Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

Status
Not open for further replies.
Can somebody explain this?

What kind of force did this, you can see it at 00:57

Maybe a broken steam line or over-heated reservoir of some sort. This is on a mechanical floor where such things would be located.

The plume lasts for about three seconds. It is less dense when it appears than it is in the second second of its existence. The ring-shaped object ejected with it seems to be travelling a bit more slowly thant the puff of whatever. This is inconstistantr with its having been ejected by HE.
 
If that debris had been ejected by any kind of HE, it would have looked like this.



Start at about 20 seconds.
 
Can somebody explain this?

What kind of force did this, you can see it at 00:57



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1FJBVkh4s
Oystein asked a rhetorical question of Marokkaan; the answer he would give is "this is a bomb which was used to knock out the structural support of a column." In and of itself, it could have been a bomb, so let's add it to our list of possibilities.

In Part 7 of my YouTube video series I borrow from Triforcharity a partial list of things that explode or make explosive sounds in fires. Let's be inclusive here and add Marokkaan's implied explanation of it being a bomb and Oystein's explanation of a partially collapsing floor. Here's what the list looks like:

A bomb that was planted for controlled demolition purposes
A partially collapsing floor
HVAC equipment including condensors and compressors
Cleaning supplies
CRT type TV's and computer monitors.
Large motors that have an oil reservoir for lube.
Elevator lift motors
hydraulic pistons found in office chair.
UPS battery backups
Tires in vehicles
Steam explosions when water hits a hot fire or molten aluminum
Propane tanks
A metal fire, possibly aluminum, as NIST proposed
After the first collapse, firefighters’ SCOTT pack bottles
Explosions following White smoke
Two problems leap out at me with Marokkaan's option: 1) The explosions was not nearly loud enough to rip through a WTC Tower steel column 2) The explosion was one random shot, not part of a series of flashing explosions up and down the building immediately preceding its collapse.

Some of the other possibilities can be picked away at. Someone could even question Oystein's hypothesis of partially collapsing floor, but that still leaves all the other possibilities to look through, as well as the established fact that explosions happen all the time in fires. Even I have seen that firsthand in the only significant fire I ever stood close to. Tri and other firefighters have seen it over and over. It must be be a nightmare for the fire safety guy on any crew, because explosions in fires are random (like your video shows) and deadly.

BTW I did a thread much like this a few months ago before Marokkaan joined this thread, buit I repeated it because the point is worth placing front and center in any discussion of explosions. Yes there were explosions just like there are in other fires (as we saw in another recent YouTube video posted here yesterday). Were the explosions caused by bombs? I've found no evidence of that.
 
Were the buildings destroyed or not?
Yes.

Were the buildings completely destroyed or not? You must agree that they were.
No. Parts of the buildings were still standing. They were destroyed for their original purpose, but every single piece was not destroyed.

"Destruction" is emotive language designed to bias the viewer towards Controlled Demolition.

I like how you admit the buildings collapsed, yet claim it's "immoral" (more loaded words) to actually call it "a collapse". I love Truther doublespeak.

Immoral? Well, OK. You're giving them some credit for intelligence. I think there are some other words we could use for people who call this a "collapse":

http://911reports.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/wtc1b-copy.jpg?w=240

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collapse
to fall or shrink together abruptly and completely : fall into a jumbled or flattened mass through the force of external pressure <a blood vessel that collapsed>
2
: to break down completely : disintegrate <his case had collapsed in a mass of legal wreckage — Erle Stanley Gardner>
3
: to cave or fall in or give way <the bridge collapsed>
4
: to suddenly lose force, significance, effectiveness, or worth <fears that the currency may collapse>
5
: to break down in vital energy, stamina, or self-control through exhaustion or disease; especially : to fall helpless or unconscious
6
: to fold down into a more compact shape <a chair that collapses>
Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Or making snide, indirect passive-aggressive implications instead of actual points?
 
Just show me another gravity-only driven collapse that produces such ejections and I'll believe you. :rolleyes:
Ah, yes, your old "unprecedented = impossible" canard. The nice thing about 9/11 is that so many things were unprecedented (and unreproducible) that it's rather difficult to find similar examples for many of them, much less the entire event. If such evidence were produced, you'd move the goalposts to "gravity-driven collapse from fire", I have no doubt.
 
The Towers burned for only 56 and 102 minutes before they were converted to pieces of metal, dust, and small fragments in 15 seconds each. One need not be an engineer to see the obvious.
There was nothing in the cores that would burn all those columns to such a degree. What space there was in there was filled with elevator shafts and stairwells walled in fire resistant chalkboard. Besides, thousands of people walked down those stairs to safety before the buildings were blown up. do you really imagine the heat was so intense it could melt steel would not engulf the stairs at their center??

No, your arguments are not convincing in the least so far..(but I will watch it all) You began by quoting Thomas Eager who wrote a small paper (like a People magazine article) stating that the buildings "fell through the path of least resistance." He doesnt explain how it is that we can all see they went straight down, through themselves, through the path of maximum resistance. But apparently a bloated academic can make any obviously incorrect assertion and not be ridiculed for it so that isn't necessary. Statements like his show clearly how the word of an 'expert' can be utterly incorrectand why 'appeal to authority' is a logical fallacy. Because an 'eager' or 'Sunder' can be found to say bloody anything.

That is why reason is the standard in a court of law and regular ol' lay people sit in that seat of ultimate power and choose between competing experts with the direct instruction that reason alone is to be your guide. So all you need is to be informed of the facts and determine for yourself what is most reasonable. There should be no sides in a quest for truth.

The north tower is telling because of how small the upper block was. Whatever heat there was would've been wicked away by the massive lattice of steel columns that made up the core.while it burned, and any softening of steel that did occur would be local and temporary.. Things burn up and the fires seek more fuel. The columns would cool and regain their strength. The reason, I think they were forced to blow up the towers so quickly is because the fires were clearly dying down. Here is a photo of WTC employee Edna Cintron standing in the center of the North Tower plane impact waving for help, happy in the confidence that she will now be rescued. Do you see a raging inferno behind her.. or the heat from all this fire below roasting her?
No



Have you looked how the building was made? Why would those huge corner box columns just break apart from the weight the 12 story upper block in the North Tower?

And in the ST there is video evidence showing copious amounts of molten metal pouring out of the building at the very point where it will break apart moments later. What is the logical conclusion?

And then the level of destruction again reveals explosives. A different kind obviously. that would so thoroughly destroy the buildings http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/groundzero.html

1100 innocent victims of which no genetic trace has been found is another huge red flag I would like you to explain. Tens of thousands of pieces, most so badly mangled they cant be tested for dna is what they told us in the papers. Does that make sense? We found Zarqawi's dna after dropping a 500lb bomb on his head. Should falling rubble remove all trace of more than a third of all the people that were in those buildings? That's what you're arguing.

Gravity (especially in such a massive over-designed structure) cannot account for the energy required to accomplish all these tasks. Clearly. And you dont need anything but common sense to certain of it. Even if the whole thing was allowed to fall completely on someone.. with no supports at all..there would be some trace of genetic material remaining that would identify who the person was/ It is difficult to believe that you find your own arguments convincing in the face of so much damning evidence that reveals the use of explosives.

I dont get how anyone can look carefully at the facts (videos, photos, testimony, the behavior of authorities, lack of any real evidence against those we blamed, the rushing off two 2 wars/ FEMA, RJ Lee, NGS, 911 Comm. Active Thermitic Material Found paper. NIST, and the valid critiques brought up by independent investigators and whistle-blowers like Kevin Ryan) of 9-11 and not be sure they were blown up/ I get being fooled by the media, personal incredulity, and cognitive dissonance.. I get all of that and went through it myself. But once you look. How do you dismiss all these things??

The 99 day fires alone are more damning than anything you've put forth so far. Underground no less. Fires that could not be put out despite the steady stream of water. So much water that 'we are creating a lake in lower Manhattan.' FDNY spokesman told the NY Times. With 2800f recorded by Bechtel a week later/
These are facts. And this, despite a solid week of rain and constant water from FDNY (when that reading was taken) but the fire would rage for 99 days. A worker is quoted on video over a month later as saying, "it's still roaring, red hot like an oven in there". This..like the 1100 unaccounted for human beings,,would not have been possible in a truly natural event.
 
Last edited:
Can somebody explain this?

What kind of force did this, you can see it at 00:57



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1FJBVkh4s

Some kind of local explosion going off inside and we see the smoke and what looks like a jacket (or curtain or table cloth etc) flying out but there is no concrete like the squibs or energy like what will follow in the hundreds (maybe thousands) of powerful multi-floor wide explosions which so completely shredded the entire building in 15 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSApOavkHg8

It could've been a gas or propane tank used in the kitchen of a WTC company. (no gas lines in the building) Or even an incendiary used to spread the fire on the inside of the building. Its impossible to be sure.. but I dont think it is as relevant as some of other facts that point so strongly to explosives.
 
Here is a photo of WTC employee Edna Cintron standing in the center of the North Tower plane impact waving for help, happy in the confidence that she will now be rescued. Do you see a raging inferno behind her.. or the heat from all this fire below roasting her?
No

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_349174e6280d4d49aa.jpg[/qimg]

Just when you think twoofers can't sink any lower...........:mad:

Edna Cintron died after being forced to jump, like about 200 others.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163359

I count fire on at least 10 floors of WTC1 in the fifth photo here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/10/new-911-aerial-photos-rel_n_457163.html

Now go away and do some thinking and research before you make such a fool of yourself again.:mad:
 
Last edited:
1100 innocent victims of which no genetic trace has been found is another huge red flag I would like you to explain.

Let's drop a dozen multi-ton beams on you, then allow you to be exposed to an incredibly hot, caustic environment for upwards of 2 months, and see what happens to your corpse.

Tens of thousands of pieces, most so badly mangled they cant be tested for dna is what they told us in the papers. Does that make sense?

Yes.

Let's drop a dozen multi-ton beams on you, then allow you to be exposed to an incredibly hot, caustic environment for upwards of 2 months, and see what happens to your corpse.


We found Zarqawi's dna after dropping a 500lb bomb on his head. Should falling rubble remove all trace of more than a third of all the people that were in those buildings? That's what you're arguing.

Did Zarqawi's body sit for a month or more in a caustic, hot, firey environment? No.

False dillema logical fallacy.

Gravity (especially in such a massive over-designed structure) cannot account for the energy required to accomplish all these tasks.

Not by itself, no. You would need something else. Like, maybe a couple tons of solid steel, and lot of violent collisions, and a hot, caustic envionment, and a little bit of time, and you'll never be found.


As clear as mud.

And you dont need anything but common sense to certain of it.

Apparently, this is an area you lack the requirements....

Even if the whole thing was allowed to fall completely on someone.. with no supports at all..there would be some trace of genetic material remaining that would identify who the person was/

Did you forget the massive fires and whatnot?

It is difficult to believe that you find your own arguments convincing in the face of so much damning evidence that reveals the use of explosives.

Argument from personal ignorance noted.

The 99 day fires alone are more damning than anything you've put forth so far. Underground no less.

Again, I have explained to you how much heat energy was available in just 5 floors of the WTC. Why did you ignore the massive numbers I put forth?

Did you have a hard time understanding them?

Fires that could not be put out despite the steady stream of water. So much water that 'we are creating a lake in lower Manhattan.' FDNY spokesman told the NY Times.

http://firechief.com/mag/firefighting_waterjet_technology_cuts/

Read the article. Then tell me what conclusion you've reached.

(It's difficult to put out a fire that is 3 stories below you, with a metric ****ton of stuff in the way)


With 2800f recorded by Bechtel a week later/

Citation needed.

These are facts all lies.

FTFY. No need to thank me.

And this, despite a solid week of rain and constant water from FDNY (when that reading was taken) but the fire would rage for 99 days.

Citation needed. (You'll find, that too, is a lie)

A worker is quoted on video over a month later as saying, "it's still roaring, red hot like an oven in there". This..like the 1100 unaccounted for human beings,,would not have been possible in a truly natural event.

I wouldn't really classify this as a "naturally occuring" event. It's kinda man-made. Well, terrorist made anyway.....

But, I, and my 16+ years of firefighting experience, do not find this suprising. But, you're more than welcome to contact any local firehouse, and ask their opinion. Please, feel free to share your results.

(You won't, because you won't like the answers you get)
 
Some kind of local explosion going off inside and we see the smoke and what looks like a jacket (or curtain or table cloth etc) flying out

What we see flying out is most likely a bird screen used to keep the birds from nesting in the vents on the mechanical floors. This includes both laden and unladen swallows

Merritt-n-Harris_MER_setback_bnw.jpg
 
Let's drop a dozen multi-ton beams on you, then allow you to be exposed to an incredibly hot, caustic environment for upwards of 2 months, and see what happens to your corpse.

It freaking amazes how this can be such a damn mystery to people... and how the simplest answer is bounced like a hot potato by the conspiracy nuts.
 
It freaking amazes how this can be such a damn mystery to people... and how the simplest answer is bounced like a hot potato by the conspiracy nuts.

Do they think that their insides are made out of the same stuff that Stretch Armstrong is? I mean, you could do damn near anything to that little bastard, and he was fine with it!

So.....maybe.....can the NWO.......nah, they wouldn't do tha.......:boxedin:
 
The Towers burned for only 56 and 102 minutes before they were converted to pieces of metal, dust, and small fragments in 15 seconds each. One need not be an engineer to see the obvious.

Yep.....anyone with the slightest knowledge now what happens when steel is exposed to heat.....even from over 100 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drsgs6-3Qlg

"wicking" is only in the vacuous minds of troofers.
 
Last edited:
Oystein, do you think that the concrete floors (which are porous) could have beeen impregnated with nanothermite ? When ignited that would instantly boil any water residue in the concrete,blow the concrete into a fine dust and vapourise the rebar in the floors, the floor pans and the steel decking, all of which are largely missing in the rubble pile.

The iron microspheres (which are a product of vapourised steel) are found distributed throughout the WTC dust .I understand that the the further away from the building the less microspheres which indicates that the focus for the source was the building. The distribution of the dust over the debris field and much of lower Manhatter would rule rule out the incendiary nanothermite that was in the hollow core columns being the source of the unreacted nanothermite so it must have come from the floors.

Maybe that's why we have tiny pieces of unreacted thermite with a grey layer . The grey layer might have been like the skin on a rice pudding as Sunstealer would say with some unreacted nanothermite from the impregnated concrete still attached and ejected so quickly that not all of it ignited.

No, No and No.
 
My responses in Bold:

There was nothing in the cores that would burn all those columns to such a degree.... Besides, thousands of people walked down those stairs to safety before the buildings were blown up. do you really imagine the heat was so intense it could melt steel would not engulf the stairs at their center??

Excellent question, one I have not heard asked. I'm going to take a stab at this and see if it can be verified by fire safety or engineering experts. I'm guessing that the Towers were designed to offer maximum insulation for the staircases because that's where people would be in a fire. So while the blue jet fuel was coursing down the elevator shafts and causing fires and explosions and heat, the stairwells were well insulated and able to buy some tim,e for the escapees.

The north tower is telling because of how small the upper block was. Whatever heat there was would've been wicked away by the massive lattice of steel columns that made up the core while it burned, and any softening of steel that did occur would be local and temporary..

Did you see the Sherman's Necktie YouTube video... the WTC was not the heat sink Gage claims it was. I also cover this in Part 8 or my videos, I believe

Things burn up and the fires seek more fuel. The columns would cool and regain their strength.

See Part 13 of my videos, where I talk about the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat's theory that after thermal expansion, there was no force to "desag" the beams so as they cooled they shrank in that sagged condition, and caused even more inward bowing.


The reason, I think they were forced to blow up the towers so quickly is because the fires were clearly dying down. Here is a photo of WTC employee Edna Cintron standing in the center of the North Tower plane impact waving for help, happy in the confidence that she will now be rescued.

My video part one shows enormous fires near the end. There were parts the fire had moved through, especially at the impact point where the burning had been going on the longest. But in an hour or so the fire had grown from 3 floors to 14, and it took only 15 minutes for the fires to move all the way across and through the initial damaged floors

Do you see a raging inferno behind her.. or the heat from all this fire below roasting her?
No

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_349174e6280d4d49aa.jpg[/qimg]

And in the ST there is video evidence showing copious amounts of molten metal pouring out of the building at the very point where it will break apart moments later. What is the logical conclusion?

I conclude that melted and discolored aluminum from the plane got spilled out of the one and only place where the plane crashed into the building, because the aluminum's tempertaure exceeded its 1200-degree melting point in the fire. I talk about this in Part 8 of my video series. Do you conclude that the presence of molten metal quietly pouring out of one side of one of the buildings prior to the collapse is evidence of a logical chain of loud explosives bringing one of the world's tallest buildings down? Why?

Gravity (especially in such a massive over-designed structure) cannot account for the energy required to accomplish all these tasks. Clearly.


Not clear at all. Gordon Ross's paper on the energy required to effect this collapse makes some very bad assumptions, some of which I discuss in parts 3 and 6 of my YouTube rebuttals. To get a neutral opinion, I asked 14 physicists about this and every one said that once the building began its collapse, there was plenty of kinetic energy to overcome all structural resistance. I put the same question to a group of scientists in a physics chat room and every single one said the same thing. David Chandler and Gordon Ross in the 9/11 Truth movement are the only two I've seen who have created calculations to the contrary, but they are up against every physicist I could find who would talk with me. Every single one. Plus every single genuinely peer reviewed paper, of which there are over 100 on this subject, and not one that has been fully peer reviewed from the 9/11 Truth side.



I dont get how anyone can look carefully at the facts (videos, photos, testimony, the behavior of authorities, lack of any real evidence against those we blamed, the rushing off two 2 wars/ FEMA, RJ Lee, NGS, 911 Comm. Active Thermitic Material Found paper. NIST, and the valid critiques brought up by independent investigators and whistle-blowers like Kevin Ryan) of 9-11 and not be sure they were blown up/ I get being fooled by the media, personal incredulity, and cognitive dissonance.. I get all of that and went through it myself. But once you look. How do you dismiss all these things??

I didn't dismiss these things. I went through them, one by one, and carefully rebutted every single one of them. How can you look at all 235 of my reasons for natural collapsed and still believe in controlled demolition? I'm as baffled by you as you are by me, my friend.


With 2800f recorded by Bechtel a week later/ These are facts.

I carefully investigate the claim of 2800 degree temperatures in part 8 of my video. There is one report of this, from DEA helicopters which are not even calibrated to measure temperatures that high. The NASA thermal images were much more accurate, and they were the ones used by real firefighters whose lives depended on the correct answer to this heat question, as you can see in part 8 of my video series. My video series is pretty complete. It's becoming obvious that I've now already responded to almost every question or claim anyone is throwing at us. These videos meticulously cover most everything re the collapses of the 3 WTC buildings on 9/11. It's so thorough it's too much for most people to even watch!
 
I carefully investigate the claim of 2800 degree temperatures in part 8 of my video. There is one report of this, from DEA helicopters which are not even calibrated to measure temperatures that high. The NASA thermal images were much more accurate, and they were the ones used by real firefighters whose lives depended on the correct answer to this heat question, as you can see in part 8 of my video series. My video series is pretty complete. It's becoming obvious that I've now already responded to almost every question or claim anyone is throwing at us. These videos meticulously cover most everything re the collapses of the 3 WTC buildings on 9/11. It's so thorough it's too much for most people to even watch!

I can't wait to tear into yoUr 235.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom