Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Mary_H said:
That's hilarious, Bruce. Where was this review posted?
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Ah, TJMK. Here is the link to the review.

I've only gotten as far as "the excellent Christopher Dickey thinks quite highly of [Nadeau]." Will report back soonest.
 
Mary_H said:
Ah, TJMK. Here is the link to the review.

I've only gotten as far as "the excellent Christopher Dickey thinks quite highly of [Nadeau]." Will report back soonest.
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I haven't gotten to the section of the book where she describes Vogt and Nadeau, but obviously whatever she wrote must have hit a little close to home. It does sound like the so offended journalists gave talking points regarding their "distinguished" careers to this weird woman. I have no proof of that, but it sure reads that way to me.
 
Because it is bitter, and because it is my heart...

HumanityBlues said:
I haven't gotten to the section of the book where she describes Vogt and Nadeau, but obviously whatever she wrote must have hit a little close to home. It does sound like the so offended journalists gave talking points regarding their "distinguished" careers to this weird woman. I have no proof of that, but it sure reads that way to me.
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Close to home, you say? All I kept thinking as I read the review was that Peg must have been looking in the mirror as she wrote it. All those complaints about Burleigh being superficial? Need we revisit the pages and pages on PMF about whether or not Candace Dempsey had a facelift? What about PMF's embrace of Nadeau's expose' about the clothes Amanda's sisters wore in Italy?

And Peg calls out Nina for referring to Amanda's family as “a hair on the low side of middle class?" Wow, just wow. All of the following quotes were approved by Peg for PMF:

"Meanwhile, US media agencies, with or without the help of the Mellox Trailer Trash Cult are queuing up to do the same , in slightly more moderate language or not...but the theme is the same."

"Amanda Chris Mella’s has been sent into exile to prevent the baseball capped moonfaced buffoon from making the family look more like trailer trash parents on the Maury Povich show rather than that of a university honour student."

"White trash. Period. I'll be relieved when this appeal is over and the world, especially the Kercher family, will not be subjected to the torrent of false reporting and money grubbing by people without souls."

"And why you not find-uh a nice Italiano girly instead of this Americano enlightened free-spirit trash?"

"I hate to say it but AK's parents are the opitimy of "white trash" in the USA. They dress like it, have their opnions and are closed minded."

"Understand it now. White Trash."

"The Knox girls can then stick their tits out for 'that' shot, instead of where they absolutely don't belong. You are spot on. Trailer trash. I take it Wal-Mart fashion isn't rampant in Italy."
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Charlie Wilkes said:
I guess I missed that. What's the story?
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CD Host, who became interested in the case around the turn of the year, and was a member here, was 'outed' on PMF. He's a computer consultant and runs a blog mainly as kind of an online cult de-programmer, and was real interested in PMF which didn't like him sniffing around I guess. Originally he came to their attention mostly because he ran into Harry Rag (there's a thread on IIP entitled a lesson for Harry) and in trying to make the point that fighting for a living person made more sense than a dead one, he used an unfortunate term, 'wormfood' as I recall. You probably guess the context in which it was used, and the anger it generated down the Rabbit Hole.

Well, they found his name, his business, they posted financial information, court records--basically anything they could find. Apparently his cellphone and work number were available, and might have caused some trouble for him. Also he has at least one kid ~12 who somehow got involved. You can get a quick overview by following this or going to his site and asking him. He's not posted on the case in a while.
 
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Mary_H said:
Close to home, you say? All I kept thinking as I read the review was that Peg must have been looking in the mirror as she wrote it. All those complaints about Burleigh being superficial? Need we revisit the pages and pages on PMF about whether or not Candace Dempsey had a facelift? What about PMF's embrace of Nadeau's expose' about the clothes Amanda's sisters wore in Italy?

And Peg calls out Nina for referring to Amanda's family as “a hair on the low side of middle class?" Wow, just wow. All of the following quotes were approved by Peg for PMF:
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Barbie Nadeau is beyond criticsm. She covered the garbage crisis. Case closed.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
Peggy Ganong included an outright lie in her book review when she said this about Deanna Knox: "her sister Deanna’s choice of courtroom attire on July 4 (red-white-and-blue short shorts and midriff exposing top)"

Here is what Deanna actually wore. Peggy has a photo on her own website titled "4th of July attire" !!

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=34&image_id=2843

If you prefer not to visit PMF:

http://i.imgur.com/D33oR.jpg
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That's such a lie, and clearly a smear against a dedicated activist. There is no midriff. (that's belly, right?) All she was doing was saying, with colors, "hey, Italians! I'm American and proud. Your little anti-American witch hunt against my sister, whose only crime was being American, ain't gonna work. We'll bomb your Nazi butts just like we did in World War 1!"
 
Caustic Logic said:
That's such a lie, and clearly a smear against a dedicated activist. There is no midriff. (that's belly, right?) All she was doing was saying, with colors, "hey, Italians! I'm American and proud. Your little anti-American witch hunt against my sister, whose only crime was being American, ain't gonna work. We'll bomb your Nazi butts just like we did in World War 1!"
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Can any of our historians here comment on the correctness of using the term Nazis to describe Fascisti?
 
Mary_H said:
I know none of this happened, but it's actually more believable if Rudy went in the house with Meredith than if he went in through the bedroom window, and you're saying Rudy wants to be believable. So walking in the house with Meredith would explain it. When I say he may have broken the window before he went in, I mean before Meredith got home.
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This is where the "Guilty Rudy" has to depart from reality. A detailed story about how he tossed a large rock through the window to enter the cottage, snooped around in the girls rooms looking for their rent monies, raiding the fridge and finally sitting on the toilet listening to his iPod until he hears Meredith enter would be equally if not more believable. But the courts would then not waist any time finding him guilty of the subsequent murder.
 
What a weird environment they have created at PMF where you have some people demanding you answer their questions but then when you do answer they just get erased.

My best post there about the Micheli trial transcripts got erased and I was honestly curious if any of them had actually seen what exactly Mignini had said about satanism in court.

It seems like what Migini said in court was so dumb Micheli scoffed at it and now Mignini likes to pretend he never said it, but Nadeau, Follain, Mansey, Kercher and Micheli all have reported Mignini making some weird statements about satanic ( or ritual, or occult) motives in the case while PMF angrily states the satanism story is just Preston/Marriot PR to discredit Mignini. Seems like it might be an easy issue to resolve with a transcript. So does anybody have (or know to get) a copy of the Micheli trial transcript on the days where Mignini talked about satanism, vampires, manga and Halloween? I think October 18 2008 might be the one of the date to look into.
 
Caustic Logic said:
That's such a lie, and clearly a smear against a dedicated activist. There is no midriff. (that's belly, right?) All she was doing was saying, with colors, "hey, Italians! I'm American and proud. Your little anti-American witch hunt against my sister, whose only crime was being American, ain't gonna work. We'll bomb your Nazi butts just like we did in World War 1!"
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LOL!

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

:p

Actually I don't think 'anti-Americanism' played much of a role, at least regarding the arrest, and that's where it really started. She could have been from Ontario, Australia or Ireland and the same thing happened.

However when trying to explain what transpired from there, it's very difficult to do without mentioning some of the absurdities of the Italian legal system which allowed it to happen, especially their curious insistence that the prosecutor is some sort of incorruptible avatar of justice pure.

Of course, this isn't exactly a secret to the Italians, however there's a natural reaction for most people whenever they are criticized to retort 'you suck too!!!' So there was some of that going on, and still is but I don't think it necessarily contributed much to the conviction, it just got a some play in the press due to all the criticism. Unfortunately in this case it was well deserved criticism. However, the Italian system does have some virtues, one that it is a very open process, another that it allows for a full trial de novo automatically and the accused are considered innocent all through this process, which includes a final automatic appeal to the Supreme Court.
 
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curi0us said:
What a weird environment they have created at PMF where you have some people demanding you answer their questions but then when you do answer they just get erased.

My best post there about the Micheli trial transcripts got erased and I was honestly curious if any of them had actually seen what exactly Mignini had said about satanism in court.

It seems like what Migini said in court was so dumb Micheli scoffed at it and now Mignini likes to pretend he never said it, but Nadeau, Follain, Mansey, Kercher and Micheli all have reported Mignini making some weird statements about satanic ( or ritual, or occult) motives in the case while PMF angrily states the satanism story is just Preston/Marriot PR to discredit Mignini. Seems like it might be an easy issue to resolve with a transcript. So does anybody have (or know to get) a copy of the Micheli trial transcript on the days where Mignini talked about satanism, vampires, manga and Halloween? I think October 18 2008 might be the one of the date to look into.
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The AP picked it up and it was spread far and wide, but I don't know if anyone ever really got a quote from straight from the horse's mouth. This Follain article was in the London Times: Amanda Knox ‘stabbed Meredith Kercher to death in satanic ritual,’ but you'll note it quotes Maori, not Mignini.

As you noted, Micheli scoffed at it in Guede's motivations, but even he didn't call it "satanic," it was more something like "rituals related to Halloween."*

Maori and Micheli must have gotten their information from somewhere, though.

*ETA:

TRIBUNALE DI PERUGIA
UFFICIO DEL G.I.P.
Dott. Paolo Micheli
Sentenza del 28.10.2008 – 26.01.2009
MOTIVI DELLA DECISIONE

"...K. che, pur escludendo qualunque significato della deduzione in punto di peculiare preparazione del delitto o addirittura di ipotetiche aggravanti (un po’ lumeggiate dal P.M., pur non contestandole, nella a dir poco fantasiosa ricostruzione descrittiva di riti, festini di Halloween, pubblicazioni manga ed occasioni da non lasciarsi sfuggire,..."

(Crazy translation:) "...K. that, while excluding any meaning of the point deduction in special preparation of the crime or even hypothetical aggravating (a little 'lighted up by the PM, while not questioning, to say the least imaginative reconstruction of the descriptive rituals, festivities of Halloween, manga publications and opportunities not to be missed,..."
 
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Mary_H said:
Can any of our historians here comment on the correctness of using the term Nazis to describe Fascisti?
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Perhaps there was another interpretation, as it also referred to World War One. If you remember "A Farewell to Arms" the Italians were with the Good Guys in that one. Fighting (mainly) the army that was 'created to give Napoleon victories, any Napoleon.' Funny how he said that, what with Caporetto so near... :p
 
Mary_H said:
The AP picked it up and it was spread far and wide, but I don't know if anyone ever really got a quote from straight from the horse's mouth. This Follain article was in the London Times: Amanda Knox ‘stabbed Meredith Kercher to death in satanic ritual,’ but you'll note it quotes Maori, not Mignini.

As you noted, Micheli scoffed at it in Guede's motivations, but even he didn't call it "satanic," it was more something like "rituals related to Halloween."*

Maori and Micheli must have gotten their information from somewhere, though.

*ETA:

TRIBUNALE DI PERUGIA
UFFICIO DEL G.I.P.
Dott. Paolo Micheli
Sentenza del 28.10.2008 – 26.01.2009
MOTIVI DELLA DECISIONE

"...K. che, pur escludendo qualunque significato della deduzione in punto di peculiare preparazione del delitto o addirittura di ipotetiche aggravanti (un po’ lumeggiate dal P.M., pur non contestandole, nella a dir poco fantasiosa ricostruzione descrittiva di riti, festini di Halloween, pubblicazioni manga ed occasioni da non lasciarsi sfuggire,..."

(Crazy translation:) "...K. that, while excluding any meaning of the point deduction in special preparation of the crime or even hypothetical aggravating (a little 'lighted up by the PM, while not questioning, to say the least imaginative reconstruction of the descriptive rituals, festivities of Halloween, manga publications and opportunities not to be missed,..."
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Thank you very much for that Mary. I still want to go another layer deeper to what Mignini actually said but that is still very helpful. Rituals involving festivities of Halloween and killing someone with a knife while others hold them pretty much can be fairly described as Satanic whether Mignini used that exact word anyways. I think the main thing is that Mignini may be so nuts he used a mainstream Japanese comic book as evidence of Satan worship:

Mignini also contends that Knox’s one-time boyfriend, Rafaelle Sollecito, instigated the orgy, and has suggested that he was inspired by the Halloween-themed Japanese Manga comics found in Sollecito’s bedroom, which have been described as a cross between Satan worship and pornography.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/03/13/behind-the-co-ed-murder-scandal.html

Doesn't that read like mere possession of the comic would be indication of "Satan worship" according to Mignini? And it's also clearly used as motive/inspiration.

Also, for the anime graphic novel RS had it is part of a series that includes two big budget movies, three video games, and three young adult books. Pretty mainstream it seems, though I guess there some that think Harry Potter is satanic too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood:_The_Last_Vampire#cite_note-Animerica-1
 
Mary_H said:
I'm sorry, smkovalinsky, I simply cannot sit here and let someone call MissRepresented a brilliant writer twice on one page. :p

The first time I read her garbage I did not know whether to laugh or cry. It was as painful as reading TJMK -- in fact, there have been times when I thought Quennell was responsible for writing both blogs. I read MR only a couple more times before swearing off for good. The last thing this discussion has ever needed is yet another high school-level faux-Freudian analysis of Amanda competing with her mother for her stepfather's love. Good lord.

I agree with Malkmus -- Nutty McNutterson took her blog down out of embarrassment. I now concede she can't be a Quennell alter ego -- he is not nearly so thin-skinned. I still don't know what her credentials are, if any, but, as we have seen over and over, a lot of people with advanced degrees are fools. I don't take issue with her diplomas -- what she should be embarrassed about is the fact that she was wrong about 10,000 times more often than she was right.

Even more at issue for me is the fact that in the process of being a rank amateur at psychology, MR completely and totally invaded Amanda's family's privacy to an unholy degree -- in other words, she put herself in a place where she did not belong. That she has closed her blog down out of fear for an invasion of her own privacy is ironic, if not poetic justice.
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Well said. :D I suppose my years of reading Jung and Freud made me vulnerable to the prose. ;) I did come to view her theories as nothing more but obnoxious speculation about strangers, in order to receive public attention....which she has gotten.:jaw-dropp
 
Kaosium said:
I came across this blog at some time while I was looking into it before I posted, and I didn't pay it much mind. She was no longer posting on the case and I just figured her information was out of date, and just snickered at the idea that she bought into the whole 'PR Campaign' conspiracy, and based her 'analysis' on an obvious tabloid-initiated smear. It's even funnier now that I find out she works in media analysis. I actually thought she had some nice insights on some subjects, notably whether Rudy Guede could have been affected by PTSD, but just rolled my eyes at a lot of it, much like I did the other 'psychologists' who got caught up in the defamation firestorm, plus there was reason enough to suspect she might just be a poseur, the post on 'Eyes for Lies' was something of a hint. I certainly understand why that pisses Spartacus and others off.

I didn't get a chance to finish what I was doing as the blog was taken down, thus this must be based on incomplete information, and perhaps there's a facet here that I entirely missed, but I kinda got the impression she was getting hustled, mainly by Fast_Pete and The Machine. For one thing it appeared to me almost all of the information she was relying on came from TJMK, as did her 'theories' of the media campaign. From her first post, cunningly entitled 'True Justice For Meredith Kercher:'



It looks to me like she got taken in by a kooky website, bought into the fantasy body and soul, and then being a psychology student called herself a 'psychologist' and then The Machine and Fast Pete took advantage of that. It wasn't her as much promoting herself as one, rather not correcting other's mistakes--she might have been flattered they made it, she's just a girl, who was blogging on a case, she walked away from it almost two years ago. However...

Interesting thing I found: Her blog was originally on Wordpress and is still there, in this incarnation there's nothing about her being a psychologist unless I missed it. Then she upgrades to 'filter out' trolls after receiving several private 'complaints' about a perfectly nice poster name 'shust' who is getting piled on something fierce and she has 450 comments in two weeks. Interestingly enough, Fast Pete remembers this upgrade well, two years(post of Thu May 12, 2011 7:40 pm) and then she gets the new blog which was since taken down and where the idea developed that she was a psychologist and Fast Pete apparently started noting her number of hits, noting what fun she was to chat with by e-mail....

Interestingly enough, her last on TJMK includes this little tidbit:




I wonder considering the abrupt departure, after noting she was a 'companion' website and had been 'established' as an 'authority' that wasn't entirely her own doing, whether all the 'oddballs' were necessarily those who disagreed with her on the case...
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Thanks for all this information. You are right; the original blog does indeed stand on Wordpress. :jaw-dropp I think your conjectures about TJMK and Pete et al are completely correct. I had sensed something of the kind afoot, myself, and this just confirms it....Nothing is ever straightforward or what it seems in these matters...thanks very much for the excellent post.:)
 
halides1 said:
Maundy wrote, "Most significantly, lead prosecutor Manuela Comodi was able to get Carla Vecchiotti to agree that the amount of time that had passed between the testing of the knife and clasp samples and any prior testing related to the Kercher case had been sufficient so that it was unrealistic that any potentially contaminating DNA might have still been present in the lab."

Did Dr. Vecchiotti agree that the time was too long? Is it certain that there was such a gap at all? The persistence of DNA in a laboratory has not been measured, to the best of my knowledge. However, we know it can persist for years, depending on environmental conditions.
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Here is an article dated today which gives an account of the exchange between Comodi and Vecchiotti (in quotes - a transcript would be helpful to determine if more was said) and it appears Vecchiotti agrees that a 12 day gap between testing is sufficient.

http://www.agi.it/perugia/notizie/2...alle_battute_finali_lunedi_si_torna_in_aula_2

From looking at the SAL work reports and other documents it appears there was a 12 day gap of testing of items until the bra clasp was tested but I am no expert and my limited understanding of the reports could be wrong.
 
christianahannah said:
An article containing a letter written by Stephy Kercher (Meredith's sister):

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronac...bbiamo-ancora-fiducia-nelle-istituzioni.shtml

And the parade of testimony from prisoners may not have ended:

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2011/09/03/574211-anche_boss.shtml
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Interesting pieces. Wish I did not have to use Google translate, which muddies things. It sounds as though Kercher's sister would feel Meredith were forgotten if Knox and Sollecito had their convictions overturned (from what I could glean from the awkward translation)---I have complete sympathy for her grieving her beloved sister, but if the 2 are innocent, it does not detract from the horrendous tragic loss at all.

I had a difficult time grasping the gist of the second article. Are they in court already, rather than waiting for Monday? Or is that a pic of Aug court date, probably... And who is the cat lady who saw Raffaele?:confused:
 
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