JerryGarcia
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This was funny for a while, but now it's just pathetic and sad.
Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga
- Thread starter Patrick1000
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Not to mention, pulse durations of only 12 and 50 billionths of a second. No kind of camera adjusted for daylight exposure (including the human eye) could possibly see it. For example for a still camera, at a fast shutter speed of 1/1000 sec, in daylight -- a 50 ns pulse half as bright as the sun, adding to the light reflecting off the surroundings to be imaged by the camera, if it happened to occur while the shutter was open, would increase the total exposure by less than 0.0003%.
(Note that at a mile wide, a 50ns pulse of laser light is 100 times wider in diameter, than it is thick. Rather than shaped like a Star Trek phaser beam, or even a photon torpedo, the pulses were shaped like tiddlywinks.)
Respectfully,
Myriad
Jrrarglblarg
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Face, meet palm.
Oh, what a tangled web of nonsense Patrick1000 spins in his "proof," post 982. He doesn't even seem to know what "proof" really means. So much for his multiple qualifications.
Uh-huh. We'll see.
...Remington Stone's statement that a principal in Houston called scientist Joe Wampler personally at the Lick Observatory and gave Professor Wampler the coordinates 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east on the night of the landing...
Funny! I thought that Stone's statement made no mention at all of a "principal" nor that he phoned Wampler personally. Also, I thought that the coordinates given were 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 west.
Let me check. (Sorry folks, but this forum won't yet allow me to include links in my posts, so I can't easily send you to Stone's recollections of 1 May 2007.)
Yep, no mention of a "principal." All it says is "Later that evening, Joe Wampler spoke with Mission Control to obtain the coordinates for the actual landing site." One down.
It definitely does not say that Mission Control personally telephoned Wampler at all, as Patrick1000 claims. Two down.
Also Stone's statement definitely says 00°41′15″N, 23°26′00″W, so it's no wonder Lick didn't get a return from the laser that night, because those cooordinates are for Mare Insularum, a bit north of the site where Surveyor 3 landed and the next moon mission, Apollo 12, would land. And if Patrick1000 isn't sure where that is, it's close to a line between craters Lansberg and Bonpland. Three down.
The man who calculated the launch trajectory and rendezvous solution for the Columbia and Eagle, H. David Reed, determined the LM to be at .636 north and 25.50 east.... [removing wall of text to get to the point] ...knowing how to perform the straightforward conversion to the "seconds and minutes of arc" format, Reed's rendezvous radar coordinates become 00 40 35 north and 23 25 43 east.
Wow! 25.50 east. That's further east than the landing ellipse and even further east than craters Moltke (the bright one southeast of the landing site) and Armstrong (formerly Sabine E -- to the northeast). And alas, being untrue to his promise to proceed step by step, Patrick1000 doesn't give the conversion figures he uses and instead supplies one of his usual meaningless walls of text: "...knowing how to perform the straightforward conversion to the 'seconds and minutes of arc' format, Reed's rendezvous radar coordinates become 00 40 35 north and 23 25 43 east."
Dear oh dear, Patrick1000, how did you get to 23 25 43 from 25.50? Why didn't you show your workings? Tell us! You certainly didn't use the minus 4'17" stated under Table 5-IV in the mission report, did you? That would still leave a longitude of 25 25 43 east, a degree further east than the eastern end of the landing ellipse, and still further east than Armstrong/Sabine E. And we know it wasn't that far east because Eagle landed long, but still inside the western end of the ellipse.
You used the plus 2'25" under Table 5-IV to get the latitude, so how did you arrive at the longitude? If you proceeded step by step as you promised, we would know. But you didn't, so we don't.
Did you just pick a figure out of the air to get the longitude, like you pick other things? Four down.
00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, the numbers as they were given to the staff at Lick Observatory by an Apollo Program principal on the night of 07/20/1969
No, Patrick1000, repeating an error or a fantasy does not make it right. It was not "an Apollo Program principal," and it was not east. According to Stone, it was definitely west. Five down.
As it turned out, those coordinates were indeed "pinpoint". They were coordinates for the very point upon which the LRRR rested. The ultimately successful targeting of the LRRR, somewhat ironically, proved it to be the case, the case that 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east were the EXACT LRRR coordinates.
No, again. The truth is, we really don't know what coordinates were given to Lick on 20 July 1969 because we don't have any evidence from that time. Only a 37-year-old recollection written "Somewhere over Texas" with coordinates that appear to be added after the event, so they are more likely a mucked up version of the official ones obtained from the viewing of the movie film of the landing.
Oops! That means that something landed and someone was around to switch on the movie camera, aim it, and adjust the frame rate and aperture. Funny, that! Six down.
The moon is 240,000 miles away. That's one billion, two hundred and sixty seven million, two hundred thousand feet. 240,000 miles away, and they are measuring the position of the eagle to within 105 feet of it's north coordinate. A calculation to better than one part in 12 million given the distance over which the calculation is made.
No, the figures were obtained from telemetry from Eagle, plus the astronauts' description of the area around the landing site, and most of all from the landing film which shows the land on the northern side of West crater with it's many boulders, and shows Eagle passing over East (or Little West) crater just before landing. We can all watch that film on the Spacecraft Films' Apollo 11 DVDs and follow some of the landmarks on the way down. Seven down.
In his chapter of the book, FROM THE TRENCHES OF MISSION CONTROL TO THE CRATERS OF THE MOON, Reed wrote, "Later we would find out just where were we on the surface. We were actually over 25,000 feet from the nearest of the other five choices we had! At 5,000-fps orbital velocity of the CSM that could have been up to a ten second error in liftoff".
Perhaps that "25,000 feet" could be right if Eagle was indeed over 25 degrees east, but we know it wasn't, and Patrick1000 doesn't state the five choices Reed had, so we just don't know what the hell is going on here.
An examination of Figure 5-14 in the Mission Report and a study of the map coordinates given to Mike Collins in the ALSJ, shows that the greatest distance the centre of any of the sextant coverage circles was from the actual landing site, was about 16,598 feet. Circle 6, which was way off to the southwest.
Circle 1 actually includes the actual landing site near its bottom edge, but as Mike Collins said, he could only inspect a one-kilometre square on each pass and figure 5-14 shows that six squares fitted in his sextant.
The centre of circle 1 was about 4,439 feet from Eagle. So it's hard to tell what Reed means, and Patrick1000 doesn't help with his walls of words. Eight down?
CapCom tells astronaut Collins the LRRR has been successfully targeted. If that were the case, they would know coordinates to a degree of great precision... This CapCom statement is intentionally misleading, "planted" in the transcript by way of scripting... "CC You might be interested in knowing, Mike, that we have gotten reflections back from the laser reflector ray they deployed, and we may be able to get some information out of that a little later."
Poor, wrong, fantasizing, Patrick1000. You were given links to this story earlier in this thread and you've paid no attention to them. It's all news to me, being a Kiwi, but it seems that one of the TV channels in the U.S. had a feed to a telescope at Lick. It was focussed on the moon and happened to be showing some scattered light reflections that looked to laypeople as if they were coming from the moon, so they became misinterpreted as returns from the LRRR. Research tells us that it takes sophisticated electronic gear to recognise a return from the LRRR, and a return would not show as scattered lights on a TV screen.
However, the information about the lights reached Mission Control and the Capcom passed it on. It was a simple mistake, but Patrick1000 of course makes a ridiculous issue of it. Nine down.
Note; Collins is an intelligent man... assuming he wants to find Armstrong... he would be asking for the LRRR based coordinates... Whether they've got them or not, Collins would be asking and expecting them. This is not real. Instead, he is searching with a sextant for the Eagle. Not credible at all! FRAUD!!!!
This is just so funny! And so pathetic. If Patrick1000 were not so ignorant about Apollo he would know that Collins had just taken his last look for Eagle at around 112:31:52 on Mission Control's instructions. As the ALSJ says:
See? It was his last look because he had to save fuel. Ten down.
The figures Ron Evans gave at 123:55:36 were nearer 234 than 200 metres from the actual site, but Mike was too busy with other things at LM liftoff to take a look through the sextant.
To get back to Patrick1000's whafflings, fantasies, walls of text, and grievous errors, it appears to me that all Lick had to be provided with to make a succesful hit on the LRRR on 20 July 1969 (presuming everything else was in its favour, which it wasn't), was the coordinates of circle No. 1 in Figure 5-14. It is centred on Map reference L.0, 7.3 and this location was given to Mike Collins at 104:20:42. I don't know it's exact latitude and longtitude, but Mission Control would have known. Perhaps that is what the mystery man gave Joe Wampler.
Ten is enough skittles for one night. It's way past my bedtime.
My apologies to the normal, sane people here for my "wall of text," but I guess one deserves another as long as it says something useful.
Uh-huh. We'll see.
...Remington Stone's statement that a principal in Houston called scientist Joe Wampler personally at the Lick Observatory and gave Professor Wampler the coordinates 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east on the night of the landing...
Funny! I thought that Stone's statement made no mention at all of a "principal" nor that he phoned Wampler personally. Also, I thought that the coordinates given were 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 west.
Let me check. (Sorry folks, but this forum won't yet allow me to include links in my posts, so I can't easily send you to Stone's recollections of 1 May 2007.)
Yep, no mention of a "principal." All it says is "Later that evening, Joe Wampler spoke with Mission Control to obtain the coordinates for the actual landing site." One down.
It definitely does not say that Mission Control personally telephoned Wampler at all, as Patrick1000 claims. Two down.
Also Stone's statement definitely says 00°41′15″N, 23°26′00″W, so it's no wonder Lick didn't get a return from the laser that night, because those cooordinates are for Mare Insularum, a bit north of the site where Surveyor 3 landed and the next moon mission, Apollo 12, would land. And if Patrick1000 isn't sure where that is, it's close to a line between craters Lansberg and Bonpland. Three down.
The man who calculated the launch trajectory and rendezvous solution for the Columbia and Eagle, H. David Reed, determined the LM to be at .636 north and 25.50 east.... [removing wall of text to get to the point] ...knowing how to perform the straightforward conversion to the "seconds and minutes of arc" format, Reed's rendezvous radar coordinates become 00 40 35 north and 23 25 43 east.
Wow! 25.50 east. That's further east than the landing ellipse and even further east than craters Moltke (the bright one southeast of the landing site) and Armstrong (formerly Sabine E -- to the northeast). And alas, being untrue to his promise to proceed step by step, Patrick1000 doesn't give the conversion figures he uses and instead supplies one of his usual meaningless walls of text: "...knowing how to perform the straightforward conversion to the 'seconds and minutes of arc' format, Reed's rendezvous radar coordinates become 00 40 35 north and 23 25 43 east."
Dear oh dear, Patrick1000, how did you get to 23 25 43 from 25.50? Why didn't you show your workings? Tell us! You certainly didn't use the minus 4'17" stated under Table 5-IV in the mission report, did you? That would still leave a longitude of 25 25 43 east, a degree further east than the eastern end of the landing ellipse, and still further east than Armstrong/Sabine E. And we know it wasn't that far east because Eagle landed long, but still inside the western end of the ellipse.
You used the plus 2'25" under Table 5-IV to get the latitude, so how did you arrive at the longitude? If you proceeded step by step as you promised, we would know. But you didn't, so we don't.
Did you just pick a figure out of the air to get the longitude, like you pick other things? Four down.
00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, the numbers as they were given to the staff at Lick Observatory by an Apollo Program principal on the night of 07/20/1969
No, Patrick1000, repeating an error or a fantasy does not make it right. It was not "an Apollo Program principal," and it was not east. According to Stone, it was definitely west. Five down.
As it turned out, those coordinates were indeed "pinpoint". They were coordinates for the very point upon which the LRRR rested. The ultimately successful targeting of the LRRR, somewhat ironically, proved it to be the case, the case that 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east were the EXACT LRRR coordinates.
No, again. The truth is, we really don't know what coordinates were given to Lick on 20 July 1969 because we don't have any evidence from that time. Only a 37-year-old recollection written "Somewhere over Texas" with coordinates that appear to be added after the event, so they are more likely a mucked up version of the official ones obtained from the viewing of the movie film of the landing.
Oops! That means that something landed and someone was around to switch on the movie camera, aim it, and adjust the frame rate and aperture. Funny, that! Six down.
The moon is 240,000 miles away. That's one billion, two hundred and sixty seven million, two hundred thousand feet. 240,000 miles away, and they are measuring the position of the eagle to within 105 feet of it's north coordinate. A calculation to better than one part in 12 million given the distance over which the calculation is made.
No, the figures were obtained from telemetry from Eagle, plus the astronauts' description of the area around the landing site, and most of all from the landing film which shows the land on the northern side of West crater with it's many boulders, and shows Eagle passing over East (or Little West) crater just before landing. We can all watch that film on the Spacecraft Films' Apollo 11 DVDs and follow some of the landmarks on the way down. Seven down.
In his chapter of the book, FROM THE TRENCHES OF MISSION CONTROL TO THE CRATERS OF THE MOON, Reed wrote, "Later we would find out just where were we on the surface. We were actually over 25,000 feet from the nearest of the other five choices we had! At 5,000-fps orbital velocity of the CSM that could have been up to a ten second error in liftoff".
Perhaps that "25,000 feet" could be right if Eagle was indeed over 25 degrees east, but we know it wasn't, and Patrick1000 doesn't state the five choices Reed had, so we just don't know what the hell is going on here.
An examination of Figure 5-14 in the Mission Report and a study of the map coordinates given to Mike Collins in the ALSJ, shows that the greatest distance the centre of any of the sextant coverage circles was from the actual landing site, was about 16,598 feet. Circle 6, which was way off to the southwest.
Circle 1 actually includes the actual landing site near its bottom edge, but as Mike Collins said, he could only inspect a one-kilometre square on each pass and figure 5-14 shows that six squares fitted in his sextant.
The centre of circle 1 was about 4,439 feet from Eagle. So it's hard to tell what Reed means, and Patrick1000 doesn't help with his walls of words. Eight down?
CapCom tells astronaut Collins the LRRR has been successfully targeted. If that were the case, they would know coordinates to a degree of great precision... This CapCom statement is intentionally misleading, "planted" in the transcript by way of scripting... "CC You might be interested in knowing, Mike, that we have gotten reflections back from the laser reflector ray they deployed, and we may be able to get some information out of that a little later."
Poor, wrong, fantasizing, Patrick1000. You were given links to this story earlier in this thread and you've paid no attention to them. It's all news to me, being a Kiwi, but it seems that one of the TV channels in the U.S. had a feed to a telescope at Lick. It was focussed on the moon and happened to be showing some scattered light reflections that looked to laypeople as if they were coming from the moon, so they became misinterpreted as returns from the LRRR. Research tells us that it takes sophisticated electronic gear to recognise a return from the LRRR, and a return would not show as scattered lights on a TV screen.
However, the information about the lights reached Mission Control and the Capcom passed it on. It was a simple mistake, but Patrick1000 of course makes a ridiculous issue of it. Nine down.
Note; Collins is an intelligent man... assuming he wants to find Armstrong... he would be asking for the LRRR based coordinates... Whether they've got them or not, Collins would be asking and expecting them. This is not real. Instead, he is searching with a sextant for the Eagle. Not credible at all! FRAUD!!!!
This is just so funny! And so pathetic. If Patrick1000 were not so ignorant about Apollo he would know that Collins had just taken his last look for Eagle at around 112:31:52 on Mission Control's instructions. As the ALSJ says:
See? It was his last look because he had to save fuel. Ten down.
The figures Ron Evans gave at 123:55:36 were nearer 234 than 200 metres from the actual site, but Mike was too busy with other things at LM liftoff to take a look through the sextant.
To get back to Patrick1000's whafflings, fantasies, walls of text, and grievous errors, it appears to me that all Lick had to be provided with to make a succesful hit on the LRRR on 20 July 1969 (presuming everything else was in its favour, which it wasn't), was the coordinates of circle No. 1 in Figure 5-14. It is centred on Map reference L.0, 7.3 and this location was given to Mike Collins at 104:20:42. I don't know it's exact latitude and longtitude, but Mission Control would have known. Perhaps that is what the mystery man gave Joe Wampler.
Ten is enough skittles for one night. It's way past my bedtime.
My apologies to the normal, sane people here for my "wall of text," but I guess one deserves another as long as it says something useful.
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abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
See what you missed there? The laser was fired AFTER the astronauts left.
How would they possibly see it?
Same problem. The astronauts should not have seen it. They weren't there anymore.
Why do you persist in quoting scientific people who decimate your arguments?
According to what you quoted above Armstrong and Aldrin were long since gone when they got a laser signal through. How could they have seen it let alone photographed it?
And Charles is not "one of yours".
"Dirt dumb"?
"Dumber than a box of hammers"?
"As dumb as a cabbage appointed Professor of Dumb at Oxford University"?
p.s. I'd never noticed that weather patterns thing you mentioned. That's what you call attention to detail
As dumb as a 841.5 pound bag of rocks might be appropriate
Patrick1000
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As posted in my # 1009, laser was firing before ascent
Sure Charles is "one of mine" Abaddon. In case you missed it, his point was that the weak(1 watt), argon laser, photographed by Surveyor VII in 1968, was visible from the surface of the moon when the entire city of LA was not, and the Lick laser was all the more powerful, much much much more powerful still. Next go round I'll say more. It is well established the image of the lasers as taken with the Surveyor VII camera appeared as bright as Sirius, brightest star in the sky. This, per professor Alley, the LRRR principal investigator.
Glad to see you back in the action abaddon. I posted this in #1009. Only doing so again as you missed it, and do not mean that in any cynical way. you just missed it. Many other references feature comments with respect to the laser firing while the astronauts are on the moon. I'll include some others for you on my next go round. But really intended to not be posting so much and need rest.
We know Lick Observatory was contacted and targeted the laser upon the lunar LRRR before the astronauts even "left the moon's surface". A quote from the Apollo 11 Mission Commentary to be sure we all understand that this is a point very much not in contention;
"APOLLO 11 MISSION COMMENTARY, 7/21/69, CDT 12 noon, GET 123:28, 405/1 PAO. This is Apollo Control. Here in mission
control center Flight Director Glen Lunney is polling the various positions here in the control room on their readiness
to go ahead with the ascent from this next pass as the command module comes around the moon, and we're some 53 minutes now
away from ascent. Meanwhile back at the scientific experiment situation, another attempt is scheduled today to shoot another
laser beam up to the laser retroreflector, which is the other part of the experiment package left on the moon."
See they are shooting "another beam" before the ascent.
Again, good to see you active again. Pat
Sure Charles is "one of mine" Abaddon. In case you missed it, his point was that the weak(1 watt), argon laser, photographed by Surveyor VII in 1968, was visible from the surface of the moon when the entire city of LA was not, and the Lick laser was all the more powerful, much much much more powerful still. Next go round I'll say more. It is well established the image of the lasers as taken with the Surveyor VII camera appeared as bright as Sirius, brightest star in the sky. This, per professor Alley, the LRRR principal investigator.
Glad to see you back in the action abaddon. I posted this in #1009. Only doing so again as you missed it, and do not mean that in any cynical way. you just missed it. Many other references feature comments with respect to the laser firing while the astronauts are on the moon. I'll include some others for you on my next go round. But really intended to not be posting so much and need rest.
We know Lick Observatory was contacted and targeted the laser upon the lunar LRRR before the astronauts even "left the moon's surface". A quote from the Apollo 11 Mission Commentary to be sure we all understand that this is a point very much not in contention;
"APOLLO 11 MISSION COMMENTARY, 7/21/69, CDT 12 noon, GET 123:28, 405/1 PAO. This is Apollo Control. Here in mission
control center Flight Director Glen Lunney is polling the various positions here in the control room on their readiness
to go ahead with the ascent from this next pass as the command module comes around the moon, and we're some 53 minutes now
away from ascent. Meanwhile back at the scientific experiment situation, another attempt is scheduled today to shoot another
laser beam up to the laser retroreflector, which is the other part of the experiment package left on the moon."
See they are shooting "another beam" before the ascent.
Again, good to see you active again. Pat
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Patrick1000
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They deny stars to deny the laser as much as anything
This explains one of Apollo's deep mysteries drewid. At the post Apollo 11 flight press conference, Armsrtong says that at no time did any of the astronauts("WE" he says) see stars from the surface of the moon or the sunlit side of the moon when travleing in the CM. Ever wonder why he says this? Why say something so off the wall unless of course your contrived story demands it? This is a risky risky lie because it is so out there. As such, it reveals one of the fraud's crucial aspects, difficulty in dealing with the laser/LRRR. On the one hand, the LRRR's successful targeting will "prove" they really were up there, on the other hand, they can't let anyone know where the LRRR is while they have cameras running and while they are vulnerable to being asked questions about it. (Actually Aldrin claims to see it once, the laser, and is asked about it fairly late in the trip. But this is staged, contrived, inauthentic.) The laser is a hot hot problem given the astronauts are not in fact anywhere near it and wouldn't begin to really know how to describe it. Aldrin says it is white I believe. Were they really on the moon, it would all be different.
Ever wonder how Armstrong gets away with saying that for the vast majority of the cislunar excursion to the moon, for over 200,000 miles of coasting out to mother earth's closest luminary, for the most part, the astronauts say they saw no stars? Not a credible statement at all, a very risky lie. Must be covering for something very big to take that risk, sonmething like an inability to deal with the laser issue. Best to deny it by way of saying one cannot see anything.
Haven't you ever wondered drewid why it is that Armstrong makes such a preposterous claim? Well here it is, one of the deep and great Apollo 11 Mission mysteries now before us open to read like a child's space adventure book, so very simple now to see wouldn't you say?
To see stars is to see the laser, an ever so complicated problem with which to deal for so many reasons if the journey is fraud and not science.
This is critical stuff drewid, critical.
Pat
This explains one of Apollo's deep mysteries drewid. At the post Apollo 11 flight press conference, Armsrtong says that at no time did any of the astronauts("WE" he says) see stars from the surface of the moon or the sunlit side of the moon when travleing in the CM. Ever wonder why he says this? Why say something so off the wall unless of course your contrived story demands it? This is a risky risky lie because it is so out there. As such, it reveals one of the fraud's crucial aspects, difficulty in dealing with the laser/LRRR. On the one hand, the LRRR's successful targeting will "prove" they really were up there, on the other hand, they can't let anyone know where the LRRR is while they have cameras running and while they are vulnerable to being asked questions about it. (Actually Aldrin claims to see it once, the laser, and is asked about it fairly late in the trip. But this is staged, contrived, inauthentic.) The laser is a hot hot problem given the astronauts are not in fact anywhere near it and wouldn't begin to really know how to describe it. Aldrin says it is white I believe. Were they really on the moon, it would all be different.
Ever wonder how Armstrong gets away with saying that for the vast majority of the cislunar excursion to the moon, for over 200,000 miles of coasting out to mother earth's closest luminary, for the most part, the astronauts say they saw no stars? Not a credible statement at all, a very risky lie. Must be covering for something very big to take that risk, sonmething like an inability to deal with the laser issue. Best to deny it by way of saying one cannot see anything.
Haven't you ever wondered drewid why it is that Armstrong makes such a preposterous claim? Well here it is, one of the deep and great Apollo 11 Mission mysteries now before us open to read like a child's space adventure book, so very simple now to see wouldn't you say?
To see stars is to see the laser, an ever so complicated problem with which to deal for so many reasons if the journey is fraud and not science.
This is critical stuff drewid, critical.
Pat
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Patrick1000
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You expect anyone who is rational to believe you without providing evidence? Why?
Ranb
Jrrarglblarg
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False
"Description: Between December 1968 and December 1972, a total of nine Apollo spacecraft carried human crews away from the Earth to another heavenly body. Primary navigation for these missions was done from the ground. As a backup, and for segments of the mission where ground tracking was not practical, an on-board inertial navigation system was used. Astronauts periodically used a sextant to sight on stars and the horizons of the Earth and Moon to align the inertial system, and to verify the accuracy of the Earth-based tracking data. "
http://www.ion.org/museum/item_view.cfm?cid=6&scid=5&iid=293
Once again, your post is full of fail.
Jrrarglblarg
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As myriad told you upthread,
So full of fail. Your fail bucket doth run over.
What a stupid strawman question. Armstrong made no "preposterous" claims, therefore your question is irrelevant.
If you keep asking these "do you still beat your wife" type questions, don't be surprised at the response you receive.
...and as we keep telling you, the Apollo missions are ESTABLISHED FACT. If you disagree, the onus is on you to prove yourself right.
You simple do not get to arbitrarily decide that we have to prove you wrong....until you get this simple fact through your fat head, this discussion is pointless.
Patrick1000
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As a matter of fact I do Captai_Swoop
This actually was Charles Townes' point in the quote above. I'll repeat it, again, seriously, no cynicysm implied. You simply missed it. Here is Townes as responsible as anyone for the laser's "invention";
"Even before man reached the moon, an unmanned spacecraft had landed on the moon in January, 1968, with a television camera that detected a laser beam shot from near Los Angeles by the California Institute of Technology’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. That beam radiated only about one watt. But from the moon, all the other lights in the Los Angeles basin, drawing thousands of megawatts, were not bright enough to be seen. Their light spread and diffused into relative indetectability while that single beam, with the power of a pocket penlight, sent a twinkling signal to the lunar surface. Laser beams reflected from the moon, allowing measurement of the moon’s distance, is only one illustration of the spectacular quality of laser light."
The Lick Observatory laser Captain_Swoop was infinitely more powerful than the one watt laser that outshown the entire citry of LA. This remarkable visiblity is what Charles Towne wishes to draw our attention to.
Professor C.O. Alley, the principal investigator of the LRRR experiment, was found of pointing out that the image of the lasers as photographed with the Surveyor VII camera appeared as bright a Sirius. I believe the exposure on that may have been a couple of seconds. Still, I believe the point was Sirius was that bright at 2 seconds , or whatever the exposure was, as well. Not positive, we should all check.
Regardless, the scientists involved in these projects constantly hammered tha point that the lasers, even the very weakest ones were as bright as the brightest stars, easily outshining Los Angeles or any other earth centered source of incoherent light.
The Lick Observatory laser was vastly more powerful and presumably much more visible desite the higher wavelength than the weak, 1 watt argon laser photographed by Surveyor VII in the winter of 1968.
Pat
This actually was Charles Townes' point in the quote above. I'll repeat it, again, seriously, no cynicysm implied. You simply missed it. Here is Townes as responsible as anyone for the laser's "invention";
"Even before man reached the moon, an unmanned spacecraft had landed on the moon in January, 1968, with a television camera that detected a laser beam shot from near Los Angeles by the California Institute of Technology’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. That beam radiated only about one watt. But from the moon, all the other lights in the Los Angeles basin, drawing thousands of megawatts, were not bright enough to be seen. Their light spread and diffused into relative indetectability while that single beam, with the power of a pocket penlight, sent a twinkling signal to the lunar surface. Laser beams reflected from the moon, allowing measurement of the moon’s distance, is only one illustration of the spectacular quality of laser light."
The Lick Observatory laser Captain_Swoop was infinitely more powerful than the one watt laser that outshown the entire citry of LA. This remarkable visiblity is what Charles Towne wishes to draw our attention to.
Professor C.O. Alley, the principal investigator of the LRRR experiment, was found of pointing out that the image of the lasers as photographed with the Surveyor VII camera appeared as bright a Sirius. I believe the exposure on that may have been a couple of seconds. Still, I believe the point was Sirius was that bright at 2 seconds , or whatever the exposure was, as well. Not positive, we should all check.
Regardless, the scientists involved in these projects constantly hammered tha point that the lasers, even the very weakest ones were as bright as the brightest stars, easily outshining Los Angeles or any other earth centered source of incoherent light.
The Lick Observatory laser was vastly more powerful and presumably much more visible desite the higher wavelength than the weak, 1 watt argon laser photographed by Surveyor VII in the winter of 1968.
Pat
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