Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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C'mon pat! You went on & on about your 4 question challenge & now you are dodging just 2!
 
Patrick1000 said:
If I show there was foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, FRAUD is a given and we can puzzle out the what about this and that later. If I prove foreknowledge, I have proven FRAUD. That is the beauty of this. It is a deadly approach to this problem because foreknowledge equates with the rocks not having been collected by Armstrong. It equates with a proof that the pictures are bogus. If I prove foreknowledge, you cannot take that away from me, nor take away every other thing which it implies, and it indirectly , though most definitely proves FRAUD. If there is foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, the Apollo 11 Mission must be phony for knowing those numbers is otherwise impossible.
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Yet they went there. Of course they had 'foreknowledge' they planned to land at certain point. You've proved you're a nut actually. The beauty of it is that you've wasted a portion of your life trying to twist trivia into disproving something that actually happened by focusing on something that won't disprove it.

Are you saying that NASA had no idea where they were trying to land? LOL

you cannot take that away from me
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Taken away and stomped on while you watch, twice. I invite others to stomp on it too.

To more important things

What sort of pepper do you use in the salad, white or black?

Oh and please continue to lie about the plane - I mean it always helps to lie- doesn't it?
 
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If the recipe is for "crab" salad, then yellow mustard, but if it's for "krab" salad then I'd use brown mustard and a touch (just a touch!) of horseradish.

But that's just me.

If I show there was foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, FRAUD is a given and we can puzzle out the what about this and that later.
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Well, so far you've successfully failed to prove there was actual foreknowledge. Congratulations would have been in order. But without proof that the coordinates of the actual landing site were actually provided on the actual night of landing at a time actually before the landing happened, then I'm not convinced.

But that's just me.
 
Patrick1000 said:
If I show there was foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, FRAUD is a given and we can puzzle out the what about this and that later. If I prove foreknowledge, I have proven FRAUD. That is the beauty of this. It is a deadly approach to this problem because foreknowledge equates with the rocks not having been collected by Armstrong. It equates with a proof that the pictures are bogus. If I prove foreknowledge, you cannot take that away from me, nor take away every other thing which it implies, and it indirectly , though most definitely proves FRAUD. If there is foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, the Apollo 11 Mission must be phony for knowing those numbers is otherwise impossible.
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So now NASA & Armstrong had no idea where they were going to land?
 
Redtail said:
So now NASA & Armstrong had no idea where they were going to land?
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yep that seems to be his point, all those recce photos and years of work taking into considering myriad of details were a complete waste of time and the astronauts just put her down where-ever.
 
drewid said:
That plane is really late now. I hope you get some sort of discount.
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I'm also curious about the apparent inability to post here while he's in India, yet being able to post during his layover in Europe. I'm pretty sure India has Internet access and cyber cafés. I'm also pretty sure that if he won't have time to access the Internet over there due to his work, and because of his prolific posting over here, then he must not be working currently.
 
Well, if the pilots of his plane know where they are landing before they actually do it then his flight is a fraud.
 
Patrick1000 said:
Last point, this bogus photo method hardly applies as we are talking about coordinates in the DSKY after just touching down and the coordinates given to the Lick Observatory staff well before photo analysis was complete. Indeed , as well referenced above, Donald Beattie commented in his very good book, TAKING SCIENCE TO THE MOON", that the photo analysis was not complete until after the astronauts returned to earth. Again I quote with respect to the photo analysis issue from Beattie's book;

"This latter operation was not as easy as we expected, since the exact location of the landing site was not immediately known. Mike Collins had attempted unsuccessfully to locate the LM from orbit using the command module sextant. After analyzing the flight data and the RETURNED photographs, we passed our best estimate to the LRRR PIs, and the LRRR was found on August 1, 1969, by the Lick Observatory in California."

Donald A. Beattie. Taking Science to the Moon: Lunar Experiments and the Apollo Program (ebook Locations 2912-2915). I capitalized "RETURNED"

So the photo determined method does not even apply here Matt. It was complete after the astronauts returned AND the launch trajectory specialist says per his own account none of the numbers in that Mission Report were within 5 miles of his. I believe Reed as he had no reason to lie. his testimony is supported by the numerous claims, well documented, of a lack of precise knowledge with respect to the astronauts location while they were on the surface of the moon.


So you still have a problem because per NASA's own account, the photo data was not available until after the astronauts returned and so is not available to you Matt as an answer.
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The plane! The plane!
 
Patrick1000 said:
If I show there was foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, FRAUD is a given and we can puzzle out the what about this and that later. If I prove foreknowledge, I have proven FRAUD. That is the beauty of this. It is a deadly approach to this problem because foreknowledge equates with the rocks not having been collected by Armstrong. It equates with a proof that the pictures are bogus. If I prove foreknowledge, you cannot take that away from me, nor take away every other thing which it implies, and it indirectly , though most definitely proves FRAUD. If there is foreknowledge of the Eagle's landing site, the Apollo 11 Mission must be phony for knowing those numbers is otherwise impossible.
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If it was all scripted then why would everybody know the coordinates?
 
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Patrick1000 said:
OH Red tail, you'll make me late for my flight. But since you insist. Why don't I make things less complicated for you guys, kiwi was going to fly out of town and interview Remington Stone to see if he had Alzheimers? This will save you the trip kiwi.

Please review Flight international Magazine from 21 August 1969, the article is THE EAGLE'S ROOST by Angus MacPherson, page 302 halfway down;

"The last reading given on the Eagle DSKY(display keyboard) before touchdown was Lat 0 41' 15" N and Long 23 26' 00 " E. This compared with the centre of the landing ellipse of Site 2 (12.2 miles long by 3.1 miles wide) at 00 42' 50" N; 23 42' 28" E. Finally cleared up by lunar scientists pinpointing from the film of the descent which Apollo 11 brought back, it is now given a lunar map reference of 520m west and 115m north of the centre of West Crater."

And you fellas thought I was bluffing. AND I got more. Would seem we got a report here of Armstrong with the coordinates well before Michael Collins started his bogus little sextant charade, well before poor FIDO David Reed started in with his difficult morning , what about 18 hours after this? Why didn't Armstrong just give the coordinates to Reed, would have saved the poor sap a lot of time?

My oh my, how they do do lie, and all the important people Macpherson talked to in researching for this article. I am sure Angus Macpherson didn't make this up. Wonder what NASA source fed him that bit CONFIRMING FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE LANDING COORDINATES?

You boys better hope I am going out of town, keeps your bogus little Apollo story afloat for a tad more, though I suspect, this little factoid here might be enough to topple things. Wouldn't ya' say? Pretty dang incriminating ain't it? Feel free to say UNCLE! any time, and last of all, never knew "fattydash" to write like this. That said, might not be a bad idea for you guys to go run off and cry to JAY UTAH and tell him how fattydash or Jarrah White or whoever I am is beating up on you.

My curry awaits. BYE!!!!!!
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Note the bolded part. I do not believe you understand what it means.
 
drewid said:
That plane is really late now. I hope you get some sort of discount.
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I don't know the flight number but I can guess at the name of the airline. It's "Unable-to-register-a-new-identity-with-this-forum-at-the-current-time Airlines."
 
Guess who!!!!

GUESS WHO????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knew you kids would be happy to hear from me one more time. I won't bore you with the details, but almost had to stay another day and not leave 'til tomorrow, but that's all changed. DANG!!!

Still thought , what the who?, may as well drop another one on my ol' buddie RAF cuz' he never gets beaten up you know. Ya' post him and then nothing more happens than rocket fuel exhaust comes blasting out of his earballs. You can smell it all the way over here in my parts. Matter of fact, that's how I know RAF got my post, ya' can smell the rocket smoke. Pretty cool eh?!

Since Matt spent so much time on the coordinate thing, really did , want to applaud that, would like to share a couple other juicy little morsels floating about in Apollo 11's fetid cislunar realm.

Check this out Matt, from the voice transcript;

Time: 14 16 34 06

CC This is Houston. Go ahead. Over.

CMP Roger. I can't see them. (COLUMBIA)

CC Roger. I guess that takes care of the news for today, Mike.

CMP All right. Roger. (COLUMBIA)

CC /You might be interested in knowing, Mike, that we have gotten reflections back from the laser reflector ray they deployed, and we may be able to get some information out of that a little later.

CMP Roger. I need a very precise position, because (COLUMBIA) I can only do a decent job of scanning maybe one
of those grid squares at a time. The area that we've been sweeping covers 10's and 20's and 30's
of them.

CC Roger. We understand. This is intended to be
your last P22. We don't want to use up too much fuel in this effort. Over.

CMP Roger. How's the fuel coming (COLUMBIA)

CC Roger. There's no problem fuel-wise. It's Just that there seems to be a limit to the number of
P22's and the number of grid squares you can search over.

Boy, they got the laser thing working there, you'd think they'd tell Collins where it is; 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. I mean it's not like you gotta' hide it from the guy. Or if they're using other coordinates for the LRRR, why don't they spit those out. Hmmmmmmmmmm something is rotten in cislunar space.

Here's another good one Matt, from a little later on in the flight. Would seem they got off the moon and they still don't know where they are.

Time 06 07 33 52
CDR Go ahead.

CC Go ahead, Houston.
CC Roger. For 64 thousand dollars, we're still trying to work out the location of your landing site, Tranquility Base. We think it is located on LAM-2 chart at Juliet 0.5 and 7.8. Do you still have those charts on board? Over.
CDR Yes. Stand by one. They're packed.
CC Roger. You may not have to unpack it. The position which I just gave you is slightly west of West Crater. I guess it's about two-tenths
of a kilometer west of it, and we were wondering if Neil or Buzz had observed any additional land- marks during descent, lunar stay, or ascent which would confirm or disprove this. One thing that we're wondering about is that if you were at this position, you would have seen the Cat's Paw during ascent just up to the north of your track. Over.
CDR We were looking for the Cat's Paw, too, thinking we were probably downrange, beyond the Big V.
But I think that it's likely that that might have been West Crater that we went across in landing, but - Stand by.
CDR We're hoping, Bruce, that our 16-mm film was working at that point in descent, and we'll be able to confirm our touchdown position. We thought that during ascent we might be able to pick up some recognizable objects close to the landing site, and we did see a number of small craters, and crater rows, and things like that, which we may be able to pick out after the fact, but we haven't been able to yet.

And here Matt went to all that trouble to try and prove when the brothers bogus were on the moon the exact coordinates were known. Here our boys are long long after their lunar jaunt, and still the location is the "64 thousand dollar question". More like the $130,000,000,000 question, wasn't that what my ma' paid for this bad film? Rip off!
And lookie lookie lookie lookie here, all those fancy numbers in the Mission report, so close to one another, ostensibly so accurate. Where'd they get those from , if they got any of them in real time with the exception of Reed and his rendezvous radar? That was straight up, but given what's going on here with our "64,000" errrrr , I mean "$130,000,000,000 question", looks like those numbers in the Mission Report were made up now weren't they? You know, made up after the bogus brothers splashed down in a bath tub some where on Waikiki.

Boy is this interesting.

There it is , I smell that rocket smoke , coming right out of RAF's earballs.

Too bad I won't have access to this in Delhi. I do declare, today has been the finest day of my HB career. I believe I have those "Apollo Truthers" on the run.

Burden of proof falls to you fellas now. I want to see good book reports when I get back. Prove me wrong about the foreknowledge business. Rocks don't count. Foreknowledge is FRAUD baby, we'll deal with the rock after the house of cards caves.


Zoom zoom zoom, I'm off!
 
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I can't be the only one to have noticed a very obvious decline in Patrick1000's maturity, spelling, grammar, and post formatting. Is this how his comedic meltdowns start?
 
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Admittedly the jokes are bad

Cl1mh4224rd said:
I can't be the only one to have noticed a very obvious decline in Patrick1000's maturity, spelling, grammar, and post formatting. Is this how his comedic meltdowns start?
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Admittedly the jokes are bad, but the analysis is KILLER KILLER KILLER! Check the points bro., ignore the dumb jokes. Any response to the points, the laser is working? Still LOST in space coming home? what about the Mission Report? Best, sorry, the jokes were dumb, best I could do late in the day and heading out. PAt
 
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Still we have the LM on the Moon while you're lying about going to Delhi.

In the crab salad how much lemon juice? TBSP or just a wise squeeze of a good sized one
 
Patrick1000 said:
GUESS WHO????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knew you kids would be happy to hear from me one more time. I won't bore you with the details, but almost had to stay another day and not leave 'til tomorrow, but that's all changed. DANG!!!

Still thought , what the who?, may as well drop another one on my ol' buddie RAF cuz' he never gets beaten up you know. Ya' post him and then nothing more happens than rocket fuel exhaust comes blasting out of his earballs. You can smell it all the way over here in my parts. Matter of fact, that's how I know RAF got my post, ya' can smell the rocket smoke. Pretty cool eh?!

Since Matt spent so much time on the coordinate thing, really did , want to applaud that, would like to share a couple other juicy little morsels floating about in Apollo 11's fetid cislunar realm.

Check this out Matt, from the voice transcript;

Time: 14 16 34 06

CC This is Houston. Go ahead. Over.

CMP Roger. I can't see them. (COLUMBIA)

CC Roger. I guess that takes care of the news for today, Mike.

CMP All right. Roger. (COLUMBIA)

CC /You might be interested in knowing, Mike, that we have gotten reflections back from the laser reflector ray they deployed, and we may be able to get some information out of that a little later.

CMP Roger. I need a very precise position, because (COLUMBIA) I can only do a decent job of scanning maybe one
of those grid squares at a time. The area that we've been sweeping covers 10's and 20's and 30's
of them.

CC Roger. We understand. This is intended to be
your last P22. We don't want to use up too much fuel in this effort. Over.

CMP Roger. How's the fuel coming (COLUMBIA)

CC Roger. There's no problem fuel-wise. It's Just that there seems to be a limit to the number of
P22's and the number of grid squares you can search over.

Boy, they got the laser thing working there, you'd think they'd tell Collins where it is; 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. I mean it's not like you gotta' hide it from the guy. Or if they're using other coordinates for the LRRR, why don't they spit those out. Hmmmmmmmmmm something is rotten in cislunar space.

Here's another good one Matt, from a little later on in the flight. Would seem they got off the moon and they still don't know where they are.

Time 06 07 33 52
CDR Go ahead.

CC Go ahead, Houston.
CC Roger. For 64 thousand dollars, we're still trying to work out the location of your landing site, Tranquility Base. We think it is located on LAM-2 chart at Juliet 0.5 and 7.8. Do you still have those charts on board? Over.
CDR Yes. Stand by one. They're packed.
CC Roger. You may not have to unpack it. The position which I just gave you is slightly west of West Crater. I guess it's about two-tenths
of a kilometer west of it, and we were wondering if Neil or Buzz had observed any additional land- marks during descent, lunar stay, or ascent which would confirm or disprove this. One thing that we're wondering about is that if you were at this position, you would have seen the Cat's Paw during ascent just up to the north of your track. Over.
CDR We were looking for the Cat's Paw, too, thinking we were probably downrange, beyond the Big V.
But I think that it's likely that that might have been West Crater that we went across in landing, but - Stand by.
CDR We're hoping, Bruce, that our 16-mm film was working at that point in descent, and we'll be able to confirm our touchdown position. We thought that during ascent we might be able to pick up some recognizable objects close to the landing site, and we did see a number of small craters, and crater rows, and things like that, which we may be able to pick out after the fact, but we haven't been able to yet.

And here Matt went to all that trouble to try and prove when the brothers bogus were on the moon the exact coordinates were known. Here our boys are long long after their lunar jaunt, and still the location is the "64 thousand dollar question". More like the $130,000,000,000 question, wasn't that what my ma' paid for this bad film? Rip off!
And lookie lookie lookie lookie here, all those fancy numbers in the Mission report, so close to one another, ostensibly so accurate. Where'd they get those from , if they got any of them in real time with the exception of Reed and his rendezvous radar? That was straight up, but given what's going on here with our "64,000" errrrr , I mean "$130,000,000,000 question", looks like those numbers in the Mission Report were made up now weren't they? You know, made up after the bogus brothers splashed down in a bath tub some where on Waikiki.

Boy is this interesting.

There it is , I smell that rocket smoke , coming right out of RAF's earballs.

Too bad I won't have access to this in Delhi. I do declare, today has been the finest day of my HB career. I believe I have those "Apollo Truthers" on the run.

Burden of proof falls to you fellas now. I want to see good book reports when I get back. Prove me wrong about the foreknowledge business. Rocks don't count. Foreknowledge is FRAUD baby, we'll deal with the rock after the house of cards caves.


Zoom zoom zoom, I'm off!
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Still no answer.
 
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