SezMe
post-pre-born
Please specify the great practical value.
Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga
- Thread starter Patrick1000
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Finger exercises. He is going to be starting as a data entry operator next week and needs to limber up.
Burma, if his travel plans pan out.
Hans
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North of the Moon and south of the Sun
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Is that Burma in Europe?
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
Speeding across the Utah salt flats, rocket propelled and monkey navigated.
Patrick1000
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I am surprised and puzzled
I must say abaddon, you of all people, I am more than a little surprised to see that you seem to have given up. Your smarts had motivated me, and if indeed you have resigned yourself to playing the role of one voicing more or less empty sideline criticism, my progress will suffer indirectly. I'll miss your challenges. Pat
I must say abaddon, you of all people, I am more than a little surprised to see that you seem to have given up. Your smarts had motivated me, and if indeed you have resigned yourself to playing the role of one voicing more or less empty sideline criticism, my progress will suffer indirectly. I'll miss your challenges. Pat
Patrick1000
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Hope this doesn't mean what I think it does.
My not being able to actively "study" Apollo right now aside, I had still always looked forward to your challenges nomuse. Really do hope to hear more from you in the way of meaningful criticism of my efforts. I need your smarts to hone my own. If you are lost, I'll occasionally post, as I can, should I come across this or that new. As always, I'll provide excellent references, even if you do disappear along with your thought provoking responses. pat
My not being able to actively "study" Apollo right now aside, I had still always looked forward to your challenges nomuse. Really do hope to hear more from you in the way of meaningful criticism of my efforts. I need your smarts to hone my own. If you are lost, I'll occasionally post, as I can, should I come across this or that new. As always, I'll provide excellent references, even if you do disappear along with your thought provoking responses. pat
Jrrarglblarg
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qrk2
Wrong by the way, radius != diameter.
And you can't hone anything with your fingers in your ears. You simply become irrelevant.
Patrick1000
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Drewid, you play all too carelessly with the numbers, you the credibility of all
I would encourage you to be far more careful with your bad habit of playing fast and loose with numbers drewid, especially those numbers so particularly familiar to us all. You embarrass not only yourself, but your official narrative advocate colleagues as well. You lose credibility not only for yourself, but for your fellow official story apologists as well.
From the authorized biography of Neil Armstrong, FIRST MAN by James Hansen
"At the same time Aldrin was deploying the seismic experiment (from 04:15:53:00 to 04:16:09:50, a duration of roughly seventeen minutes), Armstrong assembled the LRRR, or “LR-cubed.” Designed to measure precisely the distance between the Moon and Earth, the LRRR device consisted of a series of corner-cube reflectors, essentially a special mirror that reflected an incoming light beam back in the direction it came—in this case from a laser aimed at the Sea of Tranquility from inside a large telescope at the University of California’s Lick Observatory, east of San Jose. Though the laser beam remained tightly focused over a very large distance, by the time it traveled the quarter of a million miles from Earth, its signal was widely dispersed, to a signal something in the range of two miles in diameter. To maximize reception of the signal, it was necessary for Armstrong to align the reflector quite accurately. "
Hansen, James R. (2005-10-18). First Man (p. 515). Simon & Schuster. I would
Any source one cares to review will list the laser's diameter as roughly 2 miles upon the beam's arrival at the moon. I encourage all motivated and curious readers to check this fact as well as every one of the other facts I have presented in support of my well referenced argument.
I would encourage you to be far more careful with your bad habit of playing fast and loose with numbers drewid, especially those numbers so particularly familiar to us all. You embarrass not only yourself, but your official narrative advocate colleagues as well. You lose credibility not only for yourself, but for your fellow official story apologists as well.
From the authorized biography of Neil Armstrong, FIRST MAN by James Hansen
"At the same time Aldrin was deploying the seismic experiment (from 04:15:53:00 to 04:16:09:50, a duration of roughly seventeen minutes), Armstrong assembled the LRRR, or “LR-cubed.” Designed to measure precisely the distance between the Moon and Earth, the LRRR device consisted of a series of corner-cube reflectors, essentially a special mirror that reflected an incoming light beam back in the direction it came—in this case from a laser aimed at the Sea of Tranquility from inside a large telescope at the University of California’s Lick Observatory, east of San Jose. Though the laser beam remained tightly focused over a very large distance, by the time it traveled the quarter of a million miles from Earth, its signal was widely dispersed, to a signal something in the range of two miles in diameter. To maximize reception of the signal, it was necessary for Armstrong to align the reflector quite accurately. "
Hansen, James R. (2005-10-18). First Man (p. 515). Simon & Schuster. I would
Any source one cares to review will list the laser's diameter as roughly 2 miles upon the beam's arrival at the moon. I encourage all motivated and curious readers to check this fact as well as every one of the other facts I have presented in support of my well referenced argument.
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SezMe
post-pre-born
Patrick1000
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Posting unopposed
As mentioned SezMe, I find posting unopposed rather enjoyable and with such a marvelous up side, who knows how much time I may find over here for making an effort to formally present my case in the forum. While I welcome responses and do enjoy the challenge they pose, I am more than content to proceed on to the truth and leave you all behind. Best to you Bub! Over and way out for now, DrPat.
As mentioned SezMe, I find posting unopposed rather enjoyable and with such a marvelous up side, who knows how much time I may find over here for making an effort to formally present my case in the forum. While I welcome responses and do enjoy the challenge they pose, I am more than content to proceed on to the truth and leave you all behind. Best to you Bub! Over and way out for now, DrPat.
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Hans
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QUOTE]From the authorized biography of Neil Armstrong, FIRST MAN by James Hansen
[/QUOTE]
I find it vastly amusing that Patrick quotes a book, that in his weird world view is a complete fabrication, as a source for accurate information!
Oh Patrick you might want to look at what time it is in India - you remembered that part of yourlies, er ah story is that you are India
Hilarious
[/QUOTE]
I find it vastly amusing that Patrick quotes a book, that in his weird world view is a complete fabrication, as a source for accurate information!
Oh Patrick you might want to look at what time it is in India - you remembered that part of your
Hilarious
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SezMe
post-pre-born
This is not the first time you've made this or very similar promises: "Stand by Forumites because one of these days I'm gonna really put my case out there."
Can I suggest: Put you damn case out there or quit posting.
Cl1mh4224rd
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Then who wrote this?
Hint: it was you.
ETA: Also...
Sorry, but that's not how it works. No one has to prove you wrong; you have to prove yourself correct. The default status of an unsupported assertion is not "true"; it's "unproven". Get to work.
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Patrick1000
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Coordinate Confusion
Tsig asks a great question there at his post # 970, and now is as good a time as any to address that issue more directly. Why the "coordinate confusion"?
The short answer is that in the case of a genuine lunar landing, we would anticipate the Apollo 11 official narrative to have coherence, and in particular, "coordinate coherence" as one of its features. Not that there could not be any anomalies, problems , or unknowns. But certainly, were Apollo 11's story a "real" story, a "real" story as told in marvelous anecdotes by the 400,000 some odd program participants, a "real" story as told in primary source materials such as the Voice Transcript, Mission Report and so forth, a "real" story as told in popular accounts by the astronauts, sometimes with the help of coauthors, a "real" story as told in magazines/newspapers then(60s and 70s) and now, and a "real" story as told by all of us, the audience for this monstrously epic event; we would find a consistency, a logic, a coherence that we in fact do not find in the official narrative as we relate that narrative to one another, as we tell that narrative with such mythical incoherence, as we relate that narrative which inhabits and confuses our collective consciousness. There are certain aspects of the Apollo 11 tale where this incoherence is glaring, such as that aspect of the tale dealing with where the astronauts were when they landed on the moon. In a "real" landing, if the astronauts were "lost" there would be tremendous intensity of concern, not casual indifference.
Because NASA did not have the ability to land men on the moon, and because part of the fraudulent "proof" for the space program's pretended landing would be the demonstration of the placement of a laser retroreflector on the surface of the moon, if the fraud had any chance of success, the retroreflector could not be successfully targeted until the staged landing was complete. This is because in the context of a "real" landing and "real" attempted LRRR targeting on the night of that landing, we would see the laser's light, the ruby red laser's light, in the tv video, the photos perhaps, reflected off helmets and spaceships, and so forth. The astronauts would report all of this. This is why Armstrong tells Patrick Moore at the post flight press conference and then again in the 1970 BBC interview that they saw no stars during the moon walk, that they did not see stars from cislunar space.
Of course this is an absurd statement, but we can now see its rational. If one can see stars, then one can certainly see the bright and powerful ruby red laser of Lick Observatory. The Russians and French also had lasers and could target a LRRR site. Astronauts were supposed to be there filming with a tv camera, but they really were not there on the moon's surface with their cameras given the fraudulent nature of the landing, and so the LRRR brought to the lunar surface by an unmanned craft prior to the Apollo 11 Mission, or perhaps brought in the context of the very "Apollo 11 Mission" of which we now speak, launched by way of the 07/16/1969 rocket, would not provide Russian, or French LRRR laser marksmen with what they would have anticipated. Perhaps they would get some light to bounce back and "catch it", but on the night of 07/20/1969, they would want to see their laser light make an appearance on Armstrong's tv filming. So the Eagle must be "lost", not completely, but just enough to keep the Lick laser, a Russian or French laser, or the Russian LUNA 15's camera away from Tranquility's site, 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. Remember, NASA need only fear the LUNA 15 camera. NASA people know not exactly what that ship is packing, the threat alone is enough to hide the coordinates.
In support of this general sense of things, a bit from a July 2009 UC Santa Cruz article featuring interviews with several of the great Lick Observatory Astronomers;
"Miller was busy fielding questions from television and newspaper reporters who'd gathered at the observatory for the historic moon landing. Ironically, he was not allowed to answer the question on every reporter's mind because of national security concerns.
"The Russians knew very accurately the distance between Russian cities and between cities within the United States, but they didn't know the distance between the U.S. and Russia," explained Joe Wampler, professor emeritus of astronomy, who coordinated the experiment for the observatory. "Having an accurate measure of the distance to the moon at a moment in time would've given them that information. I was kind of upset about that, because we went into this as a scientific experiment. We weren't doing it for national security."
In the weeks before the lunar landing, Wampler prepared the telescope to accept the laser beam. On July 20, he calculated the precise position on the moon where the laser would be aimed, based on information from NASA about the location of the astronauts.
Astronomer Lloyd Robinson was particularly anxious in the hours before the lasers were first fired. Described as the genius behind the computer interface with the telescope, Robinson had been hired by the observatory just six weeks before the moon landing. Robinson, a research physicist, teamed up with Wampler on the critical task of developing the electronics and computer software to measure and display the time it took the beam of light to travel to the moon and back.
"NASA wanted to be sure they weren't scooped by the Russians or the French, because the Russians had bigger telescopes, and the French had better lasers," recalled Robinson. "They came to Lick and said, 'Can you help us?' There was considerable monetary support. Anything I asked for, I got. That turned out to be the only time in my career that was the case."
With this as a background and acknowledged rational for the need to "hide the Eagle" we can see what must then follow. Essentially all of the 400,000 personal working on this project believe it to be legitimate including the tracking officers, the guidance people, the trajectory/launch specialists like FIDO H. David Reed. You cannot hide the Eagle in an absolute sense or these guidance/FIDO people types will obviously blow the proverbial whistle, and blow it big big time, and so the script calls for this "coordinate ambivalence". For the fraud to work, the guidance people need to buy in, and so they too are fooled with this subtle "semi-hiding" of the lunar bird. We find this unbelievably crazy business with FIDO Reed walking in on the morning of 07/20/1969 and being surprised to find the Eagle is semi-lost. If the bird was flat out lost, of course this would not work. So it is subtly lost, kind of lost, "we know it is around here somewhere pretty close" kind of thing, but nobody is going to say openly until it's time to fly that the Eagle is within 2 miles of 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. And so indeed, this is how the thing plays out.
Before moving on, I would like to say, the astronauts should not be vilified. We do not know what they were told exactly as to why this needed to be done. They need to be treated with great compassion, especially Armstrong. He was and is immensely courageous in every sense.
For the sake of expedience, I'll run through this all fairly quickly. We can of course and we very much will return to each of these points in great detail as we explore what happened during those days in the summer of 1969.
The lunar surface was not attainable for as of now, unclear reasons. But given this still to be puzzled out lunar unattainability, after the successful landing of Surveyor VII on the moon's surface in January of 1968, a mission featuring the unmanned craft's being targeted by and then filming with its camera 2 argon lasers that were shined upon it from earth, astronomer C.O. Alley and others called for the placement of an LRRR either by Surveyor type craft or Apollo manned craft. Alley of course believed at the time that Apollo was genuine.
With Apollo in full swing, scientists like geologist Donald Beattie, a patriotic man himself, like Alley, totally buying in, were involved in the design and assessment of clever devices such as an LRRR that automatically read lunar coordinates when struck by laser light. Here's Beattie describing this;
"USGS had similar concerns but thought the biggest problem would be locating and documenting the sites visited, and in particular sampled, so that accurate traverse maps and profiles could be reconstructed back on Earth. The Flagstaff team had devised a surveying staff that would reflect a laser beam from a ranging device and automatically record the coordinates of a position on the lunar surface. This approach was based on the simulations and exercises we had been conducting for the post-Apollo missions, which suggested that without some type of surveying instrument it would be almost impossible for an astronaut to accurately locate his position on the Moon and associate a sample or observation with a specific point. Lunar geologic maps made without such positioning would be seriously degraded in value, since to establish map locations we would have to depend on some type of dead reckoning or coarse Earth-tracking and reconstruction of the traverse based on voice communication.2
Donald A. Beattie. Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program (Ebook Locations 1614-1619).
As attainment of the lunar surface was in fact not achievable, but given that the placement of such a device would provide just the ticket in terms of convincing people we really had landed, the device, an LRRR with or without the fancy coordinate identifier is launched from the Earth and finds its way to 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. The very rocket launched on 07/16/1969 may have carried this LRRR device.
The night of the landing, coordinates are passed to the Lick Observatory staff. The official narrative then features this schizophrenic feature of the semi-lost astronauts. If the Lick laser shoots even directly at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, the light bouncing back will not be caught because of the JPL programming problem. So the failure to record/film the laser from Lick can at least on the evening of 07/20/1969 be attributed to the mistaken sense that no one knew exactly where the LRRR was. The Lick laser may have been right on top of the LRRR, but since there was this bogus coordinate confusion, the "missing", at least that evening, would be chalked up to no one really knowing exactly where the thing was. So the Lick coordinates are good ones, and as we have seen, they are not "acquired legitimately". They are not calculated as they would have to have been were the thing real. In 12 days' time the JPL timing snag is figured out and the thing works when there is no Neil Armstrong around to film an anticipated/expected laser beam appearance. Publicly , no coordinates are passed to anyone with their own laser, own camera, or any potential to spoil the party(Russians, French, ?others). If word got out the LRRR was at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, then outsiders targeting the laser, or photographing the site would not find what they would have expected were this a real landing. they may get photons back, but not see their laser on tv.
The astronauts deny stars for several reasons, not the least of which being, if you see stars, you see lasers, and bright ones, very bright ones at that. The moonscape photos appear as they do with never a hint of a laser bearing earth in the sky. I believe a couple pics have the Earth. Were this real, they would see and could photograph the laser at times, when the laser fired, just as Surveyor photographed much dimmer beams in 1968.
The semi lost Eagle is found on the morning of 07/21/1969 by honest Joe, honest David I should say, H. David Reed, with his clever reverse rendezvous radar solution, and the fraud is more or less complete.
Keep in mind, I have already demonstrated there was fraud without question by showing that coordinates of great accuracy were passed to the Lick Observatory staff before such coordinates were ever solved for, ever calculated. So we already have proven fraud. Presented here is a very probable scenario, though there are others, related scenarios, similar in sense that can be spun out of my general scheme presented here.
Adequate referencing has already been provided above in my previous posts. Detail will be added as we explore further and move forward along with much more in the way of referencing.
Pat
Tsig asks a great question there at his post # 970, and now is as good a time as any to address that issue more directly. Why the "coordinate confusion"?
The short answer is that in the case of a genuine lunar landing, we would anticipate the Apollo 11 official narrative to have coherence, and in particular, "coordinate coherence" as one of its features. Not that there could not be any anomalies, problems , or unknowns. But certainly, were Apollo 11's story a "real" story, a "real" story as told in marvelous anecdotes by the 400,000 some odd program participants, a "real" story as told in primary source materials such as the Voice Transcript, Mission Report and so forth, a "real" story as told in popular accounts by the astronauts, sometimes with the help of coauthors, a "real" story as told in magazines/newspapers then(60s and 70s) and now, and a "real" story as told by all of us, the audience for this monstrously epic event; we would find a consistency, a logic, a coherence that we in fact do not find in the official narrative as we relate that narrative to one another, as we tell that narrative with such mythical incoherence, as we relate that narrative which inhabits and confuses our collective consciousness. There are certain aspects of the Apollo 11 tale where this incoherence is glaring, such as that aspect of the tale dealing with where the astronauts were when they landed on the moon. In a "real" landing, if the astronauts were "lost" there would be tremendous intensity of concern, not casual indifference.
Because NASA did not have the ability to land men on the moon, and because part of the fraudulent "proof" for the space program's pretended landing would be the demonstration of the placement of a laser retroreflector on the surface of the moon, if the fraud had any chance of success, the retroreflector could not be successfully targeted until the staged landing was complete. This is because in the context of a "real" landing and "real" attempted LRRR targeting on the night of that landing, we would see the laser's light, the ruby red laser's light, in the tv video, the photos perhaps, reflected off helmets and spaceships, and so forth. The astronauts would report all of this. This is why Armstrong tells Patrick Moore at the post flight press conference and then again in the 1970 BBC interview that they saw no stars during the moon walk, that they did not see stars from cislunar space.
Of course this is an absurd statement, but we can now see its rational. If one can see stars, then one can certainly see the bright and powerful ruby red laser of Lick Observatory. The Russians and French also had lasers and could target a LRRR site. Astronauts were supposed to be there filming with a tv camera, but they really were not there on the moon's surface with their cameras given the fraudulent nature of the landing, and so the LRRR brought to the lunar surface by an unmanned craft prior to the Apollo 11 Mission, or perhaps brought in the context of the very "Apollo 11 Mission" of which we now speak, launched by way of the 07/16/1969 rocket, would not provide Russian, or French LRRR laser marksmen with what they would have anticipated. Perhaps they would get some light to bounce back and "catch it", but on the night of 07/20/1969, they would want to see their laser light make an appearance on Armstrong's tv filming. So the Eagle must be "lost", not completely, but just enough to keep the Lick laser, a Russian or French laser, or the Russian LUNA 15's camera away from Tranquility's site, 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. Remember, NASA need only fear the LUNA 15 camera. NASA people know not exactly what that ship is packing, the threat alone is enough to hide the coordinates.
In support of this general sense of things, a bit from a July 2009 UC Santa Cruz article featuring interviews with several of the great Lick Observatory Astronomers;
"Miller was busy fielding questions from television and newspaper reporters who'd gathered at the observatory for the historic moon landing. Ironically, he was not allowed to answer the question on every reporter's mind because of national security concerns.
"The Russians knew very accurately the distance between Russian cities and between cities within the United States, but they didn't know the distance between the U.S. and Russia," explained Joe Wampler, professor emeritus of astronomy, who coordinated the experiment for the observatory. "Having an accurate measure of the distance to the moon at a moment in time would've given them that information. I was kind of upset about that, because we went into this as a scientific experiment. We weren't doing it for national security."
In the weeks before the lunar landing, Wampler prepared the telescope to accept the laser beam. On July 20, he calculated the precise position on the moon where the laser would be aimed, based on information from NASA about the location of the astronauts.
Astronomer Lloyd Robinson was particularly anxious in the hours before the lasers were first fired. Described as the genius behind the computer interface with the telescope, Robinson had been hired by the observatory just six weeks before the moon landing. Robinson, a research physicist, teamed up with Wampler on the critical task of developing the electronics and computer software to measure and display the time it took the beam of light to travel to the moon and back.
"NASA wanted to be sure they weren't scooped by the Russians or the French, because the Russians had bigger telescopes, and the French had better lasers," recalled Robinson. "They came to Lick and said, 'Can you help us?' There was considerable monetary support. Anything I asked for, I got. That turned out to be the only time in my career that was the case."
With this as a background and acknowledged rational for the need to "hide the Eagle" we can see what must then follow. Essentially all of the 400,000 personal working on this project believe it to be legitimate including the tracking officers, the guidance people, the trajectory/launch specialists like FIDO H. David Reed. You cannot hide the Eagle in an absolute sense or these guidance/FIDO people types will obviously blow the proverbial whistle, and blow it big big time, and so the script calls for this "coordinate ambivalence". For the fraud to work, the guidance people need to buy in, and so they too are fooled with this subtle "semi-hiding" of the lunar bird. We find this unbelievably crazy business with FIDO Reed walking in on the morning of 07/20/1969 and being surprised to find the Eagle is semi-lost. If the bird was flat out lost, of course this would not work. So it is subtly lost, kind of lost, "we know it is around here somewhere pretty close" kind of thing, but nobody is going to say openly until it's time to fly that the Eagle is within 2 miles of 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. And so indeed, this is how the thing plays out.
Before moving on, I would like to say, the astronauts should not be vilified. We do not know what they were told exactly as to why this needed to be done. They need to be treated with great compassion, especially Armstrong. He was and is immensely courageous in every sense.
For the sake of expedience, I'll run through this all fairly quickly. We can of course and we very much will return to each of these points in great detail as we explore what happened during those days in the summer of 1969.
The lunar surface was not attainable for as of now, unclear reasons. But given this still to be puzzled out lunar unattainability, after the successful landing of Surveyor VII on the moon's surface in January of 1968, a mission featuring the unmanned craft's being targeted by and then filming with its camera 2 argon lasers that were shined upon it from earth, astronomer C.O. Alley and others called for the placement of an LRRR either by Surveyor type craft or Apollo manned craft. Alley of course believed at the time that Apollo was genuine.
With Apollo in full swing, scientists like geologist Donald Beattie, a patriotic man himself, like Alley, totally buying in, were involved in the design and assessment of clever devices such as an LRRR that automatically read lunar coordinates when struck by laser light. Here's Beattie describing this;
"USGS had similar concerns but thought the biggest problem would be locating and documenting the sites visited, and in particular sampled, so that accurate traverse maps and profiles could be reconstructed back on Earth. The Flagstaff team had devised a surveying staff that would reflect a laser beam from a ranging device and automatically record the coordinates of a position on the lunar surface. This approach was based on the simulations and exercises we had been conducting for the post-Apollo missions, which suggested that without some type of surveying instrument it would be almost impossible for an astronaut to accurately locate his position on the Moon and associate a sample or observation with a specific point. Lunar geologic maps made without such positioning would be seriously degraded in value, since to establish map locations we would have to depend on some type of dead reckoning or coarse Earth-tracking and reconstruction of the traverse based on voice communication.2
Donald A. Beattie. Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program (Ebook Locations 1614-1619).
As attainment of the lunar surface was in fact not achievable, but given that the placement of such a device would provide just the ticket in terms of convincing people we really had landed, the device, an LRRR with or without the fancy coordinate identifier is launched from the Earth and finds its way to 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. The very rocket launched on 07/16/1969 may have carried this LRRR device.
The night of the landing, coordinates are passed to the Lick Observatory staff. The official narrative then features this schizophrenic feature of the semi-lost astronauts. If the Lick laser shoots even directly at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, the light bouncing back will not be caught because of the JPL programming problem. So the failure to record/film the laser from Lick can at least on the evening of 07/20/1969 be attributed to the mistaken sense that no one knew exactly where the LRRR was. The Lick laser may have been right on top of the LRRR, but since there was this bogus coordinate confusion, the "missing", at least that evening, would be chalked up to no one really knowing exactly where the thing was. So the Lick coordinates are good ones, and as we have seen, they are not "acquired legitimately". They are not calculated as they would have to have been were the thing real. In 12 days' time the JPL timing snag is figured out and the thing works when there is no Neil Armstrong around to film an anticipated/expected laser beam appearance. Publicly , no coordinates are passed to anyone with their own laser, own camera, or any potential to spoil the party(Russians, French, ?others). If word got out the LRRR was at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east, then outsiders targeting the laser, or photographing the site would not find what they would have expected were this a real landing. they may get photons back, but not see their laser on tv.
The astronauts deny stars for several reasons, not the least of which being, if you see stars, you see lasers, and bright ones, very bright ones at that. The moonscape photos appear as they do with never a hint of a laser bearing earth in the sky. I believe a couple pics have the Earth. Were this real, they would see and could photograph the laser at times, when the laser fired, just as Surveyor photographed much dimmer beams in 1968.
The semi lost Eagle is found on the morning of 07/21/1969 by honest Joe, honest David I should say, H. David Reed, with his clever reverse rendezvous radar solution, and the fraud is more or less complete.
Keep in mind, I have already demonstrated there was fraud without question by showing that coordinates of great accuracy were passed to the Lick Observatory staff before such coordinates were ever solved for, ever calculated. So we already have proven fraud. Presented here is a very probable scenario, though there are others, related scenarios, similar in sense that can be spun out of my general scheme presented here.
Adequate referencing has already been provided above in my previous posts. Detail will be added as we explore further and move forward along with much more in the way of referencing.
Pat
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