Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Danceme]

Dancme,

It is possible that it is blood from the crime scene. However, I think it is more likely that some substance or substances have metal ions such as copper, cobalt, or iron that is causing the reaction. It is just my speculation.

I supposed it must be blood from the crime scene as well. If it were some other substance containing metal ions, where did it come from? Perhaps it is something inherent in the composition of the booties, just as luminol reacts to fire retardant automobile fabrics.

Peggy Ganong included an outright lie in her book review when she said this about Deanna Knox: "her sister Deanna’s choice of courtroom attire on July 4 (red-white-and-blue short shorts and midriff exposing top)"

Here is what Deanna actually wore. Peggy has a photo on her own website titled "4th of July attire" !!

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=34&image_id=2843

If you prefer not to visit PMF:

http://i.imgur.com/D33oR.jpg

I think there's no question the Knoxes did not understand the formality that was required of them in such a serious situation. The attire was casual at best and short skirts and shorts and baseball hats are out of place in a courtroom. I'm not judging any of them by that, just pointing out what should have been the obvious. They seem a close knit, loyal, and nice family, and I am impressed at their devotion to their daughter.
However, attire is considered so important in a courtroom here in Canada even that my boyfriend who is a lawyer councils his clients on what to wear in court, what demeanor to adopt and even has on occasion given a client clothing to wear from his own closet to help him make a better impression.
It may seem petty to comment on what someone wears but there is truth to the notion that you can be judged on your appearance, especially in highly formal and tradition rich venues such as courts of law. JMO.

 

[christianahannah]

Interesting pieces. Wish I did not have to use Google translate, which muddies things. It sounds as though Kercher's sister would feel Meredith were forgotten if Knox and Sollecito had their convictions overturned (from what I could glean from the awkward translation)---I have complete sympathy for her grieving her beloved sister, but if the 2 are innocent, it does not detract from the horrendous tragic loss at all.

That is not how I read the letter but rather Meredith has been forgotten amidst the media frenzy. I think no matter the outcome of the appeal the Kercher family has already had the worst happen to them - the death of their daughter and sister.

I had a difficult time grasping the gist of the second article. Are they in court already, rather than waiting for Monday? Or is that a pic of Aug court date, probably... And who is the cat lady who saw Raffaele?

No, not in court today. Depositions of the prisoners were filed yesterday by the prosecution.

 

[Teddy2007]

An article containing a letter written by Stephy Kercher (Meredith's sister):

I found Stephy Kercher's article a little disturbing. The part that worries me is that she says "Everyone that read this, or that follow this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood mixed with other traces in the bathroom, along the corridor and in Filomena's room, and also many other bloody prints. Remember also all the proof that has been presented up until this day, 10,000 pages of proof".

Someone is not giving the Kercher's the exact story. Apart from that she expresses disbelief that the DNA evidence can now be called into question - how can it be deemed good in the first trial, and dubious now? She still has faith in the Perugia police and the investigation/trial. Let's hope she also has faith if Amanda and Raffaele are freed.

 

[Darth Rotor]

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=34&image_id=2843
Aha, another Foxy Knoxy.

All she was doing was saying, with colors, "hey, Italians! I'm American and proud. Your little anti-American witch hunt against my sister, whose only crime was being American, ain't gonna work. We'll bomb your Nazi butts just like we did in World War 1!"

We bombed parts of Italy in WW II, Caustic, and calling the Fascists in Italy Nazi's isn't correct. First came the Fascists, Benito and friends, and about ten years later the Nazi's did their impression of that political dance.

Are you sure she wore Red, White and Blue as an act of defiance? If so, how are you so sure?

In the words of Rod Stewart, she wears it well.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I found Stephy Kercher's article a little disturbing. The part that worries me is that she says "Everyone that read this, or that follow this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood mixed with other traces in the bathroom, along the corridor and in Filomena's room, and also many other bloody prints. Remember also all the proof that has been presented up until this day, 10,000 pages of proof".

Someone is not giving the Kercher's the exact story. Apart from that she expresses disbelief that the DNA evidence can now be called into question - how can it be deemed good in the first trial, and dubious now? She still has faith in the Perugia police and the investigation/trial. Let's hope she also has faith if Amanda and Raffaele are freed.

Yes, I found the piece disturbing for the same reasons. It is of course a terrible tragedy and supreme pain to have one's sister brutally murdered. My total sympathy goes out to her on that score. But if Guede acted alone, that is no less tragic. Meredith's death will not be diminished nor forgotten if Knox and Sollecito are acquitted. If the attorney has made the family believe that AK and RS being freed will be an insult and injustice to the victim, that is not good, but it seems rather obvious.

 

[Magister]

Appeal Court schedule.....apparently

http://twitter.com/#!/blnadeau

Does this make sense?

 

[Grinder]

The family inexplicably did seem to miss much in the way of presentation of themselves and Amanda. How their lawyers and PR machine could have allowed them to do as they did is nonplussing.

Having said that it is also remarkable that the PG people claim that the Knox/Melloxes are at the same time low class trailer trash and rich corporate types capable of spending millions on PR. I've used google to look at their homes and they definitely aren't either. They live in middle class neighborhoods in traditional homes not one of what people call euro-modern (actually there is nastier description) box. Chris' boat is just a small trailer-able I/O or outboard, certainly not anything fancy.

But how they missed so much, leads me to believe they weren't being handled by any PR company beyond the media relations they have claimed.

 

[Grinder]

Question for one of the insiders or holder of records.

Has the video/audio recordings of Rudy being interviewed by the Germans or the Italians (when he first returned) been made public? Did they play them in the first trial.

Did they use the Skype call in the first trial?

Now that Rudy has been in this trial and at least "testified" by having his letter read should the defense be able to counter it with the above mentioned recordings?

 

[smkovalinksy]

Appeal Court schedule.....apparently

http://twitter.com/#!/blnadeau

Does this make sense?

From Barbie Nadeau's Twitter:
tentative schedule for Amanda Knox Appeal: Sep 2011:

5/6 forensics;
7 prosecution close;
8 civil close;
9 sollecito close;
10-knox close;
26/27 rebuttal;

28-VERDICT

I guess it does. So tentatively, at least, the closing and rebuttal run from the 10th-27, with the verdict on Sep 28. Let us hope it does not get protracted!Thanks for this!

 

[komponisto]

It sounds as though Kercher's sister would feel Meredith were forgotten if Knox and Sollecito had their convictions overturned

That is not how I read the letter but rather Meredith has been forgotten amidst the media frenzy.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with smkovalinsky. The Kerchers have by now made it amply clear that they have taken a side in this fight. When they say "Meredith has been forgotten amidst the media frenzy", what they mean is "Media attention on the flaws in the case may increase the likelihood that Knox and Sollecito are let off; so please stop it!"

I understand the temptation to try to resist this unpleasant conclusion, but they have forced it upon us. Every letter, every statement, every op-ed they have released has made it yet more plain that they are not simply neutral observers awaiting the outcome of the judicial process; rather, they have made their decision, and are expecting the courts to agree.

They have allowed "justice for Meredith" -- indeed, even "remembering Meredith" -- to become code for "convicting Knox and Sollecito". More than allowed, they have encouraged it, as Stephanie Kercher's letter shows:

Tutti coloro che leggono questo scritto o che seguono questo caso, per favore ricordate la nostra bella Meredith. Il suo sangue mescolato con altre tracce sparso per il bagno, lungo il corridoio ed per la camera di Filomena, ed anche tante altre impronte insanguinate. Ricordate anche tutte le altre prove che sono state presentate ad oggi in questo processo, 10,000 pagine di prove.

All those reading this letter or following this case, please remember our beautiful Meredith. Her blood mixed with other traces throughout the bathroom, along the hallway and in Filomena's room, and also many other bloodied prints. Also remember all the other evidence that has been presented up to today in this case, 10,000 pages of evidence.

Here we clearly see "remembering Meredith" being directly equated with "believing in the rest of the prosecution's case, notwithstanding the findings of Conti and Vecchiotti regarding the knife and clasp". I find this appallingly manipulative -- so much so that I feel compelled break the taboo against criticizing the Kerchers by saying so.

Remember that Maresca represents them. Everything he says about this case -- and every shameless courtroom trick he pulls -- can be assumed to have the full endorsement of the Kercher family (unless and until explicitly disclaimed by them).

That is the sad reality. I hope it eventually changes.

 

[Dougm]

Are you sure she wore Red, White and Blue as an act of defiance? If so, how are you so sure?

In the words of Rod Stewart, she wears it well.

Although I agree that the Knox/Mellas families could have dressed a bit differently in court for the first trial (my impression is that they did not really believe that anyone could seriously convict Amanda for murder until it happened), this thing about Deanna's wardrobe on the 4th of July is rediculous. What she is wearing is a typical outfit in the US on 4th of July, and the only thing even giving any message at all is the colors. What if she had worn a similar shirt, but with a discreet American flag patch on it? Shocking!!

It's another example of the rediculous reporting and commentary on this case, a good portion of which comes from a very few sources.

 

[HumanityBlues]

Given the date of the verdict and the date of closing arguments, I'm inclined to believe Hellmann has made up his mind already.

 

[JREF2010]

Remember that Maresca represents them. Everything he says about this case -- and every shameless courtroom trick he pulls -- can be assumed to have the full endorsement of the Kercher family (unless and until explicitly disclaimed by them).

That is the sad reality. I hope it eventually changes.

I blame Maresca for not being neutral and it appears to me, he is going so low as to exploit the victims family.

....at least no Knife and Bra Clasp in any of their debates. interesting?

 

[Grinder]

komponisto,

What part of the Kercher's involvement do you blame on a system that allows the victims' attorney to take part in the courtroom? It seems to me that to some extent it appears that the system encourages the Kerchers to be active participants in the case.

I don't see the absolute distinction between Amanda's family and friends being so active in the press and on the internet proclaiming innocence and lobbying for acquittal.

The Kerchers think, from what they have seen, that Amanda and Raffaele had something to do with the murder They see the defenders of Amanda all over the media and may well think that Meredith deserves some, direct from the family, responses.

Another part of system that allows the Judges to freely expose themselves to all reporting and even discuss it, also encourages the Kerchers to rebut.

I blame the system much more than the Kerchers, but I respect your right to broach the subject.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with smkovalinsky. The Kerchers have by now made it amply clear that they have taken a side in this fight. When they say "Meredith has been forgotten amidst the media frenzy", what they mean is "Media attention on the flaws in the case may increase the likelihood that Knox and Sollecito are let off; so please stop it!"

I understand the temptation to try to resist this unpleasant conclusion, but they have forced it upon us. Every letter, every statement, every op-ed they have released has made it yet more plain that they are not simply neutral observers awaiting the outcome of the judicial process; rather, they have made their decision, and are expecting the courts to agree.

They have allowed "justice for Meredith" -- indeed, even "remembering Meredith" -- to become code for "convicting Knox and Sollecito". More than allowed, they have encouraged it, as Stephanie Kercher's letter shows:



Here we clearly see "remembering Meredith" being directly equated with "believing in the rest of the prosecution's case, notwithstanding the findings of Conti and Vecchiotti regarding the knife and clasp". I find this appallingly manipulative -- so much so that I feel compelled break the taboo against criticizing the Kerchers by saying so.

Remember that Maresca represents them. Everything he says about this case -- and every shameless courtroom trick he pulls -- can be assumed to have the full endorsement of the Kercher family (unless and until explicitly disclaimed by them).

That is the sad reality. I hope it eventually changes.

Thanks for your support, and I second all of your remarks. I think the Kerchers have understandably followed the lead of their attorney. In their minds, to overturn the convictions of Knox and Sollecito would be tantamount to "allowing the killers to walk free". Believing in their innocence, I cannot endorse this, but I understand it. It is my hope that the convictions will be overturned, and that the Kerchers will come to view them oneday as not the killers of their beloved daughter and sister.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I blame Maresca for not being neutral and it appears to me, he is going so low as to exploit the victims family.

....at least no Knife and Bra Clasp in any of their debates. interesting?

Yes, and yes, it is interesting, isn't it?

 

[smkovalinksy]

Given the date of the verdict and the date of closing arguments, I'm inclined to believe Hellmann has made up his mind already.

This is how it struck me as well....

 

[Dougm]

komponisto,

What part of the Kercher's involvement do you blame on a system that allows the victims' attorney to take part in the courtroom? It seems to me that to some extent it appears that the system encourages the Kerchers to be active participants in the case.

I don't see the absolute distinction between Amanda's family and friends being so active in the press and on the internet proclaiming innocence and lobbying for acquittal.

The Kerchers think, from what they have seen, that Amanda and Raffaele had something to do with the murder They see the defenders of Amanda all over the media and may well think that Meredith deserves some, direct from the family, responses.

Another part of system that allows the Judges to freely expose themselves to all reporting and even discuss it, also encourages the Kerchers to rebut.

I blame the system much more than the Kerchers, but I respect your right to broach the subject.

I tend to agree with what you said, Grinder. Although I wish that the Kerchers were not in a position to be arguing for the conviction of specific people, I think that the system almost requires them to participate in the prosecution's case. I am trying to think of what it would be like if Meredith was my daughter, and the police and prosecutors told me the two were guilty of the killing, and there was a role for me to be part of the trial. I would like to think I would step back and say "I'll let justice take it's course, and not be part of the arguments". However, I have a feeling that if the Kerchers had done that, the perception would have been that they disagree with prosecuting Amanda and Raff, and they also would be potentially giving up any civil judgement that would be part of this, or am I wrong about that?

Anyway, it is quite complex. I am a bit surprised that the evidence makes sense to the Kercher family, but I guess if I was being told unequivically that my daughter's blood was mixed with her roomates blood, and it must have been done at the time of the killing, I would be doing the same (of course, those facts are bogus, but that is another topic).

 

[Dougm]

Given the date of the verdict and the date of closing arguments, I'm inclined to believe Hellmann has made up his mind already.

I also thought it was curious to have one day between closing arguments and a verdict. I court cases I am used to, the deliberation time is unknown, it takes as long as it takes. If these dates are firm, it does seem Hellmann already knows how it is going to go, although to do that so blatently before closing arguments seems wrong -- and could be objected to be either side.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I also thought it was curious to have one day between closing arguments and a verdict. I court cases I am used to, the deliberation time is unknown, it takes as long as it takes. If these dates are firm, it does seem Hellmann already knows how it is going to go, although to do that so blatently before closing arguments seems wrong -- and could be objected to be either side.

Well, it is being called the tentative schedule, so it is subject to change...I just hope it does not wind up being protracted many weeks. One never knows.