Is Islam an evil religion?

[A'isha]

I don't give a rat's ass what you turn just the other way towards Christians. That is completely irrelevant to me.

How did you ever get the screwy idea that I'm a Christian, or care in the least what you say about their beliefs?

The fact that you complain about "Christianity-bashing" more than even DOC does might have something to do with that.

 

[Toontown]

Gee, it's almost eerily like this is an incredibly complex issue that can't be boiled down to simple, black-and-white trite soundbite explanations.

Gee, it's almost eerily as if one of the issues you are comparing is "real" and made of quantumstuff, while the other is entirely mythical, made of ancient brain farts.

 

[Toontown]

The fact that you complain about "Christianity-bashing" more than even DOC does might have something to do with that.

I don't like a lot of cowardly, politically correct Christian-bashing in Muslim-bashing threads. By Gawd, I want Muslim-bashing in Muslim-bashing threads.

 

[Lowpro]

I don't give a rat's ass what you turn just the other way towards Christians. That is completely irrelevant to me.

How did you ever get the screwy idea that I'm a Christian, or care in the least what you say about their beliefs?

Somehow I had the idea that you wanted to try and prove your argument to be valid, but it seems that you're fine with being wrong (and looking dumb while doing it too)

"Islam is for Muslims, and muslims kill people!"
"The Muslims I know do not kill people"
"Then they aren't true Muslims"

Notice, this can also be a conversation between two Muslims

 

[A'isha]

Gee, it's almost eerily as if one of the issues you are comparing is "real" and made of quantumstuff, while the other is entirely mythical, made of ancient brain farts.

Um, I'm not comparing anything. You're the one that went on the quantum tangent, not me.

I don't like a lot of cowardly, politically correct Christian-bashing in Muslim-bashing threads. By Gawd, I want Muslim-bashing in Muslim-bashing threads.

You should read Dr. Ali's books, then. Especially her latest.

 

[Dayan81]

Is Islam an evil religion?

Yes. But so are many other faiths of the world, like Christianity & Judaism.

 

[bikerdruid]

Is Islam an evil religion?

Yes. But so are many other faiths of the world, like Christianity & Judaism.

the three abrahamics do indeed seem to be the most troublesome, by far.

 

[Toontown]

Somehow I had the idea that you wanted to try and prove your argument to be valid, but it seems that you're fine with being wrong (and looking dumb while doing it too)

You seem to be suffering multiple screwy-idea attacks.

"Islam is for Muslims, and muslims kill people!"
"The Muslims I know do not kill people"
"Then they aren't true Muslims"

I see what your problem is now. That 's not my argument. That's just something you plucked out of thin air, possibly the residue of some other argument you had with someone else.

My (observation) was more along the lines of denying that any of them are True Muslims if they have diametrically opposed beliefs. Not arguing that the killer is a True Muslim and the other isn't. I simply posed the question "does Islam even exist?", and I even posed it in plain English, in the vain hope that even the most wanton word-twister would hesitate to be so obvious as to try to twist it around into a "no True Scotsman" argument. But you apparently have no shame.

 

[FireGarden]

I'm certain I would also have trouble engaging seriously with a witch doctor expert about the relative merits of various witch doctors. But that hardly means I can't comfortably dismiss the lot of them as candidates to become my personal physician.

Sometimes you really don't need to know that much.

Feel free to not believe in any religion. Even make false claims about the religions. Just don't be surprised when you get something wrong and someone corrects you.

Gee, it's almost eerily like this is an incredibly complex issue that can't be boiled down to simple, black-and-white trite soundbite explanations.

If only someone had warned us!

My (observation) was more along the lines of denying that any of them are True Muslims if they have diametrically opposed beliefs.

"You always become what you hate" or mock or mildly dislike, whatever.

Welcome to the club! Pleasure to have you aboard. Nice to hear we're singing from the same hymn sheet at last.

 

[A'isha]

A Muslim is someone who has recited the shahada. If you assume that they follow the other Pillars as well, you're probably on safe ground.

Beyond that, things get a tad bit fuzzy. And there are still issues even with the above...Shi'tes add a line to the shahada that Sunnis don't have, for instance.

 

[tsig]

Aside from the "same books" thing, yes, if you aren't interested in learning about a topic, you're free to talk about it all you want, but you're going to have trouble engaging seriously on that topic with people who have bothered to learn about it. Just like someone who never studied biology and evolution is free to expound on what they see around them and what they think that means in relation to those subjects, but anyone who has seriously studied those subjects will have a hard time taking their arguments seriously.



They're only representative of those who hold those beliefs.



True. It's also full of Muslims who didn't, as well as a very large number of Christians who both have and have not done the same. And don't get me started on Hinduism and Shinto.

Now, the question is, what does any of that have to do with what each of those religions really teach, or who gets to speak in the name of their co-religionists, or what you can say about the beliefs of any given group saying they're members of that religion, just because they're members.

For instance, Ahmadis are Muslims. Without looking them up can you describe their beliefs?

So you're the absolute authority on what Islam means?

 

[bikerdruid]

So you're the absolute authority on what Islam means?

she seems to be, in this forum at least.
i pay attention.
it's cool to learn ****.

 

[tsig]

A Muslim is someone who has recited the shahada. If you assume that they follow the other Pillars as well, you're probably on safe ground.

Beyond that, things get a tad bit fuzzy. And there are still issues even with the above...Shi'tes add a line to the shahada that Sunnis don't have, for instance.

delete

 

[A'isha]

So you're the absolute authority on what Islam means?

Of course not. Have you been reading anything I've been saying?

 

[Lowpro]

Agreed, delete

 

[A'isha]

As the explosive blasts thru my body I'll try to figure out exactly what branch of Islam motivated the bomber.

You'll win the Randi Challenge before you get blown up by an Islamic terrorist.

 

[tsig]

Of course not. Have you been reading anything I've been saying?

Why yes I have that's why I asked the question. You post as if everyone has to accept your interpretation of Islam.

 

[tsig]

You'll win the Randi Challenge before you get blown up by an Islamic terrorist.

Apparently you know more about Islam than those that die for it.

 

[A'isha]

Why yes I have that's why I asked the question. You post as if everyone has to accept your interpretation of Islam.

No, I post to highlight the diversity of interpretations of Islam. All the quotes and citations, containing both moderate and extremist interpretations of Islam, have been from actual Muslims themselves. Unlike, for instance, Bill's citations.

Apparently you know more about Islam than those that die for it.

Considering most victims of Muslim terrorists are other Muslims, I tend to doubt that very highly.

 

[Craig B]

Let us consider, and then admire, an earlier view of the relationship between the holy scriptures of a religion, and the attitude we should adopt towards its adherents. Here is the great American freethinker R G Ingersoll (1833-99), discussing Judaism, and Jews.

For many years I have regarded the Pentateuch simply as a record of a barbarous people, in which are found a great number of the ceremonies of savagery, many absurd and unjust laws, and thousands of ideas inconsistent with known and demonstrated facts. To me it seemed almost a crime to teach that this record was written by inspired men ; that slavery, polygamy, wars of conquest and extermination were right, and that there was a time when men could win the approbation of infinite Intelligence, Justice, and Mercy, by violating maidens and by butchering babes. To me it seemed more reasonable that savage men had made these laws.

(Some Mistakes of Moses)

Does he then go on to say, we have to condemn the Jews, because this is the behaviour their religion requires of them, and if (as observed) most Jews don't behave like this, then they can't be real Jews, or they're hiding their true beliefs? No, what he says about real Jews is this:

Some of the best people I have ever known are Jews, and some of the worst people I have known are Christians. The Christians were not bad simply because they were Christians, neither were the Jews good because they were Jews. A man is far above these badges of faith and race. Good Jews are precisely the same as good Christians, and bad Christians are wonderfully like bad Jews.

Personally, I have either no prejudices about religion, or I have equal prejudice against all religions. The consequence is that I judge of people not by their creeds, not by their rites, not by their mummeries, but by their actions. ...

The Jewish people should outgrow their own superstitions. It is time for them to throw away the idea of inspiration. The intelligent Jew of to-day knows that the Old Testament was written by barbarians, and he knows that the rites and ceremonies are simply absurd. He knows that no intelligent man should care anything about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, three dead barbarians. In other words, the Jewish people should leave their superstition and rely on science and philosophy. The Christian should do the same. ...

When the Christian throws away his cruel and heartless superstitions, and when the Jew throws away his, then they can meet as man to man. In the meantime, the world will go on in its blundering way, and I shall know and feel that everybody does as he must, and that the Christian, to the extent that he is prejudiced, is prejudiced by reason of his ignorance, and that consequently the great lever with which to raise all mankind into the sunshine of philosophy, is intelligence.

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/jews.html