Merged Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Patrick1000]

I am looking right now at the data base most frequently used in the USA for quick searches in academic medical centers. UPTODATE. For GI side effects, one sees seconal associated with nausea vomiting and constipation. This would be more main stream thinking Glen, constipation NOT diarrhea. Ask your doctor friends and when it comes to medicine, stay off the internet. It is hazardous to your heatlth.

 

[Erock]

So was that photo from Collins spacewalk E ?

No. Can you not read? There were no photos taken of his spacewalk, so they took a training photo, probably trimmed it and overlaid it on black.

Mockup is the word used, is that unfamiliar with you?

 

[matt.tansy]

Where did H. David Reed find the Eagle? If one looks at the Apollo 11 Mission report, and keep in mind Twinstead, this is a NASA official document, we see on Table 5-IV under the heading, LUNAR LANDING COORDINATES, that Reed's employment of the rendezvous radar yielded a north coordinate of 0.636, and an east coordinate of 23.50. The radius is given as 937.13

We convert the coordinates above into the "more familiar", at least more familiar as regards a discussion of Tranquility Base, 00 38 10 north and 23 30 00 east.

Now the Landing Coordinate chart footnotes indicate to translate from radar trajectory coordinate to grid we add 2' 25" to the north coordinate and subtract 4 17" from the east coordinate. This gives us, a rendezvous radar H.David Reed calculation of 00 40 35 north and 23 25 43 east. Very close to the official coordinates for Tranquility base that they gave to the Lick Observatory people earlier on.

The footnote does not mention the word, "radar". The footnote says,

^aFollowing the Apollo 10 mission, a difference was noted (from the landmark tracking results) between the trajectory coordinate system and the coordinate system on the reference map. In order to reference trajectory values to the 1:100 000 scale Lunar Map ORB-II-6 (100), dated December 1967, correction factors of plus 2'25" in latitude and minus 4'17" in longitude must be applied to the trajectory values.

This correction only applies when plotting the landing coordinates on the the chart mentioned in the footnote. As mentioned in footnote (c) the corrections were applied after the LM's position was determined from photographs of the landing site.

You added the corrections to Read's radar position to move it closer to the position given to the Lick Observatory. Sneaky, sneaky.

Read's radar position was really 1.6 miles from the position given to Lick.

Check the numbers and references for yourselves.

Always. Because you will always catch hoax believers lying.

 

[Patrick1000]

Thanks Erock, I was clueless about the details of the story. I had only heard about the general charge made by Rene' and I have 2 different editions of the book myself. I never read anything into the pics. I did have an interest though more from a historical perspective than anything else. If i am not mistaken, Rene' opens his book with the claim about the Collins shot. that is his very first shot at Apollo, the Collins spacewalk photo issue.

 

[GlennB]

Regardless, someone comes into our ER with diarrhea, we don't view a recent Seconal ingestion as the likely culprit. Try again.

But if you knew the patient presenting had taken Seconal recently then it would be awful medicine not to consider it.

I am looking right now at the data base most frequently used in the USA for quick searches in academic medical centers. UPTODATE. For GI side effects, one sees seconal associated with nausea vomiting and constipation. This would be more main stream thinking Glen, constipation NOT diarrhea. Ask your doctor friends and when it comes to medicine, stay off the internet. It is hazardous to your heatlth.

MedlinePlus among others, note diarrhea as a possible side-effect. Many sources also include both drowsiness and excitement as possible side-effects even though they appear mutually exclusive. Different people will react differently. Constipation and diarrhea are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Patrick1000]

I assume any coordinates while the ships are flying above the moon translate this way Matt. I think that is what is going on. 23 26 00 East above the moon is not 23 26 00 east on the moon. The sphere is "bigger" above. No big if I am wrong there, the substance of my argument does not change. The numbers are different , but still one finds all of the numbers in the mission report being very close to one another more or less, not at variance, and in addition the larger point, we have the Lick Observatory Staff being fed perfect numbers before anyone is supposed to have them. So look in to it. There may be something there you are on to.

Last point, consider why is it that the AOT north measurement is the one at variance. Perhaps , and I am not sure, but perhaps this has to do with the fact that no one is flying above the surface to make this calculation. It is a static calculation. this view would sort of support my read on all this. It is interesting to me. I can say more actually but have to do a bit of work now.

Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[Patrick1000]

Absolutely Glenn, especially true in the case of these astronauts. They'd be interrogated to death, exactly as you say, about Seconal and everything else. In my opinion, this did not occur. And even if one were to say well it did occur, you can tell the thing is all fake on other grounds. So I agree very much with your point about the Seconal. But food history and other infectious disease related concerns would be the questions of the greatest importance/significance here. None of that goes on as best I can tell.

 

[GlennB]

Moving on ...

I don't know your background in this area so I'll just ask: do you accept that a series of space vehicles known as Apollo went to the moon, separated into 2 modules, one part landing and one part orbiting for a while, before rejoining and then returning to earth?

 

[Patrick1000]

I do not mean to pull rank in any way Glenn. You did the right thing by looking up Seconal and finding diarrhea, and pointing out the "excitement" thing and so forth. I am impressed. It is quite good, your presentation and approach. Spot on. It is just barbituates would be low in what we call a "differential", which is doc speak for a list of possibilities. there is no behavior reflective of that in my mind. these are astronauts for God's sakes supposedly flying to the moon. I am a general hospitalist, not a flight surgeon, an aerospace physician, and I would be all over this. A genuine flight surgeon would be worried sick and there would be a lot of discussion as to ramifications of microscopic infectious particles floating everywhere.

As you say you have to consider Seconal, so too you must consider infection. Bacteria, virus , small invisible particles floating everywhere in a zero-G environment. Does anyone ask once what the ship's filter might do? No. Any discussion of this upon the ships return? No.

Remember Glenn, when they get back, no one knows what happened to Boorman. There is no definitive diagnosis made. Check the record yourself.

What if it "was" garden variety Space sickness? 50%-70% of astronauts get that. Are you going to load people up with a fistful of lomotil before lift-off? Well we know garden variety space sickness does not cause diarrhea now, but then we did not. How did they know that was not the case. Some say it was. Any contingencies for Armstrong pooping his brains out?

This is tip of the iceberg and very much not esoteric, just straight forward medical thinking. Anyone think to culture Boorman's stool. That should be an automatic. Wasn't done as best i can tell.

 

[Patrick1000]

No I believe Apollo is fake Glenn. i am 53 years old. I was 11 when they landed. I totally bought it until i began to read NASA literature 4 monthsish ago. I do not read the writings of others, only primary source stuff. It's fake, has to be. The Boorman thing, right there, has to be. Could not be otherwise. No way astronauts would be sick like that and have yo-yos for docs. the docs would be first rate. these guys in the NASA script are pretend docs. Sorry but it is true.

 

[GlennB]

No I believe Apollo is fake Glenn.

If that's meant to be an answer to this:

Moving on ...

I don't know your background in this area so I'll just ask: do you accept that a series of space vehicles known as Apollo went to the moon, separated into 2 modules, one part landing and one part orbiting for a while, before rejoining and then returning to earth?

then you haven't actually answered the question. Care to?

 

[Patrick1000]

Last point before i go for a while. As i fingered Bales above, more likely than not being in on the con, so too i imagine Charles Berry to be. Not 100% certain, but more likely than not. He is not doing what he should be. He is a pretend doctor and so is part of the pretend side of the mostly real Apollo project. So far , at least in this thread I would suggest the astronauts themselves, Bales, Berry as participants in the fraud. They knew.

 

[Patrick1000]

Glenn got to go, will say no to your question for now. Not sure what exactly you are asking. Sorry, gotta' run. Thanks for the good back and forth, Pat

 

[sts60]

I know 8 is fake because Borman pooped all over the space ship and no one really cared enough about it to convince me any of it could possibly be real...

OK, so we understand that you personally find the way crew illness on a mission was handled literally unbelievable, and appeal to your alleged medical authority as validation for your opinion.

You have also stated you find the way the LM landing site's location was measured to be (paraphrasing) literally unbelievable, and appeal to your own general brilliance as validation for your opinion, as you have no spaceflight background.

I'm a little bit puzzled by what "no one really cared enough about it to convince me..." Quite a few people tried rather diligently to explain it to you in this thread at BAUT and this thread at apollohoax. They kept on working until you, and your various sock-puppets, were banned at both fora.

These people manifestly "cared enough" to try. Are you saying that because they didn't convince you, that means they didn't care?

Or are you saying that only aerospace physicians are allowed to properly discuss the matter with you? I've known a couple of actual Apollo-era aerospace physicians who worked NASA flight programs. They didn't seem to have a problem with Apollo. (I had the great privilege of working a little bit with one, Story Musgrave, on a Shuttle mission. I guarantee his real resume outshines that of anyone posting here by a few orders of magnitude.)

For this reason I think Charles Berry may be in on the con, not 100%, but more likely than not.

This is inconsistent with what you have said at BAUT ("Charles Berry was in on the Apollo Fraud") and AH ("one may surmise none other than the primary Apollo doc, Charles Berry, was in on the fix"), where you left no doubt about the certainty of your allegation.

I refer you back to question 1 - what does this, like the other inconsistencies in your story, say about you? After all, you have equated inconsistencies in an account with dishonesty.

Looking forward to your answers!

 

[sts60]

Apollo in totality can only be fraudulent.

Well, let's consider that. You've said that 11 and 8 were bogus; somewhere, I'm pretty sure you said that "all" the Apollo missions were bogus, but I'd really like to be clear on this. What about Apollo missions in Earth orbit?

We're still trying to establish (questions 6 and 7) which manned missions you accept as real - if any - and exactly why you accept some missions but not the others.

 

[R.A.F.]

The Boorman thing...

Who or what is a "Boorman?

 

[R.A.F.]

There is great beauty , elegance and power to my approach. It's effective. People will argue about rocks from here until the year 3030. You can obviate the need for tedious technical analysis by simply looking for the inconsistencies in the record, the bad acting. Then the pics and rocks have to be accepted as fake. You cannot have a fake story, with real rocks. It's a beautiful approach.

Welcome to Patrick's grand delusion...

 

[Patrick1000]

Unsupervised Pooping

RAF,




"The Boorman thing" refers to pooping in cislunar space without subsequent appropriate clean up.

 

[R.A.F.]

I would suggest the astronauts themselves, Bales, Berry as participants in the fraud. They knew.

Ya know what, I am so sick and tired of "people" who, only by "virtue" of having an internet connection, become "experts" in space travel.
.

 

[Patrick1000]

RAF,

But dontcha' see kid, RAF that's the beauty of Apollo. It isn't real so any shmuck like me can understand every ever lovin' last fraudulent twist. It ain't science, it's bad Holywood. I love it. So accessible.