 1956 to 1957 time frame to be as exact as we can be.

But my family members have also seen the real McCoy also in the past.
The dream I had was about that day and what I could see and only hear at that moment of that sighting.

 

[carlitos]

I don't think that having a fantastic (yet probably inaccurate) memory from the age of two makes one insane. It kind of makes you normal.

 

[Archer17]

You've got quite an memory imagination there edge.

You were two when this happened? A cop was trying to talk a "UFO" down with a megaphone? The whole town was mesmerized and the local radio stations were reporting this event "live?" Hmm...
The saucer-peddlers would have been all over this 'event' but not a peep. I tried googling it - nada. It would have been nice if your excellent recall included a better time frame as to when this 'event' supposedly occurred but since you were only 2 I'll cut you some slack there.

 

[RoboTimbo]

It's not an unknown if you use those explanations in yellow.

It's not an alien spaceship just because it isn't one of those explanations in yellow.

I'm talking about the 10% that are not one of those in yellow.
Nasa has some footage that is unknown.

Do they call them Alien Space Ships (ASSes) or do they call them Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)?

The sighting I had that no one commented on was still an unknown, but it was an advanced flying conveyance that was not defiantly one of ours either.

No, it's still an unknown, most likely mundane since non-mundane explanations have never been shown.

Then you are left with only five or six other explanations once you know for sure it's not one of ours either.

No, you are left with only five or six quintillion other explanations even if you start with your conclusion that it's OMG PseudoAlien!

I was as clean as I could be in the aspects of drinking, drugs and smoking.
So we are left with only a few possibilities.

No, see above. We are left with five or six quintillion possibilities.

These few explanations you won't accept either because you don't believe those either.

I can easily accept any mundane explanation because we already know the mundane exists. I won't accept a non-mundane explanation without extraordniary evidence. An unfalsifiable anecdote won't cut it.

But that's what we are left with.

Yep, five or six quintillion unknown mundane explanations.

So this is where you have a problem.

I think you mean that you have the problem.

Like those things in yellow I have seen and mistaken for possible UFOs but were ruled out, but there are about 7 sightings I have had that were only one of the six or so other explanations that are a possibility.
These are 5 or 6 that you will also dismiss simply because you want to believe that we are in control and there is nothing else but humans and human explanations.

You'd better get cracking on the other five or six quintillion explanations that you haven't highlighted in yellow.

So in a sense you all are UFO fundamentalists.

Note ufology's statement above that nothing will change his mind.

You are stuck in your ways of thinking.

How's the dowsing challenge going?

The 7 or so sightings I have seen that I can’t explain in a mundane nature only fit into the explanations that are left and they all fall into one of those 5 or 6 explanations we are left with that you will not accept.
Simply because you haven’t had a real sighting…just because you have had mundane sightings you can explain away doesn’t mean squat, because they were explainable, I have had 100s of those.

List the five or six quintilliion things you've eliminated in alphabetical order and how you eliminated each one.

 

[Archer17]

I think what at least two people here are missing is that when anyone sees an object they can't identify it means they can't identify it, nothing more. It's funny when I read that even though the observer(s) can't identify it, they know what it had to be. Anyone here schooled in ETI aircraft design? I admit I'm not so how can I make such a leap just because a sighting "earns" the 'U' designation in UFO?

ufology goes out of his way to try to shoehorn a particular USAF definition used in the late 1950s to assign a sub-category to UFO sightings but one thing I don't understand with the premise that it was meant to eliminate terrestrial or mundane "chaff" is that the USAF would, as their mandate dictates, be interested in any potential violation of US airspace, not just those from Deneb IV. If I was the military I would be just as interested in the more "mundane" sightings because they could involve foreign terrestrial airspace violations (as in Soviet). I would also be interested if my U-2 was spotted by Joe Sixpack here in the States because if it was then that means Vladimir Vodka bottle could see it over the U.S.S.R. as well.

 

[Marduk]

It's not an unknown if you use those explanations in yellow.

All of those in yellow have been claimed to be an alien spaceship at some point
so you totally missed the point there

I'm talking about the 10% that are not one of those in yellow.

no, youre are demonstrating that logic to you is a foreign country which you've never visited or thought about

Nasa has some footage that is unknown.

no they don't, N.A.S.A has footage which they have explained yet which people like you insist is something known as aliens, its bs edge, you should have checked your facts before posting again (how many times have you been told that now, if you had a dollar eh.....)

let me ask you a serious question Edge, if ufology was arrested and bailed for some white collar offence and the bail was set at $50,000, would you pay it for him ?

let me put that same question to ufology, if I was arrested and bailed for some white collar offence and the bail was set at $50,000, would you pay it for me ?

 

[AdMan]

There are privacy and copyright issues. What I can give you are approximate coodinates for Google Earth. Open Google Earth and plug them into the search and they'll get you close enough.

Object came up from behind Four Points Mountain: 50°28'21.05" N 115°53'25.74"W ( almost exactly )

Landing Zone Aprox: 50°26'32.96" N 115°56'34.17" W ( within a few hundered meters & definitely east of the highway )

My viewing location was on the west side of the lake about 3 Km from the LZ. at about 3000 ft. ( exact location witheld for privacy reasons ).

The altitude of the object when it departed appeared to be at around 4608ft. as drawn along the mountains behind it, but was probably lower due to the viewing angle and the object's distance away from the mountains in the background. I haven't figured out what that altitude would be yet, but it can be extrapolated.

And, as I asked originally, what landmark did you use to calculate the 25Km distance?