Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau:

Judge denies both requests, no new exam on knife, no aviello.
 
Not a surprise, but still a relief that this trial seems to following a much more logical and fair pattern than round 1.
 
Sorry, I was excited.

Judge denied retesting the knife and rehearing Aviello. Court reporters (like the rest of us) interpret these decisions as very favorable for Knox and Sollecito.
 
And there's more. This from CNN's Matthew Chance tweeting from inside the court:

mchancecnn Matthew Chance

Judge rejects prosecution calls for independent dna expert report to be thrown out
 
Dougm said:
I have thought this is odd as well, and although she is obviously high profile, have often thought that Raffaele would be better off having someone who can dedicate full time to the case.
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Like another Maori or Ghirga?

Even with her other commitments, Bongiorno is and has been the best of the four defense attorneys in this case, IMHO.

I have yet to see any instance where having Bongiorno as his attorney has harmed Raffaele. Even her absence (unfortunate though it is) doesn't count, because Maori was there, and if Bongiorno hadn't been hired, the other lawyer in her place would have just been someone similar to him anyway.
 
And one more:

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
That's all for today from the courtroom in Perugia. Back the 23rd of September for the big finish. Looks like Knox will walk
 
LondonJohn said:
She has important political business in Rome: Italy is sliding slowly towards economic and political chaos. Berlusconi's attempt to force through austerity measures (demanded to appease international capital markets) has failed miserably, and there is now a very real chance that Italy will default on its sovereign debt - maybe even before Greece. This is major crisis time for Italy.

And this is a perfect illustration of why I think that Bongiorno made a massive error of judgement in agreeing to take Sollecito's brief. I've been saying this for a very long time now, and this latest episode is just further proof of my point. I think Bongiorno put her own ego (and possibly monetary considerations) before her fundamental duty to serve her client properly. It should have been totally clear to her from the very outset that she would be unable to conduct an adequate defence for Sollecito while also holding down an important full-time job in politics. I think, frankly, that she too should be subjected to an inquiry after this is all over: I think her initial decision to take the case was unethical and improper.

Please note though that this is not a comment on her competence or legal abilities/experience, However, I also think that she was unqualified to defend a murder suspect (having only defended corruption/bribery suspects before), and that she should probably have turned down the case on those grounds too - recommending a respected murder defence lawyer instead.
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There is definitely a down side to Bongiorno's participation,I would be hoping that she would have the political clout to get an inquiry into how this case was investigated the prosecutors office judge Massei's handling of it in court,the forensic scientists little better than framers

There is definitely a danger of Italy sliding towards economic and political chaos,with Italy's climate and huge coastline in the mediterranean tourism must be hugely important to their chances of economic survival this case must be any minister for tourism trying to sell Italy as a tourist destination worst nightmare
 
Rose, you surprise me

RoseMontague said:
Same here, LJ. Testing the knife for what the prosecution claimed was completely used up in the first test and what the independent experts have already called unreliable (and starch). It makes no sense to me. Time to close this thing out, in my opinion.
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Rose, you surprise me

Surely one as usually impeccably informed as yourself did note the sworn testimony from more than one witness about the recent advances in technology and techniques of dna testing.
Testimony further revealed that the academic experts, C&V, did not consider these advances that might allow more definitive results from the small contested samples if new tests are permitted.

Regardless of Judge Hellman's decision today, I am sure the Court Of Cassation if necessarily approached noted and will not overlook that testimony as you apparently have done
 
LondonJohn said:
And one more:

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
That's all for today from the courtroom in Perugia. Back the 23rd of September for the big finish. Looks like Knox will walk
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Bravo Hellmann we will have an acquittal in September now
 
komponisto said:
Like another Maori or Ghirga?

Even with her other commitments, Bongiorno is and has been the best of the four defense attorneys in this case, IMHO.

I have yet to see any instance where having Bongiorno as his attorney has harmed Raffaele. Even her absence (unfortunate though it is) doesn't count, because Maori was there, and if Bongiorno hadn't been hired, the other lawyer in her place would have just been someone similar to him anyway.
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I still happen to strongly believe that if Sollecito's father was prepared to spend significant amounts of money hiring a big-shot defence lawyer for his son, he'd have got far better results by hiring Italy's most renowned criminal defence lawyer with a proven track record in defending murder suspects. I don't know who that person might be, but I do know two things: 1) it isn't Bongiorno, and 2) either Bongiorno herself, or the Italian criminal bar association, would have been able to advise Papa Sollecito who that person would be.

It's my opinion that if Sollecito had had a full-time top criminal defence laywer with a track record in murder cases working for him (and, by extension, for Knox too), there might never have been a provisional conviction in Massei's court. For example, to my mind, Curatolo could and should have been demolished in Massei's court - even before his catastrophic recall to Hellmann's court. And I think the DNA evidence, the mixed blood evidence, the bathmat partial print, the "staging" theory, the computer evidence, the ToD, Quintavalle, and the telephone evidence could and should have been far better argued in Massei's court.

Bongiorno might have been the best defence lawyer of the four, but an objective analysis shows that she was merely the "least bad". Dalla Vedova wasn't even a criminal defence lawyer before this case, and both Ghirga and Maori are no more than competent provincial lawyers. I strongly believe that Sollecito's father decided he wanted who he perceived as "the best" to defend his son. I think he made an ill-informed and incorrect decision as to who "the best" might be, and I think that Bongiorno was badly remiss in not disabusing him of that notion.
 
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And one very significant tweet from CNN's Chance:

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
Judge accepts findings of independent DNA experts, who cast doubt on evidence against #AmandaKnox.


If this is accurate, then it's a very big defence win.
 
pilot padron said:
Rose, you surprise me

Surely one as usually impeccably informed as yourself did note the sworn testimony from more than one witness about the recent advances in technology and techniques of dna testing.
Testimony further revealed that the academic experts, C&V, did not consider these advances that might allow more definitive results from the small contested samples if new tests are permitted.

Regardless of Judge Hellman's decision today, I am sure the Court Of Cassation if necessarily approached noted and will not overlook that testimony as you apparently have done
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Sure Stint they might even order the new machine to be used to test the semen stain as long as the postal police tecnician who examined the hard drives stays away from it
 
pilot padron said:
Rose, you surprise me

Surely one as usually impeccably informed as yourself did note the sworn testimony from more than one witness about the recent advances in technology and techniques of dna testing.
Testimony further revealed that the academic experts, C&V, did not consider these advances that might allow more definitive results from the small contested samples if new tests are permitted.

Regardless of Judge Hellman's decision today, I am sure the Court Of Cassation if necessarily approached noted and will not overlook that testimony as you apparently have done
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I think not. You're wrong.
 
pilot padron said:
Rose, you surprise me

Surely one as usually impeccably informed as yourself did note the sworn testimony from more than one witness about the recent advances in technology and techniques of dna testing.
Testimony further revealed that the academic experts, C&V, did not consider these advances that might allow more definitive results from the small contested samples if new tests are permitted.

Regardless of Judge Hellman's decision today, I am sure the Court Of Cassation if necessarily approached noted and will not overlook that testimony as you apparently have done
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The judge used common sense as well, pilot.

LCN protocols were not followed. Any result would still be unreliable. Hellman obviously felt it was pointless, and I completely agree.
 
It seems Comodi believes Hellman is against the prosecution, and is preparing for high court:

Knox will be freed, says prosecutor
Nick Pisa in Perugia
7 Sep 2011

A prosecutor in the Amanda Knox case has predicted the American will be acquitted of the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.

Knox's appeal lawyers again contested crucial DNA evidence yesterday and Manuela Comodi told the Standard she is convinced Knox will be freed.

Knox, 24, is serving 26 years for the murder of Miss Kercher, 21, of Surrey, who was found semi-naked with her throat slashed in the bedroom of the house she shared with Knox and two other women in November 2007.

Knox's former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 27, was also convicted of murdering and sexually assaulting Meredith and he is serving 25 years. Both say they had nothing to do with the killing.

Ms Comodi said: "There is an ill wind blowing in this case. The judge and his assistant are clearly against us. I can see both Knox and Sollecito being freed which will be a shame as they are both involved."

Today Ms Comodi is expected to ask for a second review of the DNA evidence after court-appointed experts condemned the original forensic investigation.
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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23984490-knox-will-be-freed-says-prosecutor.do

Associated Press
Knox trial: Jury rejects DNA request
By ALESSANDRA RIZZO , 09.07.11, 07:26 AM EDT

PERUGIA, Italy -- An Italian appeals court has rejected a prosecutors' request for new DNA testing in the appeals trial of Amanda Knox, saying it would be unneccessary after lengthy discussion over genetic evidence.

The decision Wednesday by Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann opens the way for closing arguments, which are set to begin on Sept. 23 with the prosecution. A verdict is expected by month's end.
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http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/09/07/general-eu-italy-knox_8662380.html
 
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The level of denial by some of the most idiotic pro-guilt commentators is astonishing! A frog seems to think that the very fact that Hellmann had to retire to consider whether or not to allow a new DNA examination is in itself proof that "the damage was done" by the prosecutors! (Clearly this frog is entirely ignorant of judicial process, as well as hopelessly biased). And that oddball running .net even thinks that Hellmann's refusal to allow new DNA work might be because he (Hellmann) has concluded that the Conti/Vecchiotti report is rubbish and the knife/clasp are both fine as evidence!!

The mindsets of some of these people are truly extraordinary. I also see they are now jumping on their former heroine, Barbie Latza Clouseau. Sad, really.
 
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