Merged Libya: People's Revolution / Criminal Imperialism?

[Darat]

The air strikes by the NATO bloc, who've long wanted Gaddafi and his economic system OUT of Libya, to you, thickly veils the NATO bloc's takeover intentions?

I'm confused. I thought it was the armed insurgents and their scorched-earth terror tactics, attached to a body of pro-west privatization-obsessed schemers, posing as "the people of Libya," that constituted the veil?

Yet these same folk worked hard to show that he was rehabilitated, for example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3566545.stm

...snip....

Blair hails new Libyan relations

...snip...

Tony Blair says Libya's Muammar Gaddafi is willing to join Britain in the fight against terrorism.

After shaking hands with Colonel Gaddafi at the start of the historic talks, the prime minister said there was real hope for a "new relationship".

People should not forget the past, they should move beyond it, Mr Blair said.

Thursday's Tripoli meeting follows Libya's renunciation of weapons of mass destruction in December. Mr Blair said such changes were "extraordinary".

After the talks took place Mr Blair headed to an EU summit in Brussels set to be dominated by the issue of security in the wake of the Madrid terror attack.


...snip...

 

[Arcade22]

It looks exactly like a Western (+some Arab), coalition, gang-rape of a nation, despite the humanitarian veil.

Wow, let's not spare any hyperbole!

What pokes through is the usual mechanics of such a thing: as you point out, a huge number of bombs dropped, infrastructure destroyed

If that's what you call command and control capabilities then fine.

sanctions and embargoes imposed, stealing their money outright if possible

Care to show how NATO or whoever you're aiming for has 'stolen' any money from Libya? I'm sure you can't but it's going to be fun see you lie or make stuff up!

A little helpful note: Freezing assets is not stealing.

arming the insurgents, recognizing insurgents as the government, relentless demonization of the enemy, etc.

Yes, Qaddafi was an inept and insane ruler who barely anyone likes and 'we' decided to support the closest we're going to get to sensible, liberal and democratic government. A government with much more support than Qaddafi.

Do you have a problem with that? If so: why do you support an insane dictator?

What's really really thin here is the initial cover of preventing a semntics-based, misread threat of a holocaust in Benghazi, of removing a leader who massacred his own people in the low hundreds for merely surging police stations and army bases to steal their starter weapons. To save the children from snipers, the women and everyone really from the mass-raping African mercenaries. Or maybe we had to stop the relentless bombing of Tripoli by which, al Jazeera broadcast, "within the next few hours, the entire Libyan population can be wiped out if this continues! ... Why is the world silent on these atrocities? Why? This is the question."

*Snort*

One or another of those complete lies, or some combination, surely must make this thing all right, we reasoned.

Who is this 'we' again? Oh right, i forgot that everyone in the media and government think alike.

Oh yeah, sure, maybe no al Qaeda or 9/11 link, maybe no WMDs, maybe etc. but he's a bad guy and we freed his people from the domination of the state run central bank and oil companies that ensured all Libyans were taken care of but locked out foreign corporate control...

No we helped them free themselves from an insane dictator who brutalized his people. How horrible indeed.

Make more sense now?

Only slightly.

 

[Arcade22]

Yet these same folk worked hard to show that he was rehabilitated

Here's a video showing the 'new, open and liberal Libya' that Qaddafi made:

http://www.vbs.tv/en-se/newsroom/libya--5

 

[Darat]

Here's a video showing the 'new, open and liberal Libya' that Qaddafi made:

http://www.vbs.tv/en-se/newsroom/libya--5

Don't get me wrong I'm not claiming that he was "reformed" only that the very same folks that Caustic Logic claims "... long wanted Gaddafi and his economic system OUT of Libya..." have been very happy over the last 7 years to work with him and therefore albeit indirectly helped keep him in power, even at the cost of political capital for themselves.

 

[Caustic Logic]

every one of them.

and the nazi abuses as well.

Drive-by duh-bunking genius is awesome

You verified all the claims made? There are hundreds, most of them caroonish. Can you perchance share your findings on protesters massacred as they simply protested? With so many iPhones around, there should be plenty video of this around.

But there's not! (unless you can show me wrong). This part - the actual shooting of the thousands of civilians, we were told - is almost never filmed. There are only two I'm aware of, and preparing to consider here, along with a third, all from the same peculiar city. Otherwise, all I've seen is people shot after, with someone's word on what they were doing when shot.

The Libyan government said the "protester deaths" were more like 159 in these first days, and all, or mostly, from attacking bases to steal weapons. Guards would shoot at that anywhere. The "protesters" did in short order wind up with many powerful weapons, one base's helping score the next's. They wound up with very few defectors showing up, but many soldiers slaughtered and passed off as killed by the regime for "refusing to shoot protesters."

Protesting or waging jihad to steal weapons at the time of death - It's a huge farking distinction, worth some consideration, don't you think?

There's one good video you might try - the Telegraph ran it, shows some protesters shortly after being shot, if not being shot. Feb 19. You should present me with that and demand an explanation.

Or next step for the duh-bunker - dismiss all this with "only a Gaddafi supporting twoofer no-planer would take so much time to blah blah"

 

[Caustic Logic]

Yet these same folk worked hard to show that he was rehabilitated, for example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3566545.stm

Yeah, for a while. They did a hella lot to earn it. This brief rapprochement fell between being framed for Lockerbie and sanctioned, suffering a CIA-MI6-al Qaeda overhtrow effort (much like this one in ways) in '96, and on the other side, this.

Some tongue-biting and hand-kissing after the billions we cost them and the exceptionally good example they tried to set, seemed fair enough for a while.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Care to show how NATO or whoever you're aiming for has 'stolen' any money from Libya? I'm sure you can't but it's going to be fun see you lie or make stuff up!

A little helpful note: Freezing assets is not stealing.

Well ya cut me off at the knee there. The rebels get it right back, after all.

If you hold someone's phone out of reach while you suffocate them, to keep them from calling 9-11, but put it back on their chest after they're dead, it's not stealing. In that case you'd keep the phone.

That money was posed first as Muammar Gaddafi''s personal assets, stolen from Libya's people, and used to hire mercenaries and such. In reality, it was the Libyan government's money it used for everything - buying supplies, paying salaries, etc. The many nations that stole this money couldn't take it all - just what was left in their grasp. Collectively it was, I'm not sure, but at least $60,000,000,000, probably more like 100,000,000,000. For a nation of six million, that's at least $10,000 for each man woman and child. Literally it was for them, but they don't get it back until the new management takes over, the Western powers dong the "freezing" decided.

The rest of your drivel, come back with more respect and maybe I'll respond.

 

[Alt+F4]

That money was posed first as Muammar Gaddafi''s personal assets, stolen from Libya's people, and used to hire mercenaries and such. In reality, it was the Libyan government's money it used for everything - buying supplies, paying salaries, etc. The many nations that stole this money couldn't take it all - just what was left in their grasp. Collectively it was, I'm not sure, but at least $60,000,000,000, probably more like 100,000,000,000. For a nation of six million, that's at least $10,000 for each man woman and child. Literally it was for them, but they don't get it back until the new management takes over, the Western powers dong the "freezing" decided.

The money is starting to be unfrozen.

The United States is working with the United Nations to release from $1 to $1.5 billion in U.S.-held frozen Libyan assets, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said at a briefing in Washington DC on Tuesday.

and....

Once the UN gives its approval, European Union member countries were also preparing to unfreeze Libyan assets...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/bab...gn=Feed:+BabylonBeyond+(Babylon+&+Beyond+Blog)

 

[leftysergeant]

There shouild be no occupation. There is no way it could be justified to the people of any of the NATO allies. The people already has a framework in place to form their own government without outside assistance. There is not even any need to bring in foreign personnel or capital to get the oil flowing again.

Come back and rant when somebody actually does something stupid.

I was, myself, sort of comfortable with Qadafi until I learned about the mercenary forces. That alone should be gounds to hang the kelb ibn kelb.

 

[theprestige]

I think this is the first Conspiracy Theory I've ever seen with neither theory nor conspiracy.

 

[BStrong]

No argument.

Western troops are on the ground in Libya, limited numbers, limited role.

Safe bet would be British SAS.

I wouldn't trust DEBKA or infowars for the time of day.

 

[trustbutverify]

There shouild be no occupation. There is no way it could be justified to the people of any of the NATO allies. The people already has a framework in place to form their own government without outside assistance. There is not even any need to bring in foreign personnel or capital to get the oil flowing again.

Come back and rant when somebody actually does something stupid.

I was, myself, sort of comfortable with Qadafi until I learned about the mercenary forces. That alone should be gounds to hang the kelb ibn kelb.

The using rape as a weapon thing was upsetting.

 

[Alt+F4]

This is from Infowars, but they're citing DEBKA and other sources. Der Spiegel also just reported on German special forces for a fact fighting in Libya now. (2nd party link again)

No evidence of this at any of your crappy links. If Der Spiegel were reporting this why not a link to the story at Der Spiegel? Oh that's right there isn't one. But according the actual Der Spiegel site:

Germany's government acknowledged that 11 German soldiers currently stationed at NATO facilities in Italy are performing duties including ones "in the area of so-called target selection" for NATO airstrikes.

Oh noes! Eleven German soldiers in Italy!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,781197,00.html

 

[theprestige]

No evidence of this at any of your crappy links. If Der Spiegel were reporting this why not a link to the story at Der Spiegel? Oh that's right there isn't one. But according the actual Der Spiegel site:



Oh noes! Eleven German soldiers in Italy!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,781197,00.html

To be fair, I interpret the Der Spiegel story to mean that 11 German Special forces soldiers have been deployed from Italy to Libya, to identify and indicate targets for NATO airstrikes.

So again I ask Caustic Logic: Who's doing the takeover? NATO Pilot Jean-Pierre? Or NATO Commando Gustav?












Actually, my money's on NATO Commando Gustav. He's the "boots on the ground" after all. Any day now he'll show up in Tripoli, wave his laser pointer in the air like he just doesn't care, point at the crowd like he's headlining a Scorpions reunion concert, and say in his best Hans und Franz voice, "Colonel Kaddafi... weah heah to pump >clap< YOU up!"

 

[Virus]

This is from Infowars, but they're citing DEBKA and other sources. Der Spiegel also just reported on German special forces for a fact fighting in Libya now. (2nd party link again)

Infowars? They believe in space lizards.

 

[Skeptic]

...who are in cahoots with the Jews...

 

[Virus]

Personally, I hope they open up the economy from the Stalinist model that Gaddafi imposed on them. Libya could do a booming trade in tourism if it becomes stable. Nice Roman ruins. Colonial Italian architecture. Ancient Berber houses. Some nice places to set up some cafes and adventure tours.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm confused.

Yes. Yes, you are.

 

[pakeha]

Reality check, anyone?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/26/w...afi-gadhafi-gaddafi.html?_r=2&ref=global-home

 

[Virus]

Reality check, anyone?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/26/w...afi-gadhafi-gaddafi.html?_r=2&ref=global-home

What's the reality check? Everyone knows people there are dying and getting hurt. It's a revolution against a thug regime, not a tickle fight.