• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

Status
Not open for further replies.
so you're saying Alien spaceships and Elvis have the same chance of being here, now on this planet and we can find out by asking people who probably haven't witnessed either


Jeeesus H Christ man, have you read what you're writing ?
:eek:

The more you investigate the more likely it is you'll find Elvis. :eye-poppi
 
Flying saucers are just one of the conveyances that we see, they are made to go through an atmosphere quickly.
When you bring in alien to the subject then there are only five or six explanations.
So far we haven't been able to say that they are from one source or type.
Or we could be witnessing all of them, all of the explanations of what they are and they all are similar in some respect as in the way they appear and vanish.
In outer space there is no need to be streamline is there?
But if you want a closer look then you need streamline craft.
I got a feeling that we are lumping several objects to one category.

Clearly they have star cruisers for interstellar flight and various types of craft for planetary observation plus there's nothing to say there's only one alien race visiting, we could have Reptilians from Riga and Saurians from Sirius.
 
Please don't quote me out of context for the purpose of misrepresenting my position. The Elvis analogy was purely for illustrative purposes because the poster who made the comment used the Elvis analogy in his statement.

Hint: Perhaps we need an Elvis blimp now too?

You mean, Elvis is gay!! Are no idols to be left untainted?
 
No you examine the evidence and then place it context, you don't predetermine the context and shoehorn the evidence to fit. That you seem to want to do exactly that, especially with your effort to redefine terms, doesn't say a lot for the quality your research.

Nooo, I won't stand for that, you cannot estimate the quality of someones research until they've actually produced some
we're still waiting
:p

Are no idols to be left untainted?

ha, heard that before, 1595 bce on the event of the looting of Babylon by the Hittites
:D
 
Last edited:
Your attitude, not the skeptics', is the uncompromising, closed-minded, hard-line one. Your mind is already made up. As your own words have said, "nothing anyone can say" will convince you otherwise, even though you have no actual conclusive evidence to back up your beliefs.


If the above were true, why have I asked for the opinion of and thanked, those who have contributed their skeptical info on two examples?

If the above is true, why did I offer an explanation for Ramjet's sighting that was not alien in nature?

If the above is true why did I come here in the first place seeking to acquire skeptical viewpoints to include on my website?

Simply because I am certain about my own experience does not make me closed minded. It makes me sure. Provide an explanation for what I saw that makes sense rather than ridiculing me, accusing me of fabrication or picking at irrelevant details.
 
Provide an explanation for what I saw that makes sense rather than ridiculing me, accusing me of fabrication or picking at irrelevant details.

we did, your "belief" wouldn't allow you to consider it
it was lightning bugs
:D
 
Simply because I am certain about my own experience does not make me closed minded. It makes me sure. Provide an explanation for what I saw that makes sense rather than ridiculing me, accusing me of fabrication or picking at irrelevant details.
OK, I'll try. You were mistaken. Your eyes fooled you and your memory is fallible, coupled with the fact that you have a predisposition to find fanciful explanations for events in order to make yourself feel special.

That's why, on your webpage, you insist that your childhood dreams (that everyone has) of flying were an "out of body experience." That's why you researched online and found a classic Cadillac of which GM only produced 99 total cars was the "men in black" vehicle. That's why you think you spoke with a bunny rabbit. That's why you misremember being successful at dowsing. You're a fantasist.

How did I do?
 
Yeah, but you've only seen ONE UFO in your life.

I have seen UFOs TWICE in my life (four UFOs in total).

Therefore, by your logic, my opinion carries twice the authority on the subject.


EHocking:

So you say you've seen UFOs twice. Ok let's compare that to the foremost UFO investigators definition of a UFO, Astronomer J. Allen Hynek of the presigious Center For UFO Studies:

UFO:

"The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible."

Did your UFO sightings conform to the above definition? I will give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that as a reasonably intelligent person, you are technically capable of making your own common sense identification, and that after close scrutiny, you remained of the opinion that you saw a UFO?

Am I correct ... or was it something you were able to identify after close scrutiny?
 
EHocking:

So you say you've seen UFOs twice. Ok let's compare that to the foremost UFO investigators definition of a UFO, Astronomer J. Allen Hynek of the presigious Center For UFO Studies:

UFO:

"The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible."

Did your UFO sightings conform to the above definition? I will give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that as a reasonably intelligent person, you are technically capable of making your own common sense identification, and that after close scrutiny, you remained of the opinion that you saw a UFO?

Am I correct ... or was it something you were able to identify after close scrutiny?

Wouldn't that be a bit like being the best judge an the invisible man bodybuilding contest?
 
J. Allen Hynek may have been a serious scientist when it came to his Astronomy work, but by the end of his career with the Air Force, he'd been pretty much converted into a pseudoscientist crank.

Jacques Vallée doubly so.

There. I said it.
 
we did, your "belief" wouldn't allow you to consider it
it was lightning bugs
:D


Marduk

My "belief" ( as in "faith" ) has nothing to do with rejecting the idea of lightning bugs. It was the my observation that rules it out. The object was about 3Km away and it lit up the trees around it. Then the object went from a dead stop to cover a distance of over 25Km in about 1 second. I've been over this before with the people here, and it's as if what I say just goes in one ear and out the other.

It is not possible to see a firefly ( lightning bug ) 3Km away, let alone when it gets light outside. It's not a plausible explanation at all. The only explanations open are that I'm either telling the truth and it was something alien, or that I'm fabricating the event.

Without any evidence that someone is deliberately lying, it is prejudicial to brand them as dishonest. That doesn't mean that it's something you have to believe. Polite skepticism is fine. But treating them as intellectually inferior or using character attacks are another matter ( not that you have done that ), just that it's not cool to think that it's an acceptable way of treating people who have had extraordinatry experiences.
 
Marduk

My "belief" ( as in "faith" ) has nothing to do with rejecting the idea of lightning bugs. It was the my observation that rules it out. The object was about 3Km away and it lit up the trees around it. Then the object went from a dead stop to cover a distance of over 25Km in about 1 second. I've been over this before with the people here, and it's as if what I say just goes in one ear and out the other.

It is not possible to see a firefly ( lightning bug ) 3Km away, let alone when it gets light outside. It's not a plausible explanation at all. The only explanations open are that I'm either telling the truth and it was something alien, or that I'm fabricating the event.

Without any evidence that someone is deliberately lying, it is prejudicial to brand them as dishonest. That doesn't mean that it's something you have to believe. Polite skepticism is fine. But treating them as intellectually inferior or using character attacks are another matter ( not that you have done that ), just that it's not cool to think that it's an acceptable way of treating people who have had extraordinatry experiences.

Possible you've misremembered some details? Like the lighting up of the trees?

It's impossible for a person to know that they haven't misremembered in the absence of confirming evidence. Do you have any?
 
Marduk

My "belief" ( as in "faith" ) has nothing to do with rejecting the idea of lightning bugs. It was the my observation that rules it out. The object was about 3Km away and it lit up the trees around it. Then the object went from a dead stop to cover a distance of over 25Km in about 1 second. I've been over this before with the people here, and it's as if what I say just goes in one ear and out the other.

It is not possible to see a firefly ( lightning bug ) 3Km away, let alone when it gets light outside. It's not a plausible explanation at all. The only explanations open are that I'm either telling the truth and it was something alien, or that I'm fabricating the event.

Without any evidence that someone is deliberately lying, it is prejudicial to brand them as dishonest. That doesn't mean that it's something you have to believe. Polite skepticism is fine. But treating them as intellectually inferior or using character attacks are another matter ( not that you have done that ), just that it's not cool to think that it's an acceptable way of treating people who have had extraordinatry experiences.

I would offer that the first sighting through the window was a lightning bug, and the subsequent "sightings" were hynagogic/hypnopompic events. This is just one combination of everyday, naturally occurring, mundane phenomena
 
J. Allen Hynek may have been a serious scientist when it came to his Astronomy work, but by the end of his career with the Air Force, he'd been pretty much converted into a pseudoscientist crank.

Jacques Vallée doubly so.

There. I said it.


Mr Albert:

The above statements are completely unfounded and disrespectful. Your constant name calling and character attacks on those who don't agree with your position contributes nothing to meaningful discussion.

Hynek's story is an undisputable example of a scientist with impeccable credentials and reputation, whose attitude towards UFOs was transformed by personal investigation from all out debunker to serious researcher. He's done more to seriously study the UFO phenomenon than you or anyone else here will probably ever do.
 
Marduk

My "belief" ( as in "faith" ) has nothing to do with rejecting the idea of lightning bugs. It was the my observation that rules it out. The object was about 3Km away and it lit up the trees around it. Then the object went from a dead stop to cover a distance of over 25Km in about 1 second. I've been over this before with the people here, and it's as if what I say just goes in one ear and out the other.
How about other people who have been positive that they saw aliens in spaceships who were later shown to be incorrect?

It is not possible to see a firefly ( lightning bug ) 3Km away, let alone when it gets light outside. It's not a plausible explanation at all. The only explanations open are that I'm either telling the truth and it was something alien, or that I'm fabricating the event.
You will never admit to a plausible explanation that isn't OMG Pseudoaliens.

Without any evidence that someone is deliberately lying, it is prejudicial to brand them as dishonest. That doesn't mean that it's something you have to believe. Polite skepticism is fine. But treating them as intellectually inferior or using character attacks are another matter ( not that you have done that ), just that it's not cool to think that it's an acceptable way of treating people who have had extraordinatry experiences.
Do you think there are people who have misperceived something and thought it was an alien spaceship?
 
Also, I'm sure you just missed the question so here it is again:

And why are they [UFOs by your definition] sometimes later found to be mundane?
 
Simply because I am certain about my own experience does not make me closed minded. It makes me sure.


You claim to be certain about something which there is no possible way anyone could be certain about, even somebody who witnessed exactly the same event that you claim to have witnessed. You've provided absolutely no evidence to prove your personal experience has anything whatsoever to do with alien spacecraft. All you've got is your own steadfast and uncompromising faith-based opinion.


Provide an explanation for what I saw that makes sense rather than ridiculing me, accusing me of fabrication or picking at irrelevant details.


I refuse to entertain your argument from ignorance or participate in your little "think up some plausible explanations for me to systematically refute" game. I did not make the claim of witnessing an alien spacecraft, so I'm not the one with the burden of proof in this discussion. You seem to have considerable difficulty understanding that concept, but that's not my problem.

Besides all that, I do not believe your story for a second. I suspect it was completely fabricated. Or, even more likely, it was a simple misperception of a mundane object (maybe a reflection of a ceiling lamp in a plate glass window) that you saw as a stoned teenager half a lifetime ago, and you've been retelling the story ever since. I believe you have spent the last 35-odd years twisting, plying, and embellishing this yarn with every retelling. If we talk to you a couple years from now, you'll probably be insisting you cracked a few beers with little green men on your girlfriend's back porch.

So there it is. I don't have any proof that you didn't see an extraterrestrial spacecraft in the mountains while listening to Led Zeppelin (or was it Black Oak Arkansas? I don't recall). But it's not my responsibility to disprove anything. The onus is on you to prove it and so far we haven't seen jack-squat.


J. Allen Hynek may have been a serious scientist when it came to his Astronomy work, but by the end of his career with the Air Force, he'd been pretty much converted into a pseudoscientist crank.

Jacques Vallée doubly so.

There. I said it.


The above statements are completely unfounded and disrespectful. Your constant name calling and character attacks on those who don't agree with your position contributes nothing to meaningful discussion.


He was a respected scientist who went on to get a cushy job pushing papers for the military, then made a public career out of promoting pseudoscience. The only reason you revere him so highly is because you happen to buy into his claims that UFOs are paranormal vehicles, on no better evidence than them being unexplained. That conclusion is a converse error that no self-respecting scientist would hang his career on.

Notice that all of Hynek's scientific accomplishments occurred prior to him ever going to work for the USAF. His UFO work was the death of his scientific career. He never published again after taking that job (at least not in any respectable science journals). All those decades were wasted in fruitless frivolity, manipulating stats to show senior Air Force officers exactly the kinds of results they wanted to see.


Hynek's story is an undisputable example of a scientist with impeccable credentials and reputation, whose attitude towards UFOs was transformed by personal investigation from all out debunker to serious researcher. He's done more to seriously study the UFO phenomenon than you or anyone else here will probably ever do.


That last is sentence probably quite accurate, because in all his years of shilling for the Air Force, he made zero progress towards falsifying the null hypothesis:

All UFOs are the result of mundane causes.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom