Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

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UK,

OK UK, here's a good way to look at the situation with Borman. Let's accept the mainstream view as presented by NASA. borman had a bout of fairly profuse diarrhea while en route to the moon. this began about 18 hours into the flight as best I can recall, give or take. Naturally, infectious gastroenteritis would be viewed as the greatest threat to all 3 astronauts under the circumstances and even if this diagnosis proved not to be the case, there was feces floating about the cabin of the command module, a zero G environment. Under such circumstances, even if the diarrhea was well rounded up employing paper towels as some sources suggest, the cabin would neverhteless have infectious material on many surfaces, including the surfaces of the astronauts bodies. Basic precautions were never entertained let alone enacted such as simple regular hand washing. We may confidently conclude, the episode is not a real illness as the medical assessment and the treament effected were woefully inadequate. If the illness was feigned, so too was the entirety of the Apollo 8 Mission.

Take a look at the primary materials UK. ask a friend of yours who is a doc to take a look and mention what I have written here. ask them what they think. This is the issue in broad outline. there is much more to say, but this should get you going.

If you believe the primary source materials show an appropriate response to the situation, well that is fine. we simply differ on the issue. I see fairly strong evidence supportive of hoax here. you cannot hang your hat on it, but it is strong. Hard to let go of because the risk to the astronauts would be so great and nobodyu is doing anything about it.

Hope this helps you understand my point whether or not you disagree/agree. thanks for the challenge, Pat
 
Patrick1000 said:
The question Matt is when was Lick Observatory notified of the LM landing coordinates, who(Houston?) notified whom(Lick) and what were those coordinates?

The fact a notification to Lick Observatory occurred Matt is not a point in dispute. NASA, Lick, the Apollo Lunar Scientists and the LRRR primary investigators all report a notification was made and the Lick staff began targeting the LRRR not too long after the astronauts were alleged to have set it down.

Please answer this question. your statement above has nothing to do with the question as asked. the info is readily accessible.
Click to expand...

I have answered a dozen times. You are just too stupid to realize when your idiotic claim has been thoroughly debunked.
 
Who on Earth could have possibly known where the LM was? Who, oh, who? It was so far away it must have been impossible for anybody to have known where it was! Oh, wait.

y3Oc6.png
y3Oc6.png
 
UK,

OK UK, here's a good way to look at the situation with Borman. Let's accept the mainstream view as presented by NASA. borman had a bout of fairly profuse diarrhea while en route to the moon. this began about 18 hours into the flight as best I can recall, give or take. Naturally, infectious gastroenteritis would be viewed as the greatest threat to all 3 astronauts under the circumstances and even if this diagnosis proved not to be the case, there was feces floating about the cabin of the command module, a zero G environment. Under such circumstances, even if the diarrhea was well rounded up employing paper towels as some sources suggest, the cabin would neverhteless have infectious material on many surfaces, including the surfaces of the astronauts bodies. Basic precautions were never entertained let alone enacted such as simple regular hand washing. We may confidently conclude, the episode is not a real illness as the medical assessment and the treament effected were woefully inadequate. If the illness was feigned, so too was the entirety of the Apollo 8 Mission.

Take a look at the primary materials UK. ask a friend of yours who is a doc to take a look and mention what I have written here. ask them what they think. This is the issue in broad outline. there is much more to say, but this should get you going.

If you believe the primary source materials show an appropriate response to the situation, well that is fine. we simply differ on the issue. I see fairly strong evidence supportive of hoax here. you cannot hang your hat on it, but it is strong. Hard to let go of because the risk to the astronauts would be so great and nobodyu is doing anything about it.

Hope this helps you understand my point whether or not you disagree/agree. thanks for the challenge, Pat
 
Missed the point Matt unless the post is simply intended to be humorous, then it is sort of funny, but not too much for me.
 
Wikipedia has a good primer on the Unified S-Band, the communication system used for Apollo. Voice, TV, telemetry, command and control, ranging signals, etc., were all transmitted on a single frequency.
 
OK Pat,

I'm in charge of the whole Apollo hoax. You're helping me to play through some scenarios so we can make this thing fool proof and convince the world and all it's scientists, doctors, journalists and politicians that the Apollo missions were genuine.

You and I have a meeting. I say "Hey Pat, you know, for Borman's flight I think he should get a dose of diarrhoea. Not for real of course, just the story we'll put out. Whadya think?"

And you say.....

Patrick1000 said:
Naturally, infectious gastroenteritis would be viewed as the greatest threat to all 3 astronauts under the circumstances and even if this diagnosis proved not to be the case, there was feces floating about the cabin of the command module, a zero G environment. Under such circumstances, even if the diarrhea was well rounded up employing paper towels as some sources suggest, the cabin would neverhteless have infectious material on many surfaces, including the surfaces of the astronauts bodies. Basic precautions were never entertained let alone enacted such as simple regular hand washing. We may confidently conclude, the episode is not a real illness as the medical assessment and the treament effected were woefully inadequate. If the illness was feigned, so too was the entirety of the Apollo 8 Mission.
Click to expand...

And I say "Geez Pat, you're no fun at all. But you're right, I guess. Including such a stupid detail would be pointless if it has the ability to raise doubts in the minds of some people. Let's scrap it and just have a normal 'fake' mission without any poop"

If only you'd been in on the planning, eh Pat? ;)
 
UK,

OK UK, here's a good way to look at the situation with Borman. Let's accept the mainstream view as presented by NASA. borman had a bout of fairly profuse diarrhea while en route to the moon. this began about 18 hours into the flight as best I can recall, give or take. Naturally, infectious gastroenteritis would be viewed as the greatest threat to all 3 astronauts under the circumstances and even if this diagnosis proved not to be the case, there was feces floating about the cabin of the command module, a zero G environment. Under such circumstances, even if the diarrhea was well rounded up employing paper towels as some sources suggest, the cabin would neverhteless have infectious material on many surfaces, including the surfaces of the astronauts bodies. Basic precautions were never entertained let alone enacted such as simple regular hand washing. We may confidently conclude, the episode is not a real illness as the medical assessment and the treament effected were woefully inadequate. If the illness was feigned, so too was the entirety of the Apollo 8 Mission.

Take a look at the primary materials UK. ask a friend of yours who is a doc to take a look and mention what I have written here. ask them what they think. This is the issue in broad outline. there is much more to say, but this should get you going.

If you believe the primary source materials show an appropriate response to the situation, well that is fine. we simply differ on the issue. I see fairly strong evidence supportive of hoax here. you cannot hang your hat on it, but it is strong. Hard to let go of because the risk to the astronauts would be so great and nobodyu is doing anything about it.

Hope this helps you understand my point whether or not you disagree/agree. thanks for the challenge, Pat
 
Last comment, forget about detail, forget about hoax UK, ask yourself if the medicine, the evaluation and response seems appropriate. Leave the hoax stuff, let's grant it is 100% real. What do you thionk of the "care" by the flight surgeons?
 
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The point about launching a rocket you make is excellent nomuse, will look into it and comment. I honestly do not know much at all about the lunas except 15. I read the camera was good on that piece of equipment, though have not read extensively. the other luna series satellites I have not looked into much if at all nomuse. I will see what I can find and comment as/if appropriate. thanks for the good feedback/questions
 
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The computer I use here at work does weird stuff at times. I believe it was "stuck" and very slow when that happened.
 
Is there a bit in the transcript where CAPCOM says "OK guys, I'm afraid you're going to be stuck in that stinky capsule for quite a while whether we abort or not. It'll be considerably less time if we abort, of course, so do you want to do that, or would you rather carry on and become the first human beings in the whole of history to fly around the moon?"
 
Patrick1000 said:
The computer I use here at work does weird stuff at times. I believe it was "stuck" and very slow when that happened.
Click to expand...

Yet it managed to post a different message in between, before a copy of that previous message was posted. A subtle fault indeed. Perhaps you should have your brainstrust take a look at it.
 
nomuse said:
But none without notice.

As an example of the difference, if you go to any satellite watching site, you will find several "secret" satellites of unknown purpose are being tracked. The general public doesn't know what it is (although there are pretty good guesses who launched it). But any observer knows it is there and knows its orbital parameters as well.

You don't launch a rocket of any kind that can put a package on the Moon without it being noticed and tracked by all of the major powers, and by quite a number of amateurs as well.
Click to expand...

Darn straight, buddy. Young people now are used to unpublicized launches of smaller rockets to deliver small payloads to low earth orbit, totally forgetting/not knowing that delivering packages to the moon required a much larger vehicle.

There are only a couple of places to launch these things. People are gonna notice.
 
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The Point Jack is not that it is stinky, but that they could get very sick were the diarrhea due to say salmonella, or even a virus. So no one tells them to wash their hands even which is the most important thing to do. this is just scratching the surface. Abort is not necessarily the right option, though I would have voted for that. But abort or not is very much NOT the issue at hand. The question is, do the astronauts behave in such a way as one would expect were Borman to have had diarrhea in the cabin? the answer is no. so we can comfortably assume the doctors did not do their job. now either they are incompetent, which is very unlikely given this is supposed to be a big important project , so they sure wouldn't hire crumy docs, or it may all be feigned. the latter is more likely in my mind.
 
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Same for you Apollo, not sure what the aim would be in terms of "getting over" on the group by "sneaking" the same message in there twice. I think the first iteration sat in the machine for over an hour. not that it matters. did you try my challenge at all Apollo?
 
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