• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Instead of my weekly look into Codoh, I went upmarket for a look into Incovenient History, Fall 2011 Issue. I want to see if I am allowed to reproduce an URL here.

http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2011/volume_3/number_3/index.php

Good. This URL leads to an article by Thomas Kues “Premature News Report” which will be of interest to fans of NickTerry, the same of this parish.

Any troublesome document will meet either of two responses in Codoh/Rodoh polemics. Either the document is an obvious forgery or, alternatively, it does not prove very much. To hold both views at once would be to argue that someone went to the trouble of fabricating a document that would not prove very much if it were genuine. To me it seems less than plausible to argue strongly that some document was forgery without implicitly conceding that it would otherwise have evidential weight.

Nick Terry argues strongly Terry that Udo Wendy has forged the following passage.



Walendy sources this to a report in the Polish Daily of 11 July 1942, a Polish language paper for Polish in London, quoting words uttered by the Polish Interior Minister-in-exile at a press conference given on 9 July 1942.
If one examines Walendy’s facsimile ( Kues figure 1) one can see that Nick Terry was right to be suspicious. Clearer than its surroundings, the key passage looks as if it has been retyped. And in fact it has been retyped. Kues is lenient to Walendy’s offence here, which is the rather serious academic misdemeanour of passing off a retouching as a facsimile. Moreover, no other account of the July 9 press conference mentions Treblinka, and Mattogno and Graf make no use of this passage in their Treblinka book. Otherwise, says NickTerry, they “would have been all over it”.

But if Kues’ reproductions as figure 2 and 3 are authentic, then Walendy is not guilty of the seriously serious offence of fabricating evidence. The purpose of the retyping, it seems, was legibility. The most illegible string is the five-figure number, first digit 2, which Walendy guessed at 25000 and Kues guesses at 26000. The rest of the text stands, unless Kues has produced another, unbelievably subtle fabrication. The atrocity story was published two weeks before the actual atrocities at Treblinka II are supposed to have begun; the story implied that these atrocities were going on even before the camp construction is supposed to have begun. Kues also sources another report, dated 29 May 1942, indicating that Treblinka was already “known” as a death camp weeks before it actually became one.

If Nick Terry had voiced cautious doubts instead of strident accusations he would be better placed simply to say: “I grant that the text is not forged, but my suspicions were reasonable”. As it is he now bears a heavier burden to demonstrate that Mattogno and Graf would have no right “to be all over it” - ie they would have no right to count it as a good piece of evidence on the side of the argument that Treblinka the death camp was a legend, reinforced by atrocity propaganda and built on rumours born of fear.

There were very good reasons to suspect Walendy of having produced a forgery. He has, in his time, manipulated numerous photos, most notoriously adding 'spaghetti legs' to the well known photo taken by the Auschwitz Sonderkommandos of the open-air cremations in '44 showing a pile of naked corpses.

I must confess that I reacted to the page of Historische Tatsachen like, well, a revisionist. All surface and no context. Mea culpa. Alas for revs, it's not like there aren't a string of denier forgeries and fabrications to chronicle over the decades. One less doesn't change the collective verdict on the genre.


And as much as I dislike depriving revs of their toys, I am afraid that in the meantime between last asserting that the Walendy facsimile was forged and Kues's article, the context of the newspaper article has become much clearer to me. In an article on early news of the Holocaust from Poland, Dariusz Stola quotes a protocol of the selfsame Polish government in exile cabinet meeting on July 9, 1942 that resulted in the communique, which has Mikolajczyk - a man who would have been four, five or six steps removed from an original report in Poland - talking about deportations of Jews to "Belzec and Trawniki" ending in gassing. Who knows whether it was the government-in-exile press officer or the journalist that compounded the error. Or vice versa. Doesn't really matter. None of these sources from London are first-hand accounts.

Thus, all the newspaper article is, is proof that Chinese whispers exists and that distortions emerge when information is passed through channels of communication.
 
Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

The accusers at the post war trials were liars. Champion liar Simon Wiesenthal claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, when he had been in no more than six camps. Elie Wiesel is a notorious liar. Irene Zizblatt is a liar. Spielberg lies about the Holocaust for profit and to make sure the Holocaust can be continued to be lied about.

And then there are all the nameless liars. The ones who cheer the Wiesenthal, the Wiesels and the Spielbergs. The ones who use the accuser's lies to keep the Holocaust bosom plump. And the Zizblatts who spread the lies to those needed to protect the Holocaust bosom sans its benefit.

An entire culture supported by lies.

So Nick Terry what do you think of the above bastions of the Holocaust?

Maybe someday Nick Terry will also become a renowned Holocaust bulwark.
 
Last edited:
It's episode 11 of the second season.

According to imdb it's the sixth episode going by airdate. The DVD set has the episodes in a different order.

The series is entertaining as hell, but when it comes to skepticism it often isn't much more than an endless appeal to authority. And when they are trying to "debunk" facts about global warming, they are even failing at that. The fact alone, that two "skeptics" wouldn't accept the fact, that AGW is happening, speaks for itself about the quality of their skepticism. Shermer is also kind of a crappy skeptic, at least from what I have seen in his "debates" with holocaust deniers like David Cole.

Apart from that, Penn and Teller have negative views on holocaust denial:


And btw. there is a difference between "not believe the stuff in the bible" and "know, that the stuff in the bible didn't happen". That's why the argument from ignorance doesn't fit here. You guys are telling us it didn't happen, you are not just don't believe the historic narrative.



Lets make a quick comparison, since you are not even trying:

evidence for the stuff in the bible:
- none, not even the bible in itself is free of contradictions, which is a quite poor quality for "the word of god"

evidence for the stuff holocaust survivors told us about the extermination at for example Treblinka:
1. a convergence of evidence between the eyewitness testimonies itself the ARC presented such an example for the old and new gas chamber at Treblinka, since the descriptions match each other, there is simply no way, that these are made up, but you keep ignoring this
2. perpetrator testimonies like that of Franz Suchomel
3. eyewitness testimonies, that are niether from perpetrators, nor from survivors, like this guy
4. physical evidence in form of the masses of ash and bones at the former side found by the investigations of Lukaszkiewicz
5. documents like the "Höfle Telegramm" in combination with the Korherr Report and a letter from Himmler, that show, that til 31.12.42 713555 jews were "sonderbehandelt" (=killed) in Treblinka.
6. photos, that show at least parts of the eyewitness testimonies to be true
7. apart from Treblinka alone, there are also tapes of Himmler he made in Sonthofen or Posen, but of course this is just a jew speaking, who sounds exactly like Himmler on all the other tapes.

So what you are doing is again a false analogy. To bad no sane person falls for such BS.


Of course you completely missed the point, or pretended to do so.
 
Not really. Nick is telling us that he has a hard copy of the infamous Polish Treblinka report that was used in a 1947 trial. He tells us the main part of the report is floating around in various places somewhere on the internet. He also tells us that this report he has next to his laptop has twelve photographs, ten of which people who don't go to archives have never seen. The picture quality isn't very good so he's not going to show these photos to us. But if we saw these photos, oh boy, let me tell you, there's pockmarking on the landscape and skulls and you can see how deep the graves are and everything!!! There's all kinds of documents, some of which are referenced in a summary report German Crimes in Poland which is available somewhere on the internet. Some of this collection was published in Poland in the 1940s and 1950s.

Well I happen to have a report sitting next to my desk that thoroughly documents how the War Refugee Board and the Boy Scouts of America conspired to fabricate the holocaust so that studios have something to make movies about when they run out old TV shows in the 21st century. This report proves the holocaust is a hoax but I'm not going to show it to anybody because I don't spoon feed bigots who cry wah wah everytime I don't back up my claims.

The difference is, you don't have any such report, you just made it up, whereas I described, verbally, the contents of two files which were used in court in 1947, and which have been published in numerous places since, as well as being cited by historians. The originals of the files are in Warsaw. That's where you'd expect them to be. So are the original prints of the photos.

This is a very clear set of indicators as to where the original materials can be checked. That's all that is required. My claim was simply that there are photos of mass graves, excavations, skuls etc at Treblinka in 1945 to be found at AIPN NTN 69, pp.92-95. And that there are images on those pages which are not to be found on a Google Images search.

Sure, I didn't give an absolutely precise reference before, but now I have, that's all I need to do. The file isn't locked away or secret. You can go to Warsaw and consult the file. What you can't do is start demanding that I assuage your rampant paranoia and provide further details beyond the citation. Because that's not how citations work.

If you can prove (not simply assert, but prove) that my citation is incorrect then that's a bad thing. Much like when historians proved that Germar Rudolf made up references to a Stalin order, or took the fabricated reference over from another revisionist.

My previous post was a general description, sure. But that was better than your handwaving in the post to which I replied or indeed, the other couple of hundred Dogzilla Treblinka posts on this forum.

You still don't seem to realise that it is you, not us, who has the burden of (dis)proof here. Hitting your ever receding goalposts is not worth the candle, because the 'Convince Me' game is entirely futile. We already know that you cannot be convinced. What you don't seem to get is that you're not convincing anyone else.
 
According to imdb it's the sixth episode going by airdate. The DVD set has the episodes in a different order.

According to wikipedia it's episode 11, but who cares.

Of course you completely missed the point, or pretended to do so.

You deniers seem to be unable of arguing. Your point was:
Dogzilla said:
On one side we some professor of history defending the Bible and on the other side we have Michael Shermer debunking the Bible. Between 14:58 and 15:13, Michael Shermer and Penn Gillette are telling us how the story about the Jews enslavement in Egypt and escape through the Red Sea has no factual basis outside of the Bible. They cut to the old professor guy reminding us that "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence." Then they cut to Michael Shermer telling us that that is not acceptable.

Sounds like one standard of evidence is OK with the holocaust but not with the not holocaust to me.

To make such an idiotic claim, you have to assume, that there is a general absence of evidence for the holocaust, which is of course wrong and all I did is showing that for the example of Treblinka.

And just because there is an absence of evidence in some details of the holocaust, doesn't mean, that there is no reason to believe in it as a fact or even like you deny it. The problem with the Bible is that there is no evidence at all, not just in some details. And even with the events in the Bible no serious sceptic claims "it didn't happen", they only claim "we don't believe it, since there is no evidence". The second one is no argument from ignorance, the first one certainly is. There is a difference between not believing and denying.
 
Last edited:
.
First of all, the question was a mass murder in contemporary history nor your (in)ability to accurately predict the future, but I'll let those slide to make the point.
.

.
Except that we do have other evidence something happened, just not the specific details Cole brings up.
.

.
And here, there is *no* evidence outside of the bible, not just, for example, a question of how many beasts of burden Moses' group brought along for the trip or how, over 40 years, all of the increasing population would have had the wherewithall to make the clothes they wore -- but whether such a trip even happened.

Find the kind of physical evidence we have for the Holocaust -- the bits of the first set of Commandments, the remains of the Golden Calf. Find the kind of documentary evidence we have for the Holocaust -- a list of names of who all went along. Find the kind of documentary evidence we have for the Holocaust -- any Egyptian at any time discussing a large group of workers having up and left, and what are we going to do to replace them ...


*Then* if Shermer says what you distorted him as saying, you've proven your point.


As it stands, you've proven mine since your best shot here compares *your* disparate standards of evidence, drawing an equivalence between not knowing every last detail about a series of events and having only a single unreliable source for even the general outlines of what happened.


.

.
To you, one standard for the one and another for the other apparently *is* okay.

We already knew that.

Care to try again, with any other (here, I'll type it slow for you)

c o n t e m p o r a r y .
m a s s .
m u r d e r .
f o r .
w h i c h .
s i m i l a r .
e v i d e n c e .
e x i s t s .
a n d .
s h o w .
h o w .
t h a t .
e v i d e n c e .
i s .
u s e d .
o n e .
w a y .
f o r .
t h e .
H o l o c a u s t .
a n d .
a n o t h e r .
f o r .
t h e .
m u r d e r s .
o f .
y o u r .
c h o i c e , .
o r .
h o w .
e v i d e n c e .
f o r .
t h e .
H o l o c a u s t .
i s .
a c c e p t e d .
b y .
a .
c o u r t .
o r .
h i s t o r i a n .
w h i c h .
i s .
n o t .
a c c e p t e d .
f o r .
y o u r .
m u r d e r s .
o r .
v i c e .
v e r s a ..
.
.
We'll wait right here...
.

And you missed the point (or pretended to do so) as well. Throw in some irrelevant distractions, move a few goalposts, and wrap it all in insults.....anything to avoid admitting that I have proven my point.

Now if you want me to prove YOUR point, you'll need to find me another contemporary mass murder on the scale of Treblinka--that's a minimum of 700,000 bodies in a 13 acre area within a 13 month time frame--so we can compare.

I'll be waiting right here.
 
Disputing and ignoring common knowledge. So what's new?


You appear confused. "Common knowledge" is not evidence. Evidence is evidence. So when might we expect some irrefutable evidence from you that the Holocaust never happened and that it is all a forgery? (And when might we expect irrefutable evidence from Saggy that a cabal of Jews control all media everywhere?)
 
According to wikipedia it's episode 11, but who cares.



You deniers seem to be unable of arguing. Your point was:


To make such an idiotic claim, you have to assume, that there is an absence of evidence for the holocaust, which is of course wrong and all I did is showing that for the example of Treblinka.

And just because there is an absence of evidence in some details of the holocaust, doesn't mean, that there is no reason to believe in it as a fact or even like you deny it. The problem with the Bible is that there is no evidence at all, not just in some details. And even with the events in the Bible no serious sceptic claims "it didn't happen", they only claim "we don't believe it, since there is no evidence". The second one is no argument from ignorance, the first one certainly is. There is a difference between not believing and denying.


You do realize that what you're doing is proving my point yet again--that 'absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence' is OK when we're talking about the holocaust but it's not OK when we're talking about another historical event isn't an example of different standards being applied to the holocaust because the holocaust and other historical events aren't the same event.

Lurkers are watching. Keep up the good work.
 
You do realize that what you're doing is proving my point yet again--that 'absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence' is OK when we're talking about the holocaust but it's not OK when we're talking about another historical event isn't an example of different standards being applied to the holocaust because the holocaust and other historical events aren't the same event.

Lurkers are watching. Keep up the good work.

No, you entirely missed the point: There is no general absence of evidence for the holocaust, but there is such an absence for the events in the bible, period. That's why it's rational to not believe, that the events in the bible happend. Nobody denies the events told in the Bible and if someone would show me evidence for such events I would believe that these things happend. This is another major difference to you deniers. You wouldn't believe the historic narrative of the holocaust, if you were sent to one of the death camps in a friggin time machine.

What you deniers are doing, is what all nutters do: You go from an absence of evidence in a little detail (!) of an event to the claim the whole event didn't happen. You can't explain how the motor of this bacteria evolved through evolution, so evolution is a fake. I got news for you: the absence of evidence in a little detail won't let the evidence there is for an event disappear.

No one did this with the events in the bible, not even Shermer or Penn & Teller.

By your logic you don't exist, just because I have no evidence that explains, why you are in such a deep denial and make all these stupid and idiotic claims.
 
Last edited:
You do realize that what you're doing is proving my point yet again--that 'absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence' is OK when we're talking about the holocaust but it's not OK when we're talking about another historical event isn't an example of different standards being applied to the holocaust because the holocaust and other historical events aren't the same event.

Lurkers are watching. Keep up the good work.

I think the lurkers are perfectly capable of following the argument and are making note of the fact that your claim was profoundly bogus.

You were asked to show that your standards of evidence were the same for the Holocaust as for other historical events, and the first example you offer dates from somewhere between the 7th and 13th Century BC, over 9,000 years ago.
 
And you missed the point (or pretended to do so) as well.
.
No, my point was that the double standard you whined about was your own, something you demonstrated amply.

Your point appears to have been to offer that demonstration -- at least, that's what you accomplished.

If you had another point it was poorly made and should be restated, using an example which actually supports that point.
.
Throw in some irrelevant distractions, move a few goalposts, and wrap it all in insults.....anything to avoid admitting that I have proven my point.
.
I understand that you were distracted by no one being fooled by your failed analogy, but the only goalpost was moved by you.

Free hint: The Exodus is no more history than Joe Smith's golden plates. In fact, less since there are supposed eyewitnesses who claim to have seen the latter. Literally no evidence for Exodus, lots of nit-picky details not known. Mountains of evidence for the Holocaust, some nit-picky details not know.

Are you really going to claim you see no difference?

If so, please produce eyewitness accounts from both the Moses gang and the Egyptians saying they had gone whether you claim them to be forged or not.
Please produce forensic evidence to support the Golden Calf, whether you claim that it is good evidence or not.
Please produce contemporary documentation of anyone else discussing the column of smoke by day and the column of fire by night.
Please produce one -- just one -- name of a soldier serving under Amalak
.
Now if you want me to prove YOUR point, you'll need to find me another contemporary mass murder on the scale of Treblinka--that's a minimum of 700,000 bodies in a 13 acre area within a 13 month time frame--so we can compare.
.
You obviously had one in mind when you made your double standard claim -- which was it?

And one has to wonder why you have now so obviously moved the goalposts from all the rest of history to a specific number within a specific time frame -- are those numbers somehow key to the double standard? I reduced it to mass murders to make it easier on you, given the various types of evidence you sneer at for the Holocaust. Your use of that camp, that toll and that time frame as if all that were to the Holocaust (which was *your* original claim -- the Holocaust in general, not one camp with one toll and one deadline) appears to be setting up for a special pleading.

No, we will stick with your original claim and my original reduction in scope: contemporary mass murder with either evidence of a type rejected for the Holocaust, a type accept for the Holocaust but not for your murder, or application / interpretation of said evidence substantively different for the Holocaust than for your murder.

But since you insist I choose, I select the Great Crime: 1.5 million over the course of close to four years, the events which heralded the coining of the very term genocide.
.
I'll be waiting right here.
.
The ball is in your court.
.
 
Last edited:
Dogzilla;7542981 See said:
OK, here's the problem. You've not even vaguely proven that there is a "holocaust standard" of evidence versus another standard of evidence. The only way to make such a claim is comparatively, by showing that other events in history are discussed, written up and studied in a totally different way to the Holocaust, with an obvious common standard of evidence that is absent from discussion, writing and research on the Holocaust.

You can, of course, introduce the era as a reference point. But doing so will immediately beg the question of whether different standards of evidence prevail regarding earlier epochs. Which is true, they do. Ancient historians have very few written sources to rely upon, what sources are available are often laden with mythology, most were written down long after the events they describe. Archaeology is great for some things but not for others, but it's more often used for ancient history because it helps date things more reliably.

Medievalists have more written sources, and thus don't rely as heavily on archaeology, because there are fewer gaping blank holes. But enough that it's not always possible to date the births and deaths of kings and queens accurately. The written sources are still largely hearsay and some accounts of events - the sole account - can be written down many years later. Medievalists get very creative squeezing sources like law codes dry for what they reveal about society at the time, because other sources aren't available.

Early modernists tend to cry because they find literally one file of modern-looking bank records or trade figures or corn prices, and have to guess the others, since some idiot burned them 200 years ago in a revolution. But there are now things like letters and diaries and a great deal more contemporary evidence, even if it doesn't always come from the object of interest.

Modernists have it a lot easier, but there are still big differences between the Napoleonic era in Europe, and the 1990s in the same continent. That might not apply to Africa or Asia, however. How many child soldiers in Sierra Leone kept diaries? Some might be literate enough to write memoirs, but not many. Very few soldiers with Wellington were literate enough to write letters, keep a diary or write reminiscences later on. A very large number of soldiers with Haig could do those things, and even more with Montgomery. But then people got lazy and insisted that someone audio or videotape them reminscing, since oral history became a big deal. Not just for the Holocaust, for all kinds of topics.

Most historians consider themselves social historians. A growing number consider themselves cultural historians. These fields have very different expectations of historical evidence and thus might be considered to have different standards of evidence. Most historians are generally interested in why questions, which often require different kinds of evidence to who, what, when and how questions.

Thus, it's an absolute certainty that whatever standards of evidence you think should prevail in history, do not in fact prevail for the overwhelming majority of historical research. That begs questions about whether your standards of evidence really hold true anywhere other than in your head.

This is also true of the histories of mass murders, genocides and wars. I refer you back to the Sierra Leone example. We cannot expect the RUF to have left massive written records. The country is rather lacking in the kind of resources that one might expect to be available in Washington, DC, and nobody is going to make much of an effort to exhaustively research every single atrocity in the conflict. Thus the best that anyone can do is provide a feeble estimate for the number who died in the prolonged civil war there, even though there were atrocities and Charles Taylor is on trial for war crimes. Nobody can really count how many have died in the Second Congo War other than through simple subtraction demographics. More estimates for the Rwandan genocide.

And it's no different for many conflicts in Europe or Asia. The Russian Civil War was a pretty momentous event, the atrocities committed in the Red Terror laid the foundation for much of the world's foreign policy until 1991. But we can only guess at the true extent. More guesstimates and demographics for the Great Leap Forward, another of many events leading to the discrediting of the idea of communism as a viable political system. There's a prize-winning new book out about the famine caused by the Great Leap Forward by Frank Dikoetter at SOAS. As I have a few big journeys coming up I might well get hold of a copy and see what evidence he has, and how it compares to what I know of the evidence for the 1932 Ukrainian famine or the big famines discussed in Mike Davis's Late Victorian Holocausts about 19th Century famines.

These are all historical events. Moreover they're relevant historical events for any comparison to the Holocaust, because they concern violent upheavals resulting in major losses of life, whose impacts often continue to reverberate internationally. That's a valid data-set for comparison.

You're not going to find the strawman version of history peddled by deniers in studies of these upheavals. Historians use witness testimonies, they don't obsess over physical evidence, and they don't cry if a specific type of document is unavailable.

Otherwise, Solzhenitsyn would never have been able to write The Gulag Archipelago, would he now?
 
The accusers at the post war trials were liars. Champion liar Simon Wiesenthal claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, when he had been in no more than six camps. .

Okay let me understand. You consider the holocaust invalid because an individual claimed to have been at 13 death camps when in reality he'd only been to 5

So who were the 5 death camps for?
 
You do realize that what you're doing is proving my point yet again--that 'absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence' is OK when we're talking about the holocaust but it's not OK when we're talking about another historical event isn't an example of different standards being applied to the holocaust because the holocaust and other historical events aren't the same event.

Lurkers are watching. Keep up the good work.

And lets remember your selective desire for evidence. Only bodies laying in mass graves will satisfy you - knowing after 60 years the chances of finding such human remains is almost impossible.

Using your evidence requirement would mean some pretty interesting changes to historty. The Battle of Little Big Horn is now going to need a drastic rewrite. D-Day never happened

Battle of Waterloo is a myth pushed by anti French feeling. The list is quite endless.
 
So who were the 5 death camps for?

Listen up. The people I mentioned are the keystones of the Holocaust.

Get it? The Holocaust is fabricated by liars and their lies. Get it? The Holocaust is the classic people who cry wolf.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The accusers at the post war trials were liars. Champion liar Simon Wiesenthal claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, when he had been in no more than six camps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Wiesenthal#Criticism
Criticism

British author Guy Walters has characterized Wiesenthal as "a liar" and written that he would "concoct outrageous stories about his war years and make false claims about his academic career. There are so many inconsistencies between his three main memoirs and between those memoirs and contemporaneous documents that it is impossible to establish a reliable narrative from them. Wiesenthal’s scant regard for the truth makes it possible to doubt everything he ever wrote or said. It is important to note that Walters went on to say, "His figure is a complex and important one. If there was a motive for his duplicity, it may well have been rooted in good intentions." and "It is partly thanks to Wiesenthal that the Holocaust has been remembered and properly recorded and this is perhaps his greatest legacy."[13]

Daniel Finkelstein has described Walters' research as "impeccable" and reported that the Wiener Library supports his re-evaluation of Wiesenthal. The Library's director Ben Barkow stated that "accepting that Wiesenthal was a showman and a braggart and, yes, even a liar, can live alongside acknowledging the contribution he made".[14]

Although Wiesenthal later claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, he had in fact been in no more than six camps.[15]


Notice Wiki said camps.

Not death camps. Hedging their bets like Ike, Winston, and Charles?




You're funny.

Okay let me understand. You consider the holocaust invalid because an individual claimed to have been at 13 death camps when in reality he'd only been to 5


How the hell did you get the above from what I said?

The key is why? Is it the same reason the Holocaust is an exaggeration of LIES?
 
Listen up. The people I mentioned are the keystones of the Holocaust.

Get it? The Holocaust is fabricated by liars and their lies. Get it? The Holocaust is the classic people who cry wolf.

Yup, I agree, the deniers are the keystone cops of the internet. Tell me something new.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
The accusers at the post war trials were liars. Champion liar Simon Wiesenthal claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, when he had been in no more than six camps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Wiesenthal#Criticism

After all this time, you still cannot figure out the quote function. That is a sad commentary on your education.


Notice Wiki said camps.

Not death camps. Hedging their bets like Ike, Winston, and Charles?




You're funny.

Okay let me understand. You consider the holocaust invalid because an individual claimed to have been at 13 death camps when in reality he'd only been to 5


How the hell did you get the above from what I said?

The key is why? Is it the same reason the Holocaust is an exaggeration of LIES?
That is what is known as a terminological inexactitude.
 
Listen up. The people I mentioned are the keystones of the Holocaust.
.
Listen up: according to *whom* are these the "keystones"?
.
Get it? The Holocaust is fabricated by liars and their lies. Get it?
.
Really? Which of these people claimed that THHP was nothing but lies? That Krege's joke of a report proved anything? That a website could not discuss Jewish / Israeli lies without being branded anti-semitic? That Jews control the MM

Get it?


You are the only one whose lies have been repeatedly documented here.

Get it?


It is denier chimps who have nothing but lies to justify their irrational hate.

Get it?

Like Mr. Muchos Nombres who, not content with playing with an imaginary friend while a child, decided to send his to college and get them a variety of advanced degrees so that he could quote what they "wrote' about Germy's own work, and he could then cite their glowing approvals.



Or like Unka Ernie, who took people's money to mount an expedition to the South Pole, there to find the seekrit Nazi UFO base he claimed was there. Or would you rather talk about his having torched his own house? Lied to Immigration? Gave aid and support to those planning the armed overthrow of a sovereign country?




Or like pug-mug Irving, who steals documents from archives, again lied to Immigration, and has been proven in at least three cases of which I am aware to have lied in court?



These are *your* leading lights -- feel free to contradict me by citing any other denier chimp who has even pretended to do any research in the past 60 years and who has published anywhere near (+/- 20%, shall we say?) as these three "stand-up guys" on the subject?




What's that?


You can't?



No one has spoon fed you a rejoinder to mindlessly parrot without bothering to check for yourself?


Yeah, we get it, alright.
.
The Holocaust is the classic people who cry wolf.
.
No, the Holocaust is one of the most documented sets of events in history.
.
The accusers at the post war trials were liars.
.
Not that you have ever even attempted to demonstrate.

Unlike the THHP. Unlike Krege. Unlike discussion of spies. Unlike Jewish control of MM. Unlike Rudolf, Zundel and Irving.




Get it?
.
Champion liar Simon Wiesenthal claimed to have been in 13 concentration camps, including five death camps, when he had been in no more than six camps.
.
And...?

Even if all you have spewed in this sentence is correct: SO WHAT?

The normative understanding of the Holocaust does *not* hinge on what one man may or may not have written in a book he may or may not have intended as being a history book which has never even once been cited in court or by a real historian.




Get it?
.
Hedging their bets like Ike, Winston, and Charles?
.
That word does not mean what I think you believe it to mean.

Ike never mentioned the Battle of the Bulge -- I suppose that never happened. Churchill never discussed Hess -- I guess he was a figment of someone's imagination, too. And DeGaulle never even hints that he thought the Pope was more than war time propaganda.

I suppose this means there's no Vatican to this day.







Get it?
.
The key is why?
.
Why you hate Jews? You've never given a reasonable answer.
.
Is it the same reason the Holocaust is an exaggeration of LIES?
.
Since your hatred is amply demonstrated right here (yet *still* not as well documented as the Holocaust) as well as your dishonest attempts to justify it, no.

It's merely the same reason you are compelled to deny the history of which your posts show you to be mostly ignorant.
.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom