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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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Notice that all of Hynek's scientific accomplishments occurred prior to him ever going to work for the USAF. His UFO work was the death of his scientific career. He never published again after taking that job (at least not in any respectable science journals). All those decades were wasted in fruitless frivolity, manipulating stats to show senior Air Force officers exactly the kinds of results they wanted to see.


Actually, I take back what I said about the death of his career. Hynek did actually continue to make scientific contributions concurrently with his UFO work. He participated in several studies of satellites as well as optical technology, and continued to publish papers in scientific journals.

However, that still doesn't mean his UFOlogy work wasn't pseudoscience, and it certainly doesn't mean that his vacillating views on UFO "theories" aren't pseudoscience.

Hynek appears to be yet another of those strange cases of successful scientists who gave in to kooky beliefs despite being productive in other areas of their careers.
 
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Actually, I take back what I said about the death of his career. Hynek did actually continue to make scientific contributions concurrently with his UFO work. He participated in several studies of satellites as well as optical technology, and continued to publish papers in scientific journals.

However, that still doesn't mean his UFOlogy work wasn't pseudoscience, and it certainly doesn't mean that his vacillating views on UFO "theories" aren't pseudoscience.

Hynek appears to be yet another of those strange cases of successful scientists who gave in to kooky beliefs despite being productive in other areas of their careers.

Saucer-peddlers like to name-drop (the more letters after a name, the better) but no matter who they cite, the 'U' remains. Speaking of 'U's:

I had one instance (2 summers ago) where I saw something out my kitchen window that I couldn't ID. It was a white soundless "boxy" triangular thingie (from my angle of observation it looked more like a Goa'uld Tel'tak than an F-117) that was going at a decent clip west to east about 45 deg above the horizon. I saw it for about 7 seconds before it disappeared behind some trees. This much is certain: it was Unidentified, it was Flying, and it was an Object.

I'm thinking there's an acronym for such a thing... it'll come to me.
 
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ufology, the question you are running away from now is:

Why are UFOs [using your definition] sometimes later found to be mundane?

ufology, this seems to be a related question so maybe you could answer them both at the same time:

Do you think there are people who have misperceived something and thought it was an alien spaceship?
 
The human brain is absolutely amazing, and so long as we are healthy, it is accurate enough to allow us to do and recall many things consistently our whole life. It is neither as weak or fallible as you constantly claim it to be in such general terms.
It's not there a certain percentage past which the reliability of human recall somehow validates itself. It needs to be confirmed - in some fashion - because it can be wrong, especially about something like flying saucers, flying orbs of light, etc.
 
There is nothing anyone can say to make what I experienced not have happened or convince me that what I saw wasn't some kind of alien craft, so your consensus on that point isn't relevant to me.
I believe it so it must be true. :rolleyes:
 
I missed this one.....how did you deterimine the object was 3KM away and went 25 km in one second if you had no idea as to what the object was? Did you have a laser range finder or built in radar?


I'm sure you appreciate that distances and speeds can be calculated without a radar or measuring tape. And I don't make the claim that my distance and speed estimates are perfect. However from the landmarks of known distance and the flight path of the object and the time it took to travel between those marks, distances and speeds can be estimated.


Distance:
  • I used a map of the area.
  • Established where on the map I was observing from.
  • Established where on the map where the mountain the object came over was located and measured that distance from there to my point of observation.
  • Measured the distance from where I was observing to where the object appeared to have landed ( east of the highway on the other side of the lake ).
The observation of the object going down behind the trees on the other side of the lake means it had to be at least as far away as the lake is wide, plus the distance up to the where it landed. There is no way that anyone could see a firefly at that distance. It works out to about 3Km.

Speed:

  • When the object ascended just prior to departing, it rose vertically, and hovered for a few seconds. I used that position as the starting point for calculation of speed.
  • Just before it departed, it got very bright and it instantly accellerated north up the valley out of sight. Because it was so bright I could see the object until it was gone from view, and it left a streak of light behind it.
  • I had a clear view of the mountains on the east range for well over 25km and the object never rose above them when it departed.
  • I looked on the map and established where the object went out of sight. By visually comparing the mountains it had travelled past to those on the map I was able to establish various distances from the starting point to those landmarks. The farthest was well over 25Km away. I simply used the number 25 because it is convenient for making the calculations that indicate the object could outperform anything known.
Time:
  • It's not too hard to estimate about 1 second of time. For example, did you ever learn to estimate the distance of lightning using the time from the flash to the sound of the thunder? I also learned to play guitar and was familiar with precision timing with a metronome. Some here seem to ridicule this. Obviously they never learned precision timing and haven't got the insight to realize how accurate a musicians timing has to be. But even if you presume a musician can't tell the difference between 1 second and 2 seconds or 3 seconds ... you still get an extraordinary number for speed and accelleration.
Intelligence:

  • The object performed precise maneuvers from a precise start and stop location more than once.
  • When it departed, it navigated between the mountain ranges and did not move erratically.
So even with reasonable tolerances, and conservative estimates, given the appearance and performance capability, and apparent intelligence, I have ruled out every known natural or manmade object I'm aware of. Furthermore, it seems so far beyond any secret technology since revealed from 1970s, that I don't believe it was any secret human devised technology from then, or for that matter even now. If you can think of anything, by all means post it and I'll consider it.
 
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Ufology, how do you know you are remembering your sighting correctly? How long ago was it?
 
I'm sure you appreciate that distances and speeds can be calculated without a radar or measuring tape. And I don't make the claim that my distance and speed estimates are perfect. However from the landmarks of known distance and the flight path of the object and the time it took to travel between those marks, distances and speeds can be estimated.




Distance:
  • I used a map of the area.
  • Established where on the map I was observing from.
  • Established where on the map where the mountain the object came over was located and measured that distance from there to my point of observation.
  • Measured the distance from where I was observing to where the object appeared to have landed ( east of the highway on the other side of the lake ).
The observation of the object going down behind the trees on the other side of the lake means it had to be at least as far away as the lake is wide, plus the distance up to the where it landed. There is no way that anyone could see a firefly at that distance. It works out to about 3Km.

Speed:

  • When the object ascended just prior to departing, it rose vertically, and hovered for a few seconds. I used that position as the starting point for calculation of speed.
  • Just before it departed, it got very bright and it instantly accellerated north up the valley out of sight. Because it was so bright I could see the object until it was gone from view, and it left a streak of light behind it.
  • I had a clear view of the mountains on the east range for well over 25km and the object never rose above them when it departed.
  • I looked on the map and established where the object went out of sight. By visually comparing the mountains it had travelled past to those on the map I was able to establish various distances from the starting point to those landmarks. The farthest was well over 25Km away. I simply used the number 25 because it is convenient for making the calculations that indicate the object could outperform anything known.
Time:
  • I simply estimated time. It's not too hard to estimate about 1 second of time. For example, did you ever learn to estimate the distance of lightning using the time from the flash to the sound of the thunder? I also learned to play guitar and was familiar with precision timing with a metronome. Some here seem to ridicule this. Obviously they never learned precision timing and haven't got the insight to realize how accurate a musicians timing has to be. But even if you presume a musician can't tell the difference between 1 second and 2 seconds or 3 seconds ... you still get an extraordinary number for speed and accelleration.
Intelligence:

  • The object performed precise maneuvers from a precise start and stop location more than once.
  • When it departed, it navigated between the mountain ranges and did not move erratically.
So even with reasonable tolerances, and conservative estimates, given the appearance and performance capability, and apparent intelligence, I have ruled out every known natural or manmade object I'm aware of. Furthermore, it seems so far beyond anything from 1975 that I don't believe it was any secret human devised technology. If you can think of anything, even now, by all means post it and I'll consider it.


Please provide proof of the 25Km+ distance. As asked previously a number of times, if you could indicate on a map which landmarks you used to determine the 25 kilometers it would be useful.

Indicate on a map where you were when you saw the object, where it flew to (I know you got north and south confused initially, but hope you sorted that out now), and which landmarks you used to determine the distances.

I've repeatedly asked you for this information, and you cannot apparently provide any answers.

Google maps makes this easy these days, but don't hesitate to ask for help. :) As you apparently had no trouble in calculating distances originally, I think it shouldn't be difficult now.
 
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What you might say is that is doesn't qualify as scientific evidence.
It doesn't qualify as credible evidence. It's just anecdotes. Deal with it.

I'm beginning to understand why the skeptics here dislike dictionaries so much. They have been programmed in such a way that when presented with official and/or independent evidence that conflicts with their programming, they block it out and start hailing blasphemy to protect them from having to admit the truth. It's like some sort of cult brainwashing. Very interesting.

Are you sure you're not Rramjet? He also projects a lot.
 
Simply because I am certain about my own experience does not make me closed minded.
Yes it does.

It makes me sure.
It makes me sure that you're close minded.

Provide an explanation for what I saw that makes sense rather than ridiculing me, accusing me of fabrication or picking at irrelevant details.
  • Mating fireflies doing figure of 8 mating dance
  • Ectoptic phenomena / visual hallucination
  • Blimp
  • Car headlights
  • Lucid dreaming
  • Elvis

But the bottom line is, neither you nor us have anywhere near sufficient inforamtion to make a call on the nature of what you saw that night in 1973. So it's unknown. And no, that doesn't mean "alien spaceship" it means unknown.
 
So even with reasonable tolerances, and conservative estimates, given the appearance and performance capability, and apparent intelligence, I have ruled out every known natural or manmade object I'm aware of.


Congratulations! That only leaves 37,853,276,429 natural or manmade objects that you aren't aware of that you need to eliminate, plus the explanations that don't require your sighting to have even been an actual object.

Bonne chance.


Furthermore, it seems so far beyond any secret technology since revealed from 1970s, that I don't believe it was any secret human devised technology from then, or for that matter even now.


You're begging the question by taking it for granted that it was any kind of technology at all and using that as the basis for an argument from incredulity, ufology.

It'll never fly.


If you can think of anything, by all means post it and I'll consider it.


I don't know what it was, and neither do you.

This situation is unlikely to change. Ever.
 
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Please provide proof of the 25Km+ distance ... Google maps makes this easy these days, but don't hesitate to ask for help. :) As you apparently had no trouble in calculating distances originally, I think it shouldn't be difficult now.


There are privacy and copyright issues. What I can give you are approximate coodinates for Google Earth. Open Google Earth and plug them into the search and they'll get you close enough.

Object came up from behind Four Points Mountain: 50°28'21.05" N 115°53'25.74"W ( almost exactly )

Landing Zone Aprox: 50°26'32.96" N 115°56'34.17" W ( within a few hundered meters & definitely east of the highway )

My viewing location was on the west side of the lake about 3 Km from the LZ. at about 3000 ft. ( exact location witheld for privacy reasons ).

The altitude of the object when it departed appeared to be at around 4608ft. as drawn along the mountains behind it, but was probably lower due to the viewing angle and the object's distance away from the mountains in the background. I haven't figured out what that altitude would be yet, but it can be extrapolated.
 
Congratulations! That only leaves 37,853,276,429 natural or manmade objects that you aren't aware of that you need to eliminate.


Don't be obtuse. Entire classes and groups of objects can be ruled out with a single stroke using simple logic.
 
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I haven't figured out what that altitude would be yet, but it can be extrapolated.


Or just made up out of whole cloth, and nobody (including yourself, due to your overriding belief in the infallibilty of your own memory), will ever be able to tell which. That's why anecdotes ≠ evidence.
 
There are privacy and copyright issues. What I can give you are approximate coodinates for Google Earth. Open Google Earth and plug them into the search and they'll get you close enough.

Object came up from behind Four Points Mountain: 50°28'21.05" N 115°53'25.74"W ( almost exactly )

Landing Zone Aprox: 50°26'32.96" N 115°56'34.17" W ( within a few hundered meters & definitely east of the highway )

My viewing location was on the west side of the lake about 3 Km from the LZ. at about 3000 ft. ( exact location witheld for privacy reasons ).

The altitude of the object when it departed appeared to be at around 4608ft. as drawn along the mountains behind it, but was probably lower due to the viewing angle and the object's distance away from the mountains in the background. I haven't figured out what that altitude would be yet, but it can be extrapolated.


4608ft. Woot. What's your error bar on that. Really, I mean , it could be... 4607 foot ? or maybe 4609 ? Ever heard of the expression "significant digit" ? But from what you are describing, it could very very well be an insect viewed from much nearer in the air, but due to the lack of *near* reference point, gave you the illusion it was much much farther away. just saying. The "luciole hypotheses" become more likely.
 
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