Merged Libya: People's Revolution / Criminal Imperialism?

[Pardalis]

Gaddafi raped his own bodyguards


Such a nice guy this Gaddafi...

And what about the contempt for democracy the Gaddafi regime showed over and over for forty years?

 

[RandFan]

"Why are you attacking us? Why are you killing our children? Why are you destroying our infrastructure?"
– Television address by Libyan Leader Muammar Gaddafi, April 30, 2011

Your people rose up against you. They didn't like your contempt for their liberties.

 

[trustbutverify]

thankyou for this excellent post, jane.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Gaddafi raped his own bodyguards


Such a nice guy this Gaddafi...

And what about the contempt for democracy the Gaddafi regime showed over and over for forty years?

Oh this is getting just hillarious! As final parting evils, they leave us with booze, gay porn, Condi "porn," a scalded maid, fifty charred skeletons, several other mass graves, dumping rotting dead black men in the FF's paths to frame them (this will be alleged soon, the maggots tell me), forcing children to shoot protesters now, and raping body guards.

Next we'll pat ourselves on the back because the regime we destroyed under false pretenses and in sort of a heedless panic, was also eating flambe puppies and kittens, forcing kids to do the same, forcing husbands and wives to cut off each other's faces and trade, and stomping on babies for an after lunch sport.

Pardalis - is there a single shrill, logic-free, obvious propaganda allegation against Gaddafi you have ever not swalloed whole and asked for seconds?

Did they order neighborhoods bombed? Did they have those five brave mutinous soldiers at the Katiba burned alive app. Feb 20, day before "the people" burned five Chadian workers alive at the same place? Etc. ?

 

[Pardalis]

Denial denial, that's your default position.

You didn't even read the article and you were ready to deny it.

 

[trustbutverify]

Oh this is getting just hillarious! As final parting evils, they leave us with booze, gay porn, Condi "porn," a scalded maid, fifty charred skeletons, several other mass graves, dumping rotting dead black men in the FF's paths to frame them (this will be alleged soon, the maggots tell me), forcing children to shoot protesters now, and raping body guards.

Next we'll pat ourselves on the back because the regime we destroyed under false pretenses and in sort of a heedless panic, was also eating flambe puppies and kittens, forcing kids to do the same, forcing husbands and wives to cut off each other's faces and trade, and stomping on babies for an after lunch sport.

Pardalis - is there a single shrill, logic-free, obvious propaganda allegation against Gaddafi you have ever not swalloed whole and asked for seconds?

Did they order neighborhoods bombed? Did they have those five brave mutinous soldiers at the Katiba burned alive app. Feb 20, day before "the people" burned five Chadian workers alive at the same place? Etc. ?

The sweet scent of sweat and desperation.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Denial denial, that's your default position.

You didn't even read the article and you were ready to deny it.

Yes. If it were the first time hearing crap like that, that would be un-skeptical. I'll only acknowledge maybe it is true that Gaddafi raped his bodyguards, and now all Libyans should embrace the NTC for removing the menace. But my default position of "************" is one I'm entirely happy with. I's proven a good starting point I don't often have to deviate from.

Maybe I'll even explain why, again, a thing you pop in with and fling isn't sticking to the wall.

I mentioned the previous things you popped in with. Do you still maintain neighborhoods were bombed, without leaving any evidence at all? (Stealth bombers?) You did at first, but haven't affirmed it since. And do the rebels have a poor track record of helping us fill in the blanks (accurately) on those anonymized charred skeletons they often "find" after taking over a government base?

Where are the remains, by the way, of the soldiers at the base, whom the rebels fought after NATO bombed them? One rebel said they didn't die, but "fled like rats." To where, in rebel-held Tripoli? To a shed, methinks...

The sweet scent of sweat and desperation.

Eww.

 

[Pardalis]

I'll only acknowledge maybe it is true that Gaddafi raped his bodyguards

I guess that's progress.

 

[RandFan]

I don't have a side. I don't see the point. To the extent there are people who want to be free I champion them. To the extent that people oppress and subjugate I condemn. I condemn the atrocities of any regime, the US included. To the extent the rebels are commuting atrocity I condemn them also.

Sometimes people don't want to be subjugated anymore and rise up. From everything I've seen this is true of the Libyan people. Does that justify any of their crimes? No, no more than the desire to free people justified the atrocities of Che.

If there were evidence that this was a western invasion I've yet to see it. This does not appear to be another United Fruit Company affair. I'll keep my mind open but in this instance the driving force of this action appears to be anger and resentment toward Gaddafi from his own people.

 

[Toke]

...This does not appear to be another United Fruit Company affair...

No, it is/were far too disorganised.
(In spite of the keystone cops impression given by "A legacy of ashes".)

 

[Caustic Logic]

...This does not appear to be another United Fruit Company affair...

No, it is/were far too disorganised.
(In spite of the keystone cops impression given by "A legacy of ashes".)

Organized enough to become the generally recognized government of Libya. Took some helping, but there were plenty eager to help. And the result is a whole new mindset put in charge of Libya. If I may just copy this over from the other thread:

Mustafa Gheriani, as of April 4 "a businessman and rebel spokesman":

Gheriani tried to assure me that the new state the rebels envision would be led not by confused mobs or religious extremists but by “Western-educated intellectuals,” like him.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson

Mahmoud Jibril, State Dept. cable (2010?):

2. (C) The Ambassador discussed Libya's human development strategy in a May 6 courtesy call on Mahmoud Jibril, Chair of the National Economic Development Board (NEDB), an organization that Jibril likened to a "think tank" of multi-disciplinary experts. Before the March 2009 cabinet shuffle, Jibril was simultaneously in charge of the NEDB and the National Planning Council, but now he directs only the NEDB. He reports directly to the prime minister. A U.S.-educated PhD in strategic planning, Jibril touched on familiar themes, such as Libya's need to diversify its economy away from oil (reftel), but he also fleshed out how Libya is tracking 11,000 development projects.

3. (C) According to Jibril, there are 11,000 development projects in Libya spanning several sectors, with the bulk of projects focusing on infrastructure. The NEDB's role in these projects is to "pave the way" for private sector development, and to create a strategic partnership between private companies and the government. There is a still a "gap of distrust" dividing the two. As to whether Libya has a Master Plan that includes all the 11,000 projects, Jibril admitted that in the past two years, Libya had started executing projects without such a plan. However, the NEDB has been working with experts from Ernst and Young, the Oxford Group, and lately with five consultants from UNDP to advise the prime minister on the best sequencing and pacing of the projects in order to decrease poverty and unemployment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wik...TANK-OUTLINES-HUMAN-DEVELOPMENT-STRATEGY.html

Dr. Ali Tarhouni

“Most participants argued for privatization and a strong private sector economy.” That is a statement culled from a report of a panel discussion entitled “Post-Qaddafi Libya: The Prospect and The Promise,” organized by Washington’s Center for Strategic and International Studies in 1994. Dr Ali Tarhouni stated at the conference, “with privatization, entrepreneurs will reach out and get involved in regional cooperation by searching for markets.”
[...]
Dr. Ali Tarhouni has the credentials to be the globalists’ elder statesman for post-Qaddafi Libya. He was educated in economics at Michigan State University, and has been on the faculty of Graduate School of Business at University of Washington.[11] Like others of the “world color revolution” he seems to have been picked out long ago, in this instance since at least the 1990s, and to have distinguished himself at the 1994 “post-Qaddafi” conference for his enthusiasm for not only a privatized economy but for an Arab regional free market.

Tarhouni has served as the Political Coordinator of the National Conference of the Libyan Opposition (NCL) in Seattle, Washington. The NCLO is a coalition of seven groups founded in London in 2005,[12] and centers on the [CIA-created] National Front for the Salvation of Libya whose Executive Secretary Abdul Majid Buik was present at the 1994 conference with Tarhouni.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/26/post-qaddafi-libya-on-the-globalist-road/

They're promising elections in, what, 20 months? They'll have a modern liberal internationalist Muslim candidate, and a more inward-looking traditionalist one. But I predict the economy will be irreversibly privatized by then, to the benefit of certain Western firms and with kickbacks to certain Libyans, regardless of who's elected.

Or at least the "groundwork" away from Gaddafi Jamahiriya socialism and towards Corporatism will be solidly laid by then.

Reconstruction from the bombing, expensive. Oil profits, shared with our new friends who helped us reach freedom. Loans = debt = more re-structuring, sorry. Universal education, if you can afford it. Medical care, same. Great Manmade River, you get access - monthly checks payable to Vivendi.

 

[RandFan]

They're promising elections in, what, 20 months? They'll have a modern liberal internationalist Muslim candidate, and a more inward-looking traditionalist one. But I predict the economy will be irreversibly privatized by then, to the benefit of certain Western firms and with kickbacks to certain Libyans, regardless of who's elected.

Or at least the "groundwork" away from Gaddafi Jamahiriya socialism and towards Corporatism will be solidly laid by then.

Reconstruction from the bombing, expensive. Oil profits, shared with our new friends who helped us reach freedom. Loans = debt = more re-structuring, sorry. Universal education, if you can afford it. Medical care, same. Great Manmade River, you get access - monthly checks payable to Vivendi.

I honestly don't want to simply minimize or dismiss any of this out of hand but it appears to be connect the dots CT. This is the kind of connections McCarthy used to prove communist conspiracies. I'm sorry but it's really not compelling. That prominent directors and actors had contacts with communist organizations, and that there was documentation of prominent figures discussing how to influence American society did not justify the conclusions.

 

[JihadJane]

'Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing'


***In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"Contrary to what is being reported in the press, from what I heard and observed, more than 90 percent of the Libyan people love Gaddafi," Fauntroy said. "We believe the true mission of the attacks on Gaddafi is to prevent all efforts by African leaders to stop the recolonization of Africa." ***

 

[trustbutverify]

'Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing'


***In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"Contrary to what is being reported in the press, from what I heard and observed, more than 90 percent of the Libyan people love Gaddafi," Fauntroy said. "We believe the true mission of the attacks on Gaddafi is to prevent all efforts by African leaders to stop the recolonization of Africa." ***

Very interesting. Now- did this occur before or after anal probing aboard the mothership?

 

[RandFan]

'Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing'


***In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"Contrary to what is being reported in the press, from what I heard and observed, more than 90 percent of the Libyan people love Gaddafi," Fauntroy said. "We believe the true mission of the attacks on Gaddafi is to prevent all efforts by African leaders to stop the recolonization of Africa." ***

Riiiiiiiight. And we should trust this anecdote because?

 

[Klimax]

Riiiiiiiight. And we should trust this anecdote because?

Agrees with his opinion and WorldView?

 

[Toke]

Very interesting. Now- did this occur before or after anal probing aboard the mothership?

Riiiiiiiight. And we should trust this anecdote because?

My only experience with Danish special forces were when they were onboard my ship to guard military supplies/vehicles through the bay of Aden.
They were quite insistent on having rules of engagement that did not allow indiscriminate slaughter of pirates, much to the disappointment of me and the rest of the crew.
(We did not see any pirates. )

JJ,
You are stuck in truther-world, out here in reality some things just don't make sense.

 

[RandFan]

My only experience with Danish special forces were when they were onboard my ship to guard military supplies/vehicles through the bay of Aden.
They were quite insistent on having rules of engagement that did not allow indiscriminate slaughter of pirates, much to the disappointment of me and the rest of the crew.
(We did not see any pirates. )

Well duh! Get your ass to the Caribbean my friend. Take the I-5 in orange county and get off on Disneyland Drive. They will provide you a map. Just go to the Pirates of The Caribbean. Sheesh.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Personaly, I am not lamenting the fall of that guy, i am lamenting that somehow when we "free" or "help free" an opressed population from a dictator lately it always seems to be from countries with oil, while the country without oil with as bad or even worst dictator , well, are seemingly ignored.

Funny, Burma/Myanmar has oil and gas reserves, and we've done bloody eff all about that.

Hmm, might the Chinese interests in the region be why?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Libyan teen says Gadhafi's troops forced her to execute rebels

At least he didn't make her blow the whole platoon.

Let it bug you some more and reality may dawn!

Dear Jane:
For once, I am not taking the piss.

What do you mean by that? Curious.

'Walter Fauntroy, Feared Dead in Libya, Returns Home—Guess Who He Saw Doing the Killing'

***In an interview inside his Northwest D.C. home last week, the noted civil rights leader, told the Afro that he watched French and Danish troops storm small villages late at night beheading, maiming and killing rebels and loyalists to show them who was in control.

"Contrary to what is being reported in the press, from what I heard and observed, more than 90 percent of the Libyan people love Gaddafi," Fauntroy said. "We believe the true mission of the attacks on Gaddafi is to prevent all efforts by African leaders to stop the recolonization of Africa." ***

OK, work with me here. Anyone else corroborate this?

*deleted comment in re our French NATO allies, I'm feeling charitable today*