Why not war against Islam?

[Cleon]

That book I quoted.

So they attacked the source.

...Because the "source" was a lunatic who made things up.

The fact that there is lots of evidence that the Catholics supported the south all over the internet.

There's lots of evidence all over the internet that Catholics supported the North, too. You're just ignoring it.

Fág an bealach, Bill.

So it is hard to believe Lincoln was chummy with the Catholics.

Do you, or do you not, have evidence of your claimed Lincoln's anti-Catholicism?

Answer: You do not. If you did, you would've presented it by now.

Where is Obama's magan cum nothing you promised me?

Seriously? You're the only one who holds on to the fiction that he never earned a magna cum laude. Even the people who think he's a Muslim communist infiltrator haven't tried pulling that stunt.

Get over it, already.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I provided a quote from Lincoln. I provided this quote from someone who had lived during that time.

Saying "hey, no fair, that guy is like totally unreliable" is not good enough. You are saying that because you do not WANT to belive it. You do not have any evidence to say he was wrong or made it up.

Show me a quote from Lincoln where he says something like "I hold the Catholic Church no responsability in causing or encouraging the South to go forward with the Civil War". That would be something. Everything else is pretty meaningless.

 

[citizenzen]

It is a good question.

In your post it appears to be merely rhetorical, and I would have likely ignored it as well.

 

[Cleon]

"Neener Neener Neener" is not a logical retort. That is not how Science works. If you disagree with someone you have to show how someone's ideas are wrong and present a seperate explaination. He has not shown any notiable historian who will say "ya, know, Lincoln kind of liked the Catholic Church".

You've got it wrong again, Bill. You made a claim - that Lincoln hated Catholics. It's up to you to back up that claim. So far your failure to do so has been nothing short of spectacular fail.

Fact #1. The Catholics supported the South in the Civil War

Repeating a claim doesn't make it true, Bill.

Fact #2. Prior to 9-11-2001 the greatest loss of life in an act of war was the battle at Gettysburg.

#1, irrelevant. #2, it's wrong.

Gettysburg killed about 50,000 soldiers total. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki each killed more people than that.

Fact #3. Linclon was not stupid.

Hey! You got one right!

Fact #4. There are quotes where Lincoln blamed the Catholic Church for giving encouragement to the South and he said that the South would not have started the war without that promised backing.

...And yet, you refuse to provide any of these quotes.

 

[Cleon]

I provided a quote from Lincoln. I provided this quote from someone who had lived during that time.

Saying "hey, no fair, that guy is like totally unreliable" is not good enough. You are saying that because you do not WANT to belive it. You do not have any evidence to say he was wrong or made it up.

Really, Bill? The guy claimed that Lincoln was assassinated as a Jesuit plot. It's the equivalent of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

You've got it backwards, Bill. You want to believe Chiniquy, so you've accepted him as Gospel Truth.

In reality, if what he said was true, you should be able to easily find corroborating evidence. You can't, because it isn't.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Do you, or do you not, have evidence of your claimed Lincoln's anti-Catholicism?

Answer: You do not. If you did, you would've presented it by now.

I did. Have you been snoozing?

Now, lots of people on the internet say that the quote was fabricated but they do not show where Lincoln said something contrary to it, like, saying that he did not blame the Catholics for the Civil war or thought they were not involved.

“This war would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to Popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and North, on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor any one of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promise of the Jesuits, that, under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholics, even the arms of France, were at their disposal if they would attack us.” Charles Chiniquy, Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, The Wickliffe Press, Protestant Truth Society, Wickliffe Avenue, 104 Hendon Lane, Finchley, London, N3., 1885, p. 388.


Since you can find proof all over the internet that the Catholics DID support the South as a matter of fact, it is probable that Lincoln did say this or something like it.


We don't WANT to believe that Lincoln was anti-Catholic, just like we WANT to believe Obama is Magna Cum Whatever. Without proof showing Lincoln was pro-Catholic, I have to doubt he was.

There a lots and lots of Catholics that refute Chiniquy and say it is anti-Catholic propaganda. But given the fact that the Catholics really did support the South, it is plausable that the quote is correct. And they seem silent in providing a quote by Lincoln where he said he loved the Catholics.

Show me quotes by Lincoln saying he loved those good ol' American lovin' Catholics.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Explain how Lincoln has anything to do with a war against Islam, man. If you can't then the people dwelling on it are the joke.

You're the one who brought up Lincoln and his alleged hatred of Catholics. You tell us what the relevance of that subject to this conversation is.

 

[Bill Thompson]

...Because the "source" was a lunatic who made things up.

Whatever. I think no one wants to believe Lincoln was anti-Catholic. So, step up to the plate, man. Show me a quote where Lincoln shows love for the Catholics.

 

[Bill Thompson]

You're the one who brought up Lincoln and his alleged hatred of Catholics. You tell us what the relevance of that subject to this conversation is.

The Catholics supported the South during the Civil War. So it would be out of the norm for Lincoln to like the Catholics. So show me proof that he did.

 

[Bill Thompson]

...Because the "source" was a lunatic who made things up.

That is what the Catholics say.

But they do not show any proof that Lincoln liked the Catholics.

Without that, the ruling stands.

 

[Cleon]

Whatever. I think no one wants to believe Lincoln was anti-Catholic. So, step up to the plate, man. Show me a quote where Lincoln shows love for the Catholics.

Bill, this is stupid for two reasons:

#1, the onus is on you to provide evidence for your claim. It should be easy, but the only thing you offer is the word of a conspiracy theorist.

#2, You have established a false dichotomy where Lincoln either hated Catholics or loved them. I've noticed you do this quite a bit; upthread you accuse a number of people of "loving" Islam or "think Islam is good" because they called you on your BS.

 

[Cleon]

That is what the Catholics say.

Bill, he claimed Lincoln was assassinated as part of a Jesuit plot and that the Jesuits were planning on taking over the country.

It's neither controversial nor exaggeration to point out that he made things up. Why can't you simply accept that?

But they do not show any proof that Lincoln liked the Catholics.

The same moronic false dichotomy, and shifting the burden.

Without that, the ruling stands.

Translation: You will believe what you want to believe, evidence be damned.

 

[Darth Rotor]

You're the one who brought up Lincoln and his alleged hatred of Catholics. You tell us what the relevance of that subject to this conversation is.

Actually, dislike and disdain for Catholics was fairly common in mid 19thcentury America among the majority of Americans, who trended Protestant in various flavors.

See the following for an example of how this sort of thing played out.
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qis01

I don't think that the Mexican government was going to try this gambit if there wasn't ample reason to believe it would work.

Protestant versus Catholic antipathy was well imported from Europe to the New World. IIRC, the Orange/Green friction among the Irish played out on our shores as the immigrants came over in their tens of thousands. (That may be a generalization too far, however).

I would almost be surprised to find that President Lincoln, at least while he was growing up and coming of age, wasn't generally hostile to Roman Catholics. That would be consistent with the sectarian friction of the times.

 

[Bill Thompson]

The Catholics supported the South during the Civil War. The burden of proof is on those who think Lincoln liked or did not mind the Catholics.

 

[Cleon]

The Catholics supported the South during the Civil War. The burden of proof is on those who think Lincoln liked or did not mind the Catholics.

Saying it over and over and over again doesn't magically make it true, Bill. Not even with a kitty.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Bill, he claimed Lincoln was assassinated as part of a Jesuit plot and that the Jesuits were planning on taking over the country.

Yeah, well, no one is perfect. LBJ was paranoid about the Russians after Kennedy was shot too.

Still, does not make him a complete hack and lair about absolutely everything.

Besides, Booth was a Catholc. And just as LBJ thought the Russians might be after him, this guy might just as well be paranoid about the Catholics.

You still have to PROVE that Lincoln did not dislike the Catholics. Without that, the ruling stands.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, well, no one is perfect. LBJ was paranoid about the Russians after Kennedy was shot too.

Still, does not make him a complete hack and lair about absolutely everything.

Besides, Booth was a Catholc. And just as LBJ thought the Russians might be after him, this guy might just as well be paranoid about the Catholics.

You still have to PROVE that Lincoln did not dislike the Catholics. Without that, the ruling stands.

No, Bill, I don't. The burden remains on you to prove your claim.

If Lincoln's anti-Catholicism was so well-known, it should be absolutely trivial to find evidence of it. Instead, you reduce yourself to making excuses for a dead conspiracy-mongering bigot rather than simply produce a decent, verifiable quote.

This speaks volumes for your position.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You are not in any contact with them currently. if you were, they would tell you that the Catholics favored the South in the US Civil War. By the way, I think you are not being honest. Show me that you know them and show me you are in contact with them. Conact them or tell me how I can.

If you're keen to contact them and ask them to confirm your claim regarding Lincoln's attitude toward Catholics, then might I suggest looking up Walter Edgar at the University of South Carolina and John B. Edmunds, Jr. at the University of South Carolina Upstate.

 

[Foster Zygote]

By you saying nothing, you tell me a lot.
[qimg]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/Athono/whatthehell.jpg[/qimg]

You respond "This is exactly what I think" to a question that did not ask that. It is as if I ask what your favorate color is and you respond "seven".

I asked you what you "What do you think I think?".

Some things are in books and not on the internet because of copyright issues. You can get biographies on Lincoln at the library but they are not transcribed on the internet.

So I ask you again. What do you think I think?

Bill, you do realize that there were multiple sentences in the paragraph I responded to, yes? That your high school teacher (assuming he/she told you what you claim) is wrong is exactly what I think.

In answer to your last question above, I think that you think that Lincoln hated Catholics, which is a claim for which you have not provided the slightest reliable evidence. I also think that you think you will look foolish if you admit that you are in error. But in reality, the practice of avoiding said admission is what makes you appear foolish.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The Catholics overwhelmingly supported the South during the Civil a War. I already provided a screen shot to a web site that discussed this in clear, historic, accurate and no uncertain terms. You can find lots more links online. So to think Lincoln was chummy with a sect that supported the enemy that lead to such a huge loss of life is unfathomable.

You provided a link to a single Catholic man who supported the Confederacy. You did not provide evidence that Catholics "overwhelmingly supported the South during the Civil War". You have been given information about Catholics who supported the Union and vehemently opposed slavery, but you choose to ignore it. You have been shown that Protestants were equally divided regarding their loyalties, but you choose to ignore these facts as well. By your logic, Lincoln should have hated people with mustaches because there were many Confederates and Confederate sympathizers with mustaches, not to mention the man who shot him by surprise in the back of the head had a mustache.