Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Jrrarglblarg]

The Point Jack is not that it is stinky, <snip the drivel>

Given the circumstances (Borman had taken 2 Seconol, they had been quarantined, they were in zero gravity. . .) the flight docs would have a pretty good guess that any gastrointestinal malfunctions are likely to have prosaic origins.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Same for you Apollo, not sure what the aim would be in terms of "getting over" on the group by "sneaking" the same message in there twice. I think the first iteration sat in the machine for over an hour. not that it matters. did you try my challenge at all Apollo?

I don't think you're being sneaky to us, I think you're being sneaky at work and typing these on a smartphone in the walk-in.

Maybe I'm wrong. But your posting style is highly similar to other people I've communicated with who use phones and crackberries -- lack of tags, no url posts in particular.

 

[Erock]

Darn straight, buddy. Young people now are used to unpublicized launches of smaller rockets to deliver small payloads to low earth orbit, totally forgetting/not knowing that delivering packages to the moon required a much larger vehicle.

There are only a couple of places to launch these things. People are gonna notice.

This is why I asked him to clarify how the laser 'got there'. Tbh, I was expecting the old Apollo 11 was unmanned jive, and they needed time to place the laser and locate it, so 'faked the overfly'. But that didn't work either because the same issue applies. They had the correct position of Eagle.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The Point Jack is not that it is stinky, but that they could get very sick were the diarrhea due to say salmonella, or even a virus.

Tell us about the symptoms Boorman would have been displaying if his sudden bout of vomiting and diahorrea had been due to salmonella. Perhaps with your medical expertise you could say how far into the flight you would have expected this to occur, presuming the infection occurred before launch.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

As for your "challenge," no. I'm not going on wumpus hunt for a random factoid that proves or disproves absolutely nothing.

The rocks and soil are clearly lunar in origin. Unmanned Soviet missions brought back thimblefuls of soil, minuscule compared to the 1 kilogram "contingency" sample Armstrong grabbed the moment he was down off the ladder. The US and USSR exchanged samples and each verified that the other's soil matched.

Baysinger monitored communications between Armstrong on the surface of the moon and Collins in orbit using a highly directional antenna.

Your poopy space capsule went around the moon and took photographs of earth. Photographs from many missions have been compared to weather photos of earth here http://apollohoax.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theories&action=display&thread=3132 and found to be an identical match.

Pictures were taken of Earth from the moon at the times claimed.

Rocks from the moon have been studied by geologists around the world.

Radio communications were monitored by random civilians on more than one occasion.

Your poopy theory is poopy.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Tell us about the symptoms Boorman would have been displaying if his sudden bout of vomiting and diahorrea had been due to salmonella. Perhaps with your medical expertise you could say how far into the flight you would have expected this to occur, presuming the infection occurred before launch.

I'm pretty sure McU teaches about salmonella, as it causes many cases of restaurant food poisoning.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

. . . So no one tells them to wash their hands even which is the most important thing to do. . . ..

Yeah. 'cuz astronauts only do stuff if they have a checklist, right? So they'd need to send up an a13 style emergency procedure developed on teh ground? No trusting that guys are gonna do something common sense using the materials on hand?

 

[uk_dave]

Last comment, forget about detail, forget about hoax UK, ask yourself if the medicine, the evaluation and response seems appropriate. Leave the hoax stuff, let's grant it is 100% real. What do you thionk of the "care" by the flight surgeons?

Again, I think you miss the point.

You believe it's a hoax because people haven't behaved the way you believe they would have behaved if the story were true.

You're apparently convinced of this and seem to have trouble understanding why others aren't.

But, the problem is, we're to believe that a very sophisticated hoax which has fooled the world for over 40 years can be exposed simply by questioning how people reacted to poop in the capsule or dodgy displays or problems locating the lander.

Questions which none of the main players at the time raised (are they in on it or incompetent or....... what?) and similarly were not picked up by anyone else until you came along.

Gosh, I'm in awe of you Patrick. For you to be able to see things which have remained unhidden all this time; for you to have the tenacity to read the readily available documents despite absolutely no attempts to stop you; and for you to be able to draw conclusions which none of the experts at the time thought could either blow the hoax wide open, or just weren't important enough to have any impact on the missions, it's all just....... amazing.

 

[sts60]

The computer I use here at work does weird stuff at times. I believe it was "stuck" and very slow when that happened.

Yet it managed to post a different message in between, before a copy of that previous message was posted. A subtle fault indeed. Perhaps you should have your brainstrust take a look at it.

On another board, fattydash/Patrick1000/DoctorTea/etc. had said his computer was interfered with just as he was about to blow the whole thing wide open; this claim was retracted after widespread ridicule ensued. Of course, he also said he was a doctor working at night; I guess he likes to hang around the hospital during the day, too, continuing to enlighten the masses¹ ("they all [come around], eventually") by posting furiously² while saving lives.

It's not really germane to his inability to understand how spaceflight works, but it's illustrative as to how hard it is to keep your story straight when you're making stuff up. Especially while insisting on perfect consistency from your target no matter what the context - the hallmark of the cargo-cult historian.


¹Well, his brother, anyway.

²265 posts in about 5-1/2 days, after lurking a while after joining - oddly enough, right after Fattydash & Sockpuppet Co. were banned from apollohoax for TOS violations. I don't give a flip how much other people post, it's their time, but it's kinda funny.

 

[abaddon]

This is a duplicate of your post #521, so, er

Three times over a period of hours. Not your usual run of the mill double or triple post. Those tend to be within seconds.

First at 5:10am
Second at 5:49am
Third at 7:03am BUT he posted at 5:52am on a different matter.

So that kind of rules out accident, don't you think?

One is left with a very simple choice. Either
A. pat/fatty/various chess derived names is totally inept at using the internet

or

B. It is entirely deliberate.

Case in point, the inability/refusal to use the quote function, costing genuine members lots of time to figure out which post he is on about.

He has been politely asked to use it several times in this very thread, and has even agreed to do so in this very thread. Still he steadfastly does not.

Deliberate obfuscation/trolling if you ask me.

 

[abaddon]

The computer I use here at work does weird stuff at times. I believe it was "stuck" and very slow when that happened.

Yeah, stuck for a whole 2 hours.

How plausible (NOT)

 

[X]

Patrick: I did a little digging, and found a nice account of the operations at Lick from one of the scientists working there and doing the LRR experiment in July and August of 1969.

PDF link

The astronauts soon determined their precise location on the moon and radioed that information to Mission Control in Houston. Later that evening, Joe Wampler spoke with Mission Control to obtain the coordinates for the actual landing site.

It turned out that the co-ordinates they had were still wrong, because Wampler had misheard "15" as "50", due to the Mission Control person's "thick Texan drawl".

That, and a few days to figure out a time-delay discrepancy (turns out that the LRRR is precise and accurate, a distinction I note you've failed to understand) meant that the LRRR was not successfully detected until August 1, 1969.

Interesting story about measuring the distance between 2 telescopes using the LRRR aside, the fact that Lick obtained their information from Mission Control after the astronauts themselves relayed that information proves that Lick did not have advance knowledge.

 

[Patrick1000]

Have not carried a phone in literally over a week ApolloG

 

[abaddon]

The Point Jack is not that it is stinky, but that they could get very sick were the diarrhea due to say salmonella, or even a virus. So no one tells them to wash their hands even which is the most important thing to do. this is just scratching the surface. Abort is not necessarily the right option, though I would have voted for that. But abort or not is very much NOT the issue at hand. The question is, do the astronauts behave in such a way as one would expect were Borman to have had diarrhea in the cabin? the answer is no. so we can comfortably assume the doctors did not do their job. now either they are incompetent, which is very unlikely given this is supposed to be a big important project , so they sure wouldn't hire crumy docs, or it may all be feigned. the latter is more likely in my mind.

Do you have kids?

I do, and they have had a variety of nasty illnesses over time, as kids do.

When they vomited or had "dire rear", or any other ailment entailing emissions of various sorts, I didn't call 999 to wheel out the decontamination units, I cleaned it up like any normal person would.

Did I suffer any ill effects from this? Nope.

In fact most parents I know have had the same experience, nay ALL parents I know have had this experience.

But in your fantasy, Borman is somehow different from the rest of humanity, being so virulent as to threaten the lives of the other astronauts.

And you claim to be a doctor/scientist/matematician/physicist/nightclub bouncer or whatever? Give me a break.

 

[abaddon]

Yet it managed to post a different message in between, before a copy of that previous message was posted. A subtle fault indeed. Perhaps you should have your brainstrust take a look at it.

Indeed.

I didn't think it possible, but his cred went even lower.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Do you have kids?

I do, and they have had a variety of nasty illnesses over time, as kids do.

When they vomited or had "dire rear", or any other ailment entailing emissions of various sorts, I didn't call 999 to wheel out the decontamination units, I cleaned it up like any normal person would.

Did I suffer any ill effects from this? Nope.

In fact most parents I know have had the same experience, nay ALL parents I know have had this experience.

But in your fantasy, Borman is somehow different from the rest of humanity, being so virulent as to threaten the lives of the other astronauts.

And you claim to be a doctor/scientist/matematician/physicist/nightclub bouncer or whatever? Give me a break.

My kids each slept in "the big bed" with my wife and I when they were tiny. I've been barfed on repeatedly in the same night. One time I had two different kids sick at the same time, one barfing in my bed and the other barfing from the top bunk all over the bottom bunk. I think I did 9 loads of laundry before dawn over that one.

Anyway, astronauts were used to this kinda junk, as they had to train in a plane known as the "vomit comet."

If I was on my way to the moon I'd have to be bleeding out before I'd ask to turn around.

 

[GlennB]

Three times over a period of hours. Not your usual run of the mill double or triple post. Those tend to be within seconds.

First at 5:10am
Second at 5:49am
Third at 7:03am BUT he posted at 5:52am on a different matter.

So that kind of rules out accident, don't you think?

oops, missed one of those

Case in point, the inability/refusal to use the quote function, costing genuine members lots of time to figure out which post he is on about.

I wonder if he posts through a proxy. I once did this and had trouble with more complex forum functions (quoting, embedding images etc) which got garbled by the proxy software.

 

[abaddon]

Same for you Apollo, not sure what the aim would be in terms of "getting over" on the group by "sneaking" the same message in there twice.

Outright wrong. THREE times over an almost 2 hour period, with a different post in between.

I think the first iteration sat in the machine for over an hour. not that it matters. did you try my challenge at all Apollo?

There are precisely 2 ways this could occur:

1. It is entirely deliberate

or

2. It is caused by refreshing a submitted page.

If 2 is the case, you are given a dialog box asking do you really want to submit this again?

I think it unlikely that one would keep on saying "yes please" over the course of two hours while submitting another different post.

Unless you are computer illiterate, which would be an odd state for someone with your claimed qualifications.

 

[matt.tansy]

Anyway, astronauts were used to this kinda junk, as they had to train in a plane known as the "vomit comet."

If I was on my way to the moon I'd have to be bleeding out before I'd ask to turn around.

Surely these fighter pilot combat veteran test pilots aren't all that tough.

 

[abaddon]

My kids each slept in "the big bed" with my wife and I when they were tiny. I've been barfed on repeatedly in the same night. One time I had two different kids sick at the same time, one barfing in my bed and the other barfing from the top bunk all over the bottom bunk. I think I did 9 loads of laundry before dawn over that one.

Anyway, astronauts were used to this kinda junk, as they had to train in a plane known as the "vomit comet."

If I was on my way to the moon I'd have to be bleeding out before I'd ask to turn around.

LOL, did you get the mad trips in the small wee hours to A&E with the wild temperatures too?

Those are FUN.