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Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

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"The WTC 7 East penthouse had columns on its perimeter and none in its interior. On three sides these columns mounted near the edge of the roof of WTC 7. It is unlikely that a collapse of any core columns of the main building could have pulled them completely down without the roof beams breaking completely loose from the exterior columns and moving down completely also.

It is unlikely that the roof beams were severed from the exterior columns, which is what would be necessary for a core collapse to cause the penthouse to collapse."
 
Seems to me that NIST puts the girder and floor failure at the 11th floor which THEN has heavy debris falling down upon the lower floors which has col 79 move downward failing more floors all the way up to the penthouse raining more debris into the core and initiating a horizontal progression of collapse through the core.

-Initial failure at the 11th floor causing col 79 to buckle due to heat and loss of horizontal buttress.
-failure of floors along col 79 resulting in large amounts of debris impacting core supports at the 8th floor and lower
-horizontal failure of core

NIST claims it to be the girder on floor 13 which 'walked-off' column 79 (CTBUH disputed this). Floor 13 collapsed causing further floors to fall below it. Column 79 was left with no lateral stability and so buckled.

The core is actually well away from this area. NIST suggests the collapse progressed sideways from east to west, eventually taking the core columns with it.

FEMA suggested that because of the scale of collapse, it must have been the overall structure that failed and for them the critical region was the transfer trusses and cantilever of the north wall on floors 5 and 6. This was below any observed fire.
 
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The symmetry is clear by looking at the videos of the north wall from the front. The kink is not seen and the north wall retains it's shape perfectly for nearly all of the drop. To deny that is pure subterfuge.

Hehe. You're going to eat those words. Rendering still continues..
 
I see three buildings fall almost gracefully as if choreographed. That doesn't happen and has never happened as a result of a damaged caused collapse of any structure. Plus the cement floors were pulverized to dust. That has never happened before or since. Excluding, of course, controlled demolitions.

People who say that the three collapses were not helped by some sort of man made instigated destructive process have an agenda. An agenda to the detriment of decent Americans and to the detriment of what America has stood for since it's inception.

I'm not pleased.
Try learning some structural engineering or try to comprehend physics, and you would be less likely to post the nonsense you posted, and may begin to understand 911.

The buildings on 911 collapsed due to impacts and fire, or fire alone. You offer zero evidence to support your claim of CD.

People who say fire did it, have the logic to apply knowledge to make rational conclusions. Opinions are not evidence; where is your evidence?
 
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OK we have some agreement. And I agree that looking at the north perimeter video it looks straight, not tilted. But 7:20 into video 15, I have a picture of Building 7 tilting noticeably to the left prior to collapse. Firefighter reports also talk about putting transits on to confirm their eyeballing of leaning in the building.

I'm taking this real slow and ignorant. Look at the picture and read again the firefighters' reports and tell me if you agree that there was at least some leaning of Building 7 prior to the collapse? Pure observation here, be honest as I have, thanks.
 
Thanks for your honest observation and post.

I disagree that the building appeared to lean to the east side. Looking at the videos taken head-on to the north wall, the sides of that wall remain totally vertically for almost the entire duration of fall.

AS for the issue of the building falling as a single unit. The east penthouse was approximately one quarter of the area of a typical floor. That means it represented just over 0.5% of the total structure. In other words, the collapse of the remaining building after the penthouse had fallen was 99.5% complete (call it 99% if we include the drop of the west penthouse a split second before final collapse). Since there was no further visible destruction to the building at the moment in time when the north and west walls began to fall I'd say that it fell as a single unit.

That fall was also straight down and without initial rotation.
The above post is my response to this reply... sorry I forgot to click on the quote message box.
 
OK we have some agreement. And I agree that looking at the north perimeter video it looks straight, not tilted. But 7:20 into video 15, I have a picture of Building 7 tilting noticeably to the left prior to collapse. Firefighter reports also talk about putting transits on to confirm their eyeballing of leaning in the building.

I'm taking this real slow and ignorant. Look at the picture and read again the firefighters' reports and tell me if you agree that there was at least some leaning of Building 7 prior to the collapse? Pure observation here, be honest as I have, thanks.

Transits are used to measure microscopic movements in a building Chris. Why would you use transits if you can already see a lean?

I thought it was a 'bulge' that they used the transits on anyway.
 
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Transits are used to measure microscopic movements in a building Chris. Why would you use transits if you can already see a lean?

No, you could see it, thats why this firefighter talks about seeing it here:

 
No, you could see it, thats why this firefighter talks about seeing it here:


The structural 'tegrity guy ? I must say he looks like a really trustworthy person. Babysitter material even.
 
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The structural 'tegrity guy ? I must say he looks like a really trustworthy person. Babysitter material.

He's a firefighter Bill, we know you hate the FDNY when you feel like it, other than when you're misquoting them of course. The point it it was seen visibly leaning. Thats what the experts on the scene said.
 
You left off the CORRECT and easy rebuttal the author of the video made. So I'll help you out.

"Based on the exterior appearance of the collapse we can immediately verify that the actual collapse of WTC 7 looks nothing like the exterior of the NIST model. Therefor the model is wrong. It does not accurately describe reality.

In reality we see a crimp appear in the middle of the building and the rest of the building immediately lose all structural stability and begin to fall at the rate of gravity straight down as a single unit. This is controlled demolition."

For some of us more senior posters here, we've asked the following question many times.

Perhaps you could be the first to provide a good answer.

If FFA is a key portion of a controlled demolition, can you show us another known controlled demolition that achieves the same FFA?

You'll be the very first to EVER do so. Ever.
 
MrKinnies, you never answered this question.

Is there a difference between the last stage of a process and the entire process? Again, yes or no.
 
Transits are used to measure microscopic movements in a building Chris. Why would you use transits if you can already see a lean?

Because perhaps they were not sure. being professionals, with professional equipment, they checked and found they were right. Furthermore they could check for changes that might indicate immediacy of the problem
 
I see three buildings fall almost gracefully as if choreographed. That doesn't happen and has never happened as a result of a damaged caused collapse of any structure. Plus the cement floors were pulverized to dust. That has never happened before or since. Excluding, of course, controlled demolitions.

People who say that the three collapses were not helped by some sort of man made instigated destructive process have an agenda. An agenda to the detriment of decent Americans and to the detriment of what America has stood for since it's inception.

I'm not pleased.

Edited by kmortis: 
Removed personal comment
 
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Alright Kinnies, here you go. Oh dear, your statement 'The kink is not seen and the north wall retains it's shape perfectly for nearly all of the drop.' is nonsense. Case closed.

Here's a picture of the kink, from my new video. Contrary to your erroneous statement, the kink IS visible, almost immediately as the building drops.

WTC7kink.jpg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HNMcWk5WpY

 
Transits are used to measure microscopic movements in a building Chris. Why would you use transits if you can already see a lean?

Because perhaps they were not sure. being professionals, with professional equipment, they checked and found they were right. Furthermore they could check for changes that might indicate immediacy of the problem


Well, we're having trouble agreeing with even visual observation. The firefighters saw bulges, and used a transit to confirm their visual observation. But I just want to ask, do you see the kink in the roofline? Do you see a tilt in the picture? Just questions of observation. Bill? Mrkinney?
 
I don't think that transits have microscopic measuring accuracy. But, I could be wrong. I haven't used a transit in many years.
 
An 8 year old would not understand the complexity of engineering, but instead would enjoy watching a simple cartoon. You are actually arguing that NIST should have created a simple cartoon and pretended it mimicked a complex event. You can understand this by asking yourself the question 'Is it possible for an engineering model to exactly duplicate millions of random interactions between components as the collapse progresses?'

If your answer is 'yes', please explain, in technical terms, how.
If 'no', then you agree with NIST engineers (whom you have just insulted without any respect, like a petulant 8 year old child) who wrote:

NCSTAR 1-9 Volume 2, pp 599 - 600
'12.5.2 Aspects Following the Collapse Initiation

Once simulation of the global collapse of WTC 7 was underway, there was a great increase in the uncertainty in the progression of the collapse sequence, due to the random nature of the interaction, break up, disintegration, and falling of the debris. the uncertainties deriving from these random processes increasingly influenced the deterministic physics-based collapse process, and the details of the progression of the horizontal failure and final global collapse were increasingly less precise.

One must always read the fine print lest you miss the important details. The most relevant thing you can learn from the collapse is that the model demonstrated that the building could indeed collapse from fire alone; and it showed this in engineering terms, with full documentation that is published and available for scrutiny. The goal was not to create a picture-perfect, Pixar™-style, child-friendly cartoon for people who are too intellectually lazy to actually understand the issues.

If you continue to show zero respect for this kind of work, you reveal yourself as a person whose opinion is rather worthless.

Let's look for one second at what they say "In Stage 2, the north face descended at GRAVITATIONAL ACCELERATION, as the buckled columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This FREE FALL DROP continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0m (105ft), the distance traveled between times t=1.75s and t=4.0s." (all caps is mine)

There's one and only one explanation for this. . Simultaneous and instantaneous column failure.
This is flat-out incorrect. The empirical evidence shows that, following the progressive internal collapse which began roughly 8 seconds previously, the exterior columns of the shell buckled during the initial phase of the 'global collapse'. For some inexplicable reason you omitted all of this empirical information, which of course invalidates your conclusion!
So, in fact, the initial phase, approx. 1.74 seconds, is the interval in which the columns buckled. You see, we know this because the acceleration was <g, which corresponds precisely with the buckling phase.
Your use of the word 'instantaneous' is technically incorrect, 1.74 seconds is not 'instantaneous', nor do you follow NIST's own data and observations. You would do well to remain on the path of technical competence and simply pay attention to the data!

Stage 2, as you correctly copied from NIST (you seem to trust them only here, for some odd reason....;) ) was the period following the buckling where there was no discernible resistance.

Then came Stage 3, where resistance was again encountered. This phase saw a return to the <g acceleration.

The correct conclusion from this data is that the columns buckled (resistance), and then there was essentially no resistance for about 2.25 seconds.

Let's break it down another way:

Out of the 3 stages of the partial view, 2 out of 3 occurred below the acceleration of gravity. The initial phase was 77% as long as the 2nd phase, the 3rd phase was 62% that length.
In total, the period of acceleration nearest g was about 42% of the portion that can be viewed in that video clip.

Conclusion: Resistance was observed for 58% of the clip, a majority of the time. Had the fall of the building been instantaneous, then the initial phase (Stage 1) would have been at g. This did not happen, therefore we can prove, using the data, that the global failure of the external columns was NOT instantaneous.

Your statement is false, based on the evidence.

Further destroying a plausible controlled demolition scenario, there were NO explosions of any kind recorded on any videos taken as WTC 7 collapsed. Thus, unless one argues that ALL the video cameras malfunctioned at that time (a rather amusing hypothesis, dontcha think?), we can safely conclude that there WERE NO EXPLOSIONS at that time.

Without explosions at that precise moment, you have no controlled demolition. It's really that simple.





Maybe you actually believe what you wrote, but nobody else will. It's a shameless strawman argument. Of COURSE explosions were heard, some of them have been recorded by video cameras, and I have videos on my channel dedicated to them.

Your argument 'if we hear an explosion on a video it can never ever be an explosion' is meaningless gibberish. What you are trying to argue, through the back door (I guess you're too shy to actually make the argument on its own merits) is that 'every explosion must be caused by a high explosive demolition charge'.
Of course you know, and we know, that this argument is a false argument, as nobody can prove exactly what caused these explosions. You don't even know where they came from, so what is the point of arguing that they were cutter charges? They might have emanated from the rubble of WTC 1 or 2, they might have come from the street. How on earth could you possibly know which is which?

You are left making a nonsense argument in protest, while completely failing to explain in any satisfactory manner how random explosions post- tower collapse are 'proof' of explosive CD of WTC 7.

I agree, people have some very strange views of the events, and I believe yours qualify as some of the strangest, most illogical and unsupported of the lot. :D

I disagree with what you said. Several reasons have already been pointed out to you, but I will chime in.

Do I expect a model to be perfect? No of course not. Do I expect it to be reasonable? Of course, that model was a disgrace, if you are an American you should be outraged that our tax dollars went to that.

Now let's go back to the beginning, an internal collapse is what I believe you state right? First question is, how would anyone know this is going on? With it being internal, and all. I have always found this a little weird. But fine. Moving on, as has been pointed out to you, to think that the outer structure stayed intact while an internal collapse is going on is unbelievable. Explain to me how this is at all possible. Even the slightest bit.

Next let's move to free fall. Maybe I'll try explaining it a different way. There should be and has to be deceleration given any type of resistance. Just as when a hammer hits a nail, or you cut a log with an ax. The hammer and ax decelerate. For the support not to go out at the same time (ie only one support column) rotation, deceleration and/or tilting is expected.

In fact the only observable deceleration that is seen, is when it gets near the very bottom. You know what this kind of reminds me of? I'll give you a hint. Go to your youtube channel and look up your dubunking videos. Go to the brilliant video where you "debunk" CD by showing an example of CD. You guessed it the verinage technique. Looks just like it except nothing was done to the exterior.
 
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Alright Kinnies, here you go. Oh dear, your statement 'The kink is not seen and the north wall retains it's shape perfectly for nearly all of the drop.' is nonsense. Case closed.

Here's a picture of the kink, from my new video. Contrary to your erroneous statement, the kink IS visible, almost immediately as the building drops.

[qimg]http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac206/alienentity1/WTC7kink.jpg[/qimg]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HNMcWk5WpY


I love this bit on the video...."The internal collapse eventually caused the external structure to collapse as well"

This is laughable in the extreme and proves your utter ignorance of this whole element of the debate. You've not bothered to answer this because you cannot. Just saying it happened (like NIST does) is not an explanation. Had the building's walls been pulled inward and crumbled to pieces in a chaotic manner then I would agree with you that the internal collapse caused the destruction of the external structure. But that is not what we see because the outer walls stayed standing as the whole building fell as one in a smooth and complete motion just as if the ground had opened up below. How does that miracle happen - the internal columns and beams failing and falling in a wave east to west but the outer walls staying intact? That's magic but you don't get it because you don't understand it.

The kink was caused by the slight initial twist of the building. That's clear to see. But you cannot escape the fact that the building fell as a single unit, straight down with no rotation at the start. Even NIST confirms that it fell as a single unit. The top corners of the north wall and the shape of the north and west walls remained as they were before collapse. The outer facades retained their shape and the lines of windows & cladding stayed horizontal. The roofline remained horizontal. The building fell as a complete block only rotating towards the south once it had fallen quite a distance (although remember the sub-station structure was underneath the north wall and not the south so offered additional resistance on the north side). Your asymmetry analysis is worthless.

It is impossible to achieve such symmetry of movement for a whole building when you get a localised collapse which is why FEMA could only assume the collapse started lower down (below the fire) in the transfer floors.

Btw, you need to retract your statement that I said the kink is not visible during collapse. I did not as a simple revisit of my post will reveal. I was referring in another post to one of the shots of the north wall where the north wall is virtually black and so the kink is not clearly noticeable but the symmetry is. Nice try at twisting things and to think you wasted a whole YouTube video doing that but you're wrong.

mrkinnies said:
NIST says the kink was due to the collapse of column 79. That happened before the symmetrical collapse of the entire block and only becomes evident once the building fell
 
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