Reasonable doubt...All truthers(and whoever esle) please read

[WildCat]

Look up Frank Greening...he was an engineer who staunchly supported the official story, and now has serious questions about it.

Actually Frank Greening is a chemist who has a near-pathological hatred of engineers for reasons only he fully understands. Something about a nuke plant years ago.

 

[BStrong]

"Watch this video" appears to be the Truther version of "pull my finger".

I just spit water on the cat lol

 

[tmd2_1]

granted



I already said I watched the Robertson video, and that I had seen a simlar one last week,

Eutectic mix and high, but well within the range of office structure fires, heat.

A common, related phenomena are alloys such as 50/50 tin/lead solder which melts at 183 C, but tin melts at 232 C, and lead at 327 C.

Listen you seem reasonable... it doesn't bother you that people who have no reason to lie...none what so ever...said they saw beams melting? You have in the FEMA report...that both Frank Greening and Ryan Mackey wanted NIST to run more tests on (they didn't), and that doesn't seem a little strange to you? You have pictures...that sure look like molten steel, steel doesn't look like that much like aluminum, but it is hard to tell yes I agree. But given all the testimony...all the samples of what little beams remain...remember in that video with the horse shoe shaped beam...it seems like there was indeed molten steel.

 

[grandmastershek]

You just proved my point...does it matter what you call them? All that matters is people, who have absolutely no reason to lie reported they were melting, and yet that means nothing. All that is important is what they are called?

Wow delusional. No I proved that you're intent on calling it steel based on 0 evidence (And you just did it again.), and more recently that you don't even have an elementary grasp of the vocabulary yet you have the ability to do eye ball chemical analysis; something even experts can't do..

remember in that video with the horse shoe shaped beam...it seems like there was indeed molten steel.

How does a bent beam prove molten steel? Seriously guy...you're just rambling based on ignorance.

 

[tmd2_1]

You have the power to ignore that and respond solely to the 10%

point taken...you are right.

 

[WildCat]

you're right I mean someone on video saying they did..that isn't good evidence at all.

People claim to be responsible for crimes all the time, then later are shown to have been lying.

A confession video is not in itself hard evidence, however when it is combined with other evidence it can help.

 

[jaydeehess]

You don't need a technical method...when the beam is dripping as has been reported. As those pictures sure look like are saying. I mean the one guy says two beams melted together to form a cross...what method do you need when something like that happens?

YES YOU DO!

IF, if , if, if, it is going to be your contention that it WAS steel then You will HAVE to show some TECHNICAL reasoningto bolster than contention.

Is that cross made of two steel truss sections or two aluminum portions of exterior cladding? Did molten aluminum flow along them and form a bond between them that consists of an alloy of steel and aluminum? (no, I do not know if such an alloy is possible)
Besides that though, I can get two pieces of steel coat hanger to bond loosly together in an open air wood bonfire. Clamp them together in a vise and heat the whole works in the fire and allow it to cool. The larger carbon content vise will be less likly to bond to the coat hanger but the two identical metals will. (wrecks the vise though)

 

[WildCat]

You don't need a technical method...when the beam is dripping as has been reported. As those pictures sure look like are saying. I mean the one guy says two beams melted together to form a cross...what method do you need when something like that happens?

1. The WTC had trusses, not beams.
2. Got a pic of a molten truss?

 

[grandmastershek]

People claim to be responsible for crimes all the time, then later are shown to have been lying.

A confession video is not in itself hard evidence, however when it is combined with other evidence it can help.

I think the best part here is that we have multiple videos of the attackers & Bin Laden admitting guilt, but 1 of Bin Laden saying they are not, so TMD believes the 1. We also have people & Robertson saying they saw molten steel & 1 of Robertson saying he didn't, yet TMD chooses to believe that they saw it.

Got to love the cherry picking.

 

[jaydeehess]

How does a bent beam prove molten steel? Seriously guy...you're just rambling based on ignorance.

Has someone posted the photo of steel beams bent over charred wood yet?

Steel gets soft and deforms well before actually reaching its melting point.

It can also stay weak depending on the effect on the carbon and other additive content. I have personally picked up a .22 rifle barrel from the remains of a burned out cottage after a forest fire ran through the area. I bent the barrel into a "U" without breaking a sweat. (and I ain't a big guy)

 

[tmd2_1]

YES YOU DO!

IF, if , if, if, it is going to be your contention that it WAS steel then You will HAVE to show some TECHNICAL reasoningto bolster than contention.

Is that cross made of two steel truss sections or two aluminum portions of exterior cladding? Did molten aluminum flow along them and form a bond between them that consists of an alloy of steel and aluminum? (no, I do not know if such an alloy is possible)
Besides that though, I can get two pieces of steel coat hanger to bond loosly together in an open air wood bonfire. Clamp them together in a vise and heat the whole works in the fire and allow it to cool. The larger carbon content vise will be less likly to bond to the coat hanger but the two identical metals will. (wrecks the vise though)

That's my point there is no report or picture that I am aware that shows any melting of the cladding. I'm not saying there isn't any, I just couldn't find any and I've looked for many hours. Something was clearly melting and if it wasn't the cladding what else could it be?

 

[BStrong]

People claim to be responsible for crimes all the time, then later are shown to have been lying.

A confession video is not in itself hard evidence, however when it is combined with other evidence it can help.

False confessions are so common that LEA's need to have a "key" held back in every case to prove out the instances of FC.

Humans are strange animals.

 

[tmd2_1]

Has someone posted the photo of steel beams bent over charred wood yet?

Steel gets soft and deforms well before actually reaching its melting point.

It can also stay weak depending on the effect on the carbon and other additive content. I have personally picked up a .22 rifle barrel from the remains of a burned out cottage after a forest fire ran through the area. I bent the barrel into a "U" without breaking a sweat. (and I ain't a big guy)

That horse shoe shaped beam...I don't believe there is anyway to explain that except that the temperatures got very hot. Hotter then what would be possible with jet fuel and a normal office fire.

 

[Dayan81]

That horse shoe shaped beam...I don't believe there is anyway to explain that except that the temperatures got very hot. Hotter then what would be possible with jet fuel and a normal office fire.

What percent of steel's strength would have to be lost to allow a steel beam to be bent in such a manner?

What minimum temperatures are required to reach this level of loss of strength in steel?

I am not engineer but I am willing to bet that this kind of bending would be possible at a 50% loss of strength, which is reachable with the temperatures consistent with a normal office fire.

 

[grandmastershek]

Has someone posted the photo of steel beams bent over charred wood yet?

Steel gets soft and deforms well before actually reaching its melting point.

It can also stay weak depending on the effect on the carbon and other additive content. I have personally picked up a .22 rifle barrel from the remains of a burned out cottage after a forest fire ran through the area. I bent the barrel into a "U" without breaking a sweat. (and I ain't a big guy)

Pffft! There is an entire steel forming process called "cold rolling". With the proper forces you can bend steel at room temperature. I know this simply from when I took freshman metal shop 17 years ago. What does that say about TMD's knowledge base?

When did you document a U shaped steel column at the WTC?

When did you document that people can identify molten metals by eye sight?

When did you refute my sources on judging metals and temps in fires.

Any day now TMD. Typical truther hiding from facts.

I don't believe there is anyway.

So your own ignorance is your evidence. That's swell. Dunning Kruger strikes again!

 

[tmd2_1]

What percent of steel's strength would have to be lost to allow a steel beam to be bent in such a manner?

What minimum temperatures are required to reach this level of loss of strength in steel?

Watch the video..two guys that appear to be very knowledgeable comment on it.

 

[WildCat]

That's my point there is no report or picture that I am aware that shows any melting of the cladding. I'm not saying there isn't any, I just couldn't find any and I've looked for many hours. Something was clearly melting and if it wasn't the cladding what else could it be?

If you claim molten steel you have to also claim molten aluminum, since steel melts at a much higher temperature than aluminum.

 

[jaydeehess]

That's my point there is no report or picture that I am aware that shows any melting of the cladding. I'm not saying there isn't any, I just couldn't find any and I've looked for many hours. Something was clearly melting and if it wasn't the cladding what else could it be?

Once again you are assuming that since people said only 'steel' but not 'cladding' that it must be steel and that the cladding did not melt. However humans are inherently subjective. Tell me, what was the common description of the structure's construction? (rhetorical question) They are described commonly referred to as 'all steel construction'. Only in more technical articles does anyone get into the fact that the floors were lightweight concrete or that the floors were of two types of support, long span trusses and a few floors that actually did use heavy steel beams, and that the exterior was clad in aluminum. In the chaotic jumble of rubble it would be difficult to identify a steel element from a similar looking piece of aluminum cladding and the human (rather than robotic computer) mind will use the most common and subjective description.
Now if Spock or Data had been on the scene their statement might have been different but alas they are fictitious characters.

 

[The Platypus]

Watch the video..two guys that appear to be very knowledgeable comment on it.

Of course mere appearance of being knowledgeable is good enough for 911 kooks...

 

[WildCat]

That horse shoe shaped beam...I don't believe there is anyway to explain that except that the temperatures got very hot. Hotter then what would be possible with jet fuel and a normal office fire.

Steel beams twisted beyond belief are quite common in ordinary fires. Ever been in a building after a major fire? I have, and I have seen steel beams bent like a horseshoe from the heat. This is not an unusual phenomenon.