Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Patrick1000]

OK nonfriend, why not take a shot at my post at #1178

I am not your friend; kindly keep your juvenile patronising to yourself. If you want people to believe you are a graduate in your fifties, do try to use age-appropriate language and sentence structure.

Your claim is that the radio transmissions were faked, it is up to you to support that claim.

OK nofriend, let's see you put your analytic and math skills where your mouth is. Let's see you debunk my claims at #1178. Analysis of the claims made on each side Reed vs the Mission Report by way of your own number curnching. Have at it hot shot. No arm waving please. Everyone is anxious to see what you have got. You may begin. You may take as much time as you like.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If the signals bounced off the Ionosphere how come they were only detected in the exact direction of the moon from wherever anyone tried to detect them?

you do know the moon moves across they sky and theose listening ahd to train their dishes to keep on the signal?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Why didn't the crews just say they could see the lasers?

If the Lasers were put into the mission by those that faked it all wouldn't they have already worked out how to fake the detection?

You ar eproposing a conspiracy that has fooled all of the worlds scientists and engineers for over 40 years including all tohse that worked for the contractors that designed and built all the equipment.

Why would they not be able to get the Astronauts to say they saw the lasers then add the little dots to the pictures?

If they had done that don't you think the contractors and engineers that built the TV camera and produced the film for the stills and movie cameras etc would have pointed out that a laser wouldn't show up on equipment set to expose detail on the surface?

So, even if they had added the lasers in the conspiracy would be blown.

 

[Patrick1000]

Good question Captain_Swoop!

If the signals bounced off the Ionosphere how come they were only detected in the exact direction of the moon from wherever anyone tried to detect them?

you do know the moon moves across they sky and theose listening ahd to train their dishes to keep on the signal?

Now that we have confirmed the telemetry is bogus, remember how I just demonstrated how the Voice Transcript record supports Reed's claims and not the Mission Report document. And why shouldn't we prefer Reed to the Mission Report, I mean he is the LAUNCH SPECIALIST FLIGHT DYNAMICS OFFICER AND WAS ONLY HAND PICKED FOR THE JOB THAT MORNING(07/21/1969) AFTERALL, we do have a problem with that telemetry now don't we? Maybe Agatha there with his super acute brain will rescue the telemetry and the astronauts from the bogus script, but it is not looking so good for the boys now is it? So Captain_Swoop, if H. David Reed and the FIDO boys on before him were being fed telemetric space jive, where was it coming from? Certainly wasn't coming from the LM's transmission. That said, according to the mission report, the Eagle was within .64 miles per the flight processor of Tranquility Base. Oh my! What a terrible mess this has become, almost like Alice in Wonderland in Space, sans the excellent writing ande themes. How 'bout you Captain_Swoop, care to help your colleague Agatha save face there. He talked a big game didn't he? Oh well.

 

[Agatha]

I did make a suggestion previously that the radio transmissions may have bounced off the ironosphere.

It did get a rather gratifying response, as I recall.

Ironosphere - The great field of sarcastic irony that surrounds the earth beyond the ionosphere. Thought to be responsible for most of the world's irony. (pseudodictionary)

 

[Agatha]

OK nofriend, let's see you put your analytic and math skills where your mouth is. Let's see you debunk my claims at #1178. Analysis of the claims made on each side Reed vs the Mission Report by way of your own number curnching. Have at it hot shot. No arm waving please. Everyone is anxious to see what you have got. You may begin. You may take as much time as you like.

Shifting the burden of proof once again.

 

[little grey rabbit]

If the signals bounced off the Ionosphere how come they were only detected in the exact direction of the moon from wherever anyone tried to detect them?

you do know the moon moves across they sky and theose listening ahd to train their dishes to keep on the signal?

No I don't know that. Actually my suggestion was a joke.

Supposing what you say is true, one could hypothesis a transmitting satellite around the earth following the moon's path. I don't really think that happened however.

 

[Patrick1000]

They did, but once only, to con you dude!

Why didn't the crews just say they could see the lasers?

If the Lasers were put into the mission by those that faked it all wouldn't they have already worked out how to fake the detection?

You ar eproposing a conspiracy that has fooled all of the worlds scientists and engineers for over 40 years including all tohse that worked for the contractors that designed and built all the equipment.

Why would they not be able to get the Astronauts to say they saw the lasers then add the little dots to the pictures?

If they had done that don't you think the contractors and engineers that built the TV camera and produced the film for the stills and movie cameras etc would have pointed out that a laser wouldn't show up on equipment set to expose detail on the surface?

So, even if they had added the lasers in the conspiracy would be blown.

The point Captain_Swoop, if I may be so bold is, if you admit to seeing the laser, say from the argon beam coming out of McDonald Observatory, then the person directing that laser OR ANY OTHER LASER SUCCESSFULLY TARGETING YOU, knows EXACTLY where you are by doing a few more "sightings". So when you admit to seeing lasers, you admit to being located, in that moment at that time in that exact place. now if you ain't where you say you are, that can be a problem.

Say a hand waver that knows nothing, someone like me, shines the argon at Armstrong and says, "see it!". He says, "yes". then I turn around and say, "fooled you,

I was pointing it at my mom's, not your space ship". Busted!

Every move one makes with lasers in play is potentially disaterous. You can be targeted by ANYONE and challenged in a sense by being forced to take, or not take a picture of that laser.

So they deny deny deny deny stars and lasers, best not to go here.

Get it? Feel Apollo's roof caving in? The Saturn 5's Rocket has got a paper tiger's orange tail.

This story ONLY makes sense in the context in which I have presented it and it is driving members of this forum nuts facing the fact that this hand waver has come up with something so very significant. I am rather surprised myself to be honest. that said, I take full credit. It is all mine.

 

[Patrick1000]

Nothing of the sort

Shifting the burden of proof once again.

I made my claim, there is my proof. Show me how I am, where I am wrong. Unless you can, the proof is complete. not a one of your colleagues has even tried their hand at it let alone shown my numbers to be wrong.

The telemetry is bogus. I proved it. And quite frankly, I am beginning to realize, you do not even have the basic skills to understand my argument let alone argue against it. So enough with your vacuous declarative statements. I will no longer respond to these. If you care to study up and make an authentic challenge, i welcome your effort.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Ironosphere - The great field of sarcastic irony that surrounds the earth beyond the ionosphere. Thought to be responsible for most of the world's irony. (pseudodictionary)

Something like this could really scratch the paintwork on the Apollo but

 

[Patrick1000]

Am I crazy or what?

Shifting the burden of proof once again.

Enough, I think all have become aware of your lack of analytic skills. My claims at post #1178 stand at least as far as my interaction with Agatha here. He has shown no sense of the claims made there, let alone evidenced any type of ability to mount a response in countering those claims.

 

[drewid]

Take a look at my post #1178 where I prove the telemetry that H. David Reed and the other fight officers were fed" was FAKE. Show me where my logic, my reasoning ,my facts break down. If you cannot, I shall continue to call the signals, ALL OF THEM picked up by the amateurs FAKE, as the telemetry with reference to the landing site coordinates certainly were. and that my friend is not hand waving. shall we take a look at you numbers. Mine are there in post #1178. I would like to see your math.

Your post shows no proof of foreknowledge. Please state in no more than three sentences where it does. Consider it a challenge, and one I doubt you are up to.

 

[dafydd]

OK nofriend, let's see you put your analytic and math skills where your mouth is. Let's see you debunk my claims at #1178. Analysis of the claims made on each side Reed vs the Mission Report by way of your own number curnching. Have at it hot shot. No arm waving please. Everyone is anxious to see what you have got. You may begin. You may take as much time as you like.

Nobody is anxious,where did you get that from? We all know that all you post is self-congratulatory crap.

 

[drewid]

I made my claim, there is my proof. Show me how I am, where I am wrong. Unless you can, the proof is complete. not a one of your colleagues has even tried their hand at it let alone shown my numbers to be wrong.

The telemetry is bogus. I proved it. And quite frankly, I am beginning to realize, you do not even have the basic skills to understand my argument let alone argue against it. So enough with your vacuous declarative statements. I will no longer respond to these. If you care to study up and make an authentic challenge, i welcome your effort.

It's because you are actually unable to properly articulate your argument.

 

[dafydd]

Enough, I think all have become aware of your lack of analytic skills. My claims at post #1178 stand at least as far as my interaction with Agatha here. He has shown no sense of the claims made there, let alone evidenced any type of ability to mount a response in countering those claims.

What does feel it like to be a genius?

 

[dafydd]

It's because you are actually unable to properly articulate your argument.

It seems to be a very amorphous argument. Every time he posts it changes.

 

[Patrick1000]

It's simple

It's because you are actually unable to properly articulate your argument.

Reed said that when he came on duty (07/21/1969 am) there were no coordinate solutions for Tranquility Base within 4.5 miles of 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east(Tranquility Base's then acknowledged accurate coordinates). The Mission report published after the astronauts returned contradicted Reed and showed the PNGS, AGS and flight oprocessor to all have provided good solutions, IN REAL TIME, the later solution only .64 miles from 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. So Reed is psychotic or the Mission Report is fraudulent. Both cannot be true.

I prefer the latter explanation. Reed appears credible, AND AS I DEMONSTRATED, HIS STORY ABOUT THEIR TURNING THE RENDEZVOUS RADAR ON ONE REV EARLY TO FIND A SOLUTION IS COROBORATED BY THE VOICE TRANSCRIPT. So it turns out Reed's story is to be preferred and the Mission Report document, featuring those coordinates as described, telemetry data, is a bogus report, and along with that, one may say they telemetry is bogus as well.

Case closed unless someone here can prove me wrong. And so far, no one has even tried, let alone come up with a meaningful counter.

 

[Patrick1000]

See my post just above, it is simple

It seems to be a very amorphous argument. Every time he posts it changes.

Not amorphous, very simple. See my previous post, have a shot at debunking that.

 

[frenat]

I need not prove it. The astronauts THEMSELVES claimed to have seen a laser, and photographed it. Both Armstrong AND Aldrin saw it. So there you have your proof frenat.

Frenat,

Every time the astronauts were asked to confirm visually, with or without optics, that a laser was targeting their craft, they denied it.

You don't know what the word proof means do you?

 

[Oji]

Frenat,

Every time the astronauts were asked to confirm visually, with or without optics, that a laser was targeting their craft, they denied it.

Maybe that is because they couldn't see it. Which would seem to fit the facts better.