Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

[bill smith]

Yes it does, thanks.

It shows me that the building was already falling to the ground and therefore subject to the chaotic forces of crashing steel and concrete at ground level.

But before the building started to fall as a single unit, there was no lean.

It's a dead giveaway that there is no news helicopter footage of the collapse of WTC7. No official helicopter footage either from the FDNY.PDNY or other technical agencies. I mean they say that they knew hours in advance that the building would collapse and yet no news organisation filmed it. The third best footage of the century ignored. The historic record goes unrecorded This on it's own should be considered part of the proof if not grounds for prosecution.

 

[alienentity]

Let's see mrkinnies dodge another gaff. The first one came when he wrote:

...looking at the videos of the north wall from the front. The kink is not seen and the north wall retains it's shape perfectly for nearly all of the drop. To deny that is pure subterfuge.

Uhmm, nope. That would be wrong... of course he tried to dodge it with some bafflegab.

But for the record....

And the latest gaff from the 'architect'

'is this some sort of joke or are you talking about another building?

WTC7 didn't have curtain walls..

See NIST, NCSTAR 1-9 Vol1 p 142

Must hurt to be so wrong so much of the time, mrkinnies..

Double pwnage in 2 days! Love it!

 

[alienentity]

mrkinnies, I think this is why I ended up blocking you from my channel - you lie through your teeth, and you don't attempt to retract these false statements, only dodging and weaving.

You are a fraud, IMO. Unless you wish to retract the statements about the kink and the curtain walls, that is. That might assist your credibility.

 

[paperboy05]

But before the building started to fall as a single unit, there was no lean.

Wait, the building should have been leaning before it started to fall?

Let me try to understand this, is it your opinion that since the building didn't lean before it fell, it is then considered a symmetrical fall even though there was an obvious "kink" and lean as it fell ?

 

[paperboy05]

It's a dead giveaway that there is no news helicopter footage of the collapse of WTC7.

Were they even allowed in the air at that point on 9/11?

No official helicopter footage either from the FDNY.PDNY or other technical agencies either.

Why should there be a need for it? Even if there were you would just wave it off, as you have the other many sources.

The historic record goes unrecorded This on it's own should be considered part of the proof if not grounds for prosecution.

Oh man...

 

[carlitos]

When I read that, I figured that he thought that "curtain walls" would have been windows with actual curtains hanging inside. Architecture school must have been a long time ago.

 

[bill smith]

Were they even allowed in the air at that point on 9/11?


Why should there be a need for it? Even if there were you would just wave it off, as you have the other many sources.


Oh man...

Yes they were in the air all right.

 

[paperboy05]

Yes they were in the air all right.

Are you sure, do you have some video evidence of that, or some document or something? I'm not talking about the first 2 towers, but later around the time 7 collapsed.

 

[mrkinnies]

mrkinnies, I think this is why I ended up blocking you from my channel - you lie through your teeth, and you don't attempt to retract these false statements, only dodging and weaving.

You are a fraud, IMO. Unless you wish to retract the statements about the kink and the curtain walls, that is. That might assist your credibility.

alienentity, you have indeed got me with that one, I thought WTC7 was clad in a different way but if NIST says they were curtain walls then indeed they were.

I apologise for my error and retract that statement.

I did also explain my issue about the north wall in my post earlier today but I think you've conveniently ignored that.

The point I will make about the curtain walls is that they are immaterial to this debate and you shouldn't talk about them as being significant because they were fixed to a frame of beams and columns which took the gravity loading of the building as well as forming the walls. The curtain walls were nothing more than icing on a cake.

My argument still stands, the outer wall structure should not have remained intact if the internal structure was falling to pieces since the exterior was subject to the same vertical and horizontal loads.

Apologies once again. I'm happy to learn too.

 

[bill smith]

Are you sure, do you have some video evidence of that, or some document or something? I'm not talking about the first 2 towers, but later around the time 7 collapsed.

I have news helicopter footage from 2pm way after other air traffic was grounded. If one news organisation was there then they all were.

 

[alienentity]

alienentity, you have indeed got me with that one, I thought WTC7 was clad in a different way but if NIST says they were curtain walls then indeed they were.

I apologise for my error and retract that statement.

Thank you. I don't treat NIST as gospel but that's the reference I have for the curtain walls.

Most of us don't agree with your opinion as to how the exterior 'should' have behaved. I don't think you've made any engineering argument to support your POV thus far.

I'm happy to leave it at that.

 

[paperboy05]

I have news helicopter footage from 2pm way after other air traffic was grounded. If one news organisation was there then they all were.

So you have video from 3 hours before the collapse of a single news copter and are extrapolating that to mean that news orgs should have had air footage during the collapse... why am I not surprised...

 

[bill smith]

So you have video from 3 hours before the collapse of a single news copter and are extrapolating that to mean that news orgs should have had air footage during the collapse... why am I not surprised...

Yes, that's absolutely what I'm claiming. If you seriously think they would willingly have missed the collapse of a 47 storey skyscraper you had better get your head looked at.

 

[paperboy05]

Yes, that's absolutely what I'm claiming. If you seriously think they would willingly have missed the collapse of a 47 storey skyscraper you had better get your head looked at.

Great, so they weren't allowed in the air, how does that prove anything about the official or non-official stories?

Hell let's go back a bit. What is the "dead giveaway" of not having aerial footage?

 

[bill smith]

Great, so they weren't allowed in the air, how does that prove anything about the official or non-official stories?

Hell let's go back a bit. What is the "dead giveaway" of not having aerial footage?

I don't actually doubt that there is aerial footage of the collapse and that they are holding it tight. It wouldn't make any sense for the FDNY,the PDNY and ehatever technical agencies were on hand not to film the collapse from every angle for forensic reasons as well as the historical record.. Don't forget they knew well in advance that the building was coming down and had planty of time to prepare.

So the dead giveaway is that they do not release any aerial footage.

 

[paperboy05]

I don't actually doubt that there is aerial footage of the collapse and that they are holding it tight. It wouldn't make any sense for the FDNY,the PDNY and ehatever technical agencies were on hand not to film the collapse from every angle for forensic reasons as well as the historical record.. Don't forget they knew well in advance that the building was coming down and had planty of time to prepare.

What purpose would it serve to have it from every possible angle? To show people that it fell a certain way? Those that don't believe would wave it off anyway.

So the dead giveaway is that they do not release the footage.

Dead giveaway of WHAT???

 

[DGM]

It's a dead giveaway that there is no news helicopter footage of the collapse of WTC7. No official helicopter footage either from the FDNY.PDNY or other technical agencies. I mean they say that they knew hours in advance that the building would collapse and yet no news organisation filmed it. The third best footage of the century ignored. The historic record goes unrecorded This on it's own should be considered part of the proof if not grounds for prosecution.

You lie again. We already went over how(and when) the skies were "closed. We even posted a link to one of the pilots. Did you forget or hope we did?

 

[bill smith]

You lie again. We already went over how(and when) the skies were "closed. We even posted a link to one of the pilots. Did you forget or hope we did?

Yes we did, and as I recall I made you eat your hat. How was it by the way ?

 

[mrkinnies]

Here is a link to a structural study of damaged steel structures using 3D modelling available through www.nafems.org. It's interesting because it highlights two issues relevant to both the truthers and debunkers.

Firstly, assuming the modelling is accurate, it does indeed suggest that vertical as well as horizontal progressive collapse can induce complete collapse in a steel structure. This is what NIST claims happened.

Secondly, the modelling clearly shows that when structural members are destroyed in one area, that area falls first and rotation occurs towards that area before global collapse is complete. This is what I believe would have happened.

Not sure if any of this is significant but could add to the debate.

http://www.nafems.org/downloads/public/buildingblast.pdf

 

[DGM]

Yes we did, and as I recall I made you eat your hat. How was it by the way ?

Again you lie. Care to show us how many aircraft were in the sky as WTC 7 fell?