GodMark2
Master Poster
I Ratant
Penultimate Amazing
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Good.
Some numbers I can relate to.
Other locations say that Avon sales are down 3% a year, while they add 6% a year sales force.
Sounds pyramidy, to me.
If all you have to do is pay a modest annual membership and then hit the road selling stuff it's not really pyramidy.
If instead you have to recruit other people and take a cut of their membership and you make the majority of your money not from selling product but instead from membership, training materials and voicemail then it is like a pyramid scheme.
Adding sales force while having falling sales is not an issue in itself (though it does indicate a declining market).
Things that separate it from pyramids include:
- You don't have to buy inventory up-front
- There doesn't seem to be expensive optional, but not optional training courses
- There isn't a ongoing expensive subscription like voicemail
It seems that the worst case is that you could be out $20
icerat
Philosopher
Avon is a public company, so you can read their annual report rather than rely on web blogs.
First quarter revenues this year were up, with active reps actually down.
How does that sound pyramidy?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Well said.
I Ratant
Penultimate Amazing
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From a site promoting Avon, an enthusiast mentioned pulling in $500 a week... from 150 persons they had recruited. Pyramidy.
$3 a person sounds like chump change, for a lot of work.
I think there is a minimal financial risk to sign up, and then drop out. (ST will be one of those.) I was concerned about a large upfront financial obligation, with perhaps a legal contract to sell the product or pay a penalty.
$3 a person sounds like chump change, for a lot of work.
I think there is a minimal financial risk to sign up, and then drop out. (ST will be one of those.) I was concerned about a large upfront financial obligation, with perhaps a legal contract to sell the product or pay a penalty.
icerat
Philosopher
It's only "pyramidy" if the money is made through the actual recruiting, which it isn't.
No idea of the Avon compensation setup, but it was $500/week, not $500. Who knows how much total they may end up making from building that sales team.
You do have to be careful with things like autoshipping, which some direct sales companies sign you up on automatically. I don't think Avon does that, but a lot of responsibility in Avon goes through your local District Manager, and if they screw up it can cause problems. Ensure ST gets to know her DM and is comfortable with them and what system is in place for returning unsold products, handling cancelled orders etc.
That's just the legal loophole. The idea to recruit is so you can leverage downline volume. Obviously there is some reward for recruiting otherwise IBOs, whether it's Avon or Amway, would focus on selling.
Why does Amway have recruitment meetings practically every week, and additionally, having smaller home or one on one meetings? They need to recruit. Even though there's no direct cppmpensation for it, there is the hope that the new recruit will buy products and tools.
Your failure to understand this is mystifying.
Please provide a link because this is contrary to my understanding of how Avon works.
Tatyana
Illuminator
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It looks like Avon may have changed their marketing strategy:
http://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/
Here is the complaint of one person:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/avon-products-c118733.html
http://pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/
Here is the complaint of one person:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/avon-products-c118733.html
joobie
i don't care
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i used to work with a guy who drove his wife's mary kay car to work all the time. they're not that bright pink any more - it was a pearlescent off-white color.
icerat
Philosopher
PSA is not a credible source, I wouldn't stress about anything Fitzpatrick says.
Individual complaints are good sources for learning about potential pitfalls, but when you're talking about a business involving some 5 million people, not necessarily a good place to start extrapolating from.
xjx388
Penultimate Amazing
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Avon is certainly "pyramidy", but I think it's a little more benign than other MLM schemes like Amway, Herbalife, et. al. I don't believe Avon sells "Business support materials," makes their reps attend "motivational seminars," etc. IOW, there seems to be a lot less abuse in the Avon system.
My mom sold Avon for many years and, although she never really made any "real" money, she had fun with it and it became a social outlet for her. She never bothered with the recruiting, just sales to her friends. Her upline rep told her that if she wanted to make more money, she needed to recruit but my mom was never into that side of it. My wife's friend also sells Avon and she has asked my wife to sell as well under her, but it was never a big deal when my wife said "no."
So, in my experience, selling Avon is mostly benign and free of the abuses that occur in other MLM schemes. But getting involved in the "pyramidy" aspects is probably a bad idea because the model is ultimately unsustainable. In any case, ST shouldn't expect to make a lot of money doing it. If it's a social/fun/hobby thing, then I don't see the harm in trying it, but I don't think it will replace or even significantly supplement an income for most people. My overall inclination is to avoid MLM entirely, but YMMV.
My mom sold Avon for many years and, although she never really made any "real" money, she had fun with it and it became a social outlet for her. She never bothered with the recruiting, just sales to her friends. Her upline rep told her that if she wanted to make more money, she needed to recruit but my mom was never into that side of it. My wife's friend also sells Avon and she has asked my wife to sell as well under her, but it was never a big deal when my wife said "no."
So, in my experience, selling Avon is mostly benign and free of the abuses that occur in other MLM schemes. But getting involved in the "pyramidy" aspects is probably a bad idea because the model is ultimately unsustainable. In any case, ST shouldn't expect to make a lot of money doing it. If it's a social/fun/hobby thing, then I don't see the harm in trying it, but I don't think it will replace or even significantly supplement an income for most people. My overall inclination is to avoid MLM entirely, but YMMV.
icerat
Philosopher
Neither does Amway or Herbalife, it's a myth to think they do.
Now, Herbalife offers corporate run "motivational seminars" (example], which have a associated cost, but they're not compulsory and most reps don't attend.
Amway US has few seminars outside top leadership, and they're usually free when they do host them. Amway in some other countries, such as the UK, is host for various monthly seminars.
Avon also has it's own corporate run seminars (example), but many Amway and Avon reps (example) can take advantage of (paid) seminars and offerings from 3rd party companies and trainers specifically for their businesses, or more generic network marketing training.
In none of the three companies are these compulsory (ie "makes their reps attend"), and in all three companies the vast majority of registered reps do not attend them.
But Amway has leech organizations such as NETWORK 21 who sells seminars and other tools. Even though Amway doesn't sell them doesn't mean the Amway IBOs aren't the targets of the tool scam.
xjx388
Penultimate Amazing
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Yes, that's it exactly. Avon doesn't seem to have these organizations that leech off "Avon ladies." Avon doesn't certify these leech organizations like Amway does. While Avon might have meetings and such, it isn't a huge part of the experience.