Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

[grandmastershek]

I refer to the final phase of the collapse when global collapse occurred. NIST describes as thus:

"The entire building above the buckled-column region then moved downward as a single unit, completing the global collapse sequence."

This was the upper 33 floors in case you've not read NCSTAR 1A

The buckled-column region they refer to is based on their hypothesis so could be true or might not be.

I see so your ignoring that the entire building didn't move as a single unit. Nice omission

 

[sylvan8798]

Thanks .Would a steel framed building have rolled over intact the same way as that one in the same circumstances or is a steel framed building weaker than a reinforced concrete one ?

It's not likely. It's not that a steel framed building is weaker, but the structural concept is different.

If you watch the video again, you will notice that the structure is able to pull free of its foundations (as does the Chinese one in the picture mrkinnies posted). Concrete is not good in tension (hence the rebar) and with that much load, the bars will pull free of the concrete (see them hanging). Steel, OTOH, is as good in tension as in compression, so when the building load reverses from the design intent and tries to pull up the steel columns, they would be likely to remain attached longer. The structure would fail at other locations before failing by pulling the columns up.

The Turkish building is also much stiffer in terms of the concrete walls, floors, and columns making it more like a box, rather than like a set of slim members, like this, for example: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=stee...9&tbnw=114&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0

 

[Clayton Moore]

Do not present building which were totaled by fire and where the fires were fought to save the buildings. When you are spreading lies and delusions freely like you do, do not supply proof fire destroys steel, even in fire that are fought. It is self-debunking if you had the knowledge to understand fire sciences, engineering, and what you posted.

Total double talk.

 

[beachnut]

Total double talk.

I have the fire report for One Meridian Plaza, a fire fought but the building was totaled. The building is not there any more due to fire.

You clearly debunked 911 truth, yourself and other lies about fire and 911. You have failed to make a rational point as you try to spread lies and moronic delusions made up out of ignorance and bias.

Yep, you posted One Meridian Plaza, a building destroyed, totaled by fire as what? You debunk your delusions without effort; a super hero of self-debunking.

One Meridian Plaza, in danger of collapse, look what office fires did, without the help of 10,000 gallons of jet fuel starting fires on multiple floors like the WTC towers. Wow, when you debunk yourself, you do it big time.

Tell everyone what happen to One Meridian Plaza? Where is it now? Scrap, I have to answer for you and 911 truth, you never answer question, you only post lies, delusions, and debunking evidence against your own failed claims.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I have the fire report for One Meridian Plaza, a fire fought but the building was totaled. The building is not there any more due to fire.

You clearly debunked 911 truth, yourself and other lies about fire and 911. You have failed to make a rational point as you try to spread lies and moronic delusions made up out of ignorance and bias.

It was still standing. It didn't collapse. After it cooled down Philadelphia firemen entered and inspected the building.

 

[beachnut]

It was still standing. It didn't collapse. After it cooled down Philadelphia firemen entered and inspected the building.

It is gone, totaled by fire. You need to read the "rest of the story". You did no real in-depth research on One Meridian Plaza, I have the report, you just failed again.

Look above, ever seen that much bending in steel in fire? Next time try using science.

 

[mrkinnies]

It is gone, totaled by fire. You need to read the "rest of the story". You did no real in-depth research on One Meridian Plaza, I have the report, you just failed again.

Look above, ever seen that much bending in steel in fire? Next time try using science.

But it was still standing after the fire was put out.

The fact it was uneconomical to do anything more with the building is the reason for its final demolition and removal.

What science do you need to describe this issue?

 

[mrkinnies]

Every now and then we come across truthers that have a fundamental lack of understanding of basic physics concepts. An object with angular momentum will maintain that momentum unless an external force acts upon it (air resistance, the ground, etc). However, this angular momentum only applies to the object when it is whole and rigid. As it breaks apart from impact forces and the reduction of load bearing capacity as it rotates the angular momentum is lost.

Now I'm not sure if you expect the building to stay rigid as it rotates 90 degrees or if you're unclear on the concept of angular momentum. Either way, your post is nonsense.

I thought my basic understanding was sound....a rotating object will continue to rotate until something stops it. That's what I said when discussing rotation before.

But thanks for adding the bit about that only being applicable to intact structures. I'm sure it'll help in the future.

 

[bill smith]

It's not likely. It's not that a steel framed building is weaker, but the structural concept is different.

If you watch the video again, you will notice that the structure is able to pull free of its foundations (as does the Chinese one in the picture mrkinnies posted). Concrete is not good in tension (hence the rebar) and with that much load, the bars will pull free of the concrete (see them hanging). Steel, OTOH, is as good in tension as in compression, so when the building load reverses from the design intent and tries to pull up the steel columns, they would be likely to remain attached longer. The structure would fail at other locations before failing by pulling the columns up.

The Turkish building is also much stiffer in terms of the concrete walls, floors, and columns making it more like a box, rather than like a set of slim members, like this, for example: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=stee...9&tbnw=114&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0

Thanks. Good post. I'll save it. Wouldnt the building slump on the failing side though ?

 

[mrkinnies]

and we see rotation......and you have not shown that this was too much or too little...........you just made another baseless assertion.

It was too little, I have told you.

one to two degrees although this is by my reckoning. Hey, prove me wrong.

 

[beachnut]

But it was still standing after the fire was put out.

The fact it was uneconomical to do anything more with the building is the reason for its final demolition and removal.

What science do you need to describe this issue?

Fire.
The buildings presented by CM, both destroyed by fire, too weak to be used again.

You have joined a failed movement, you have no clue what fire does, and can't figure out models, engineering and you now can't find a use for science to understand 911 issues. You support liars, and you do it with words, no evidence just words and opinions you made up out of ignorance.

Windsor, the steel only sections failed quickly, should have researched this.
One Meridian Plaza, you should have read the fire report, the building almost collapsed until fire fighters fixed a way to charge the upper floors water sprinklers which had failed.

If you knew science you would not be fooled by idiots like Gage who spread lies you seem to fall for without much effort.

Gage is only spreading lies about 911 to pulling over 200k a year and live off of the ignorance of others. There is money to made off of people who have no clue.

 

[mrkinnies]

Stick to choosing Doric or Ionian columns.....there you might be within your training.

Classical theory isn't taught in too many schools of architecture these days, unless it has changed in the twenty years since I was at one.

 

[mrkinnies]

Fire.
The buildings presented by CM, both destroyed by fire, too weak to be used again.

You have joined a failed movement, you have no clue what fire does, and can't figure out models, engineering and you now can't find a use for science to understand 911 issues. You support liars, and you do it with words, no evidence just words and opinions you made up out of ignorance.

Windsor, the steel only sections failed quickly, should have researched this.
One Meridian Plaza, you should have read the fire report, the building almost collapsed until fire fighters fixed a way to charge the upper floors water sprinklers which had failed.

If you knew science you would not be fooled by idiots like Gage who spread lies you seem to fall for without much effort.

Gage is only spreading lies about 911 to pulling over 200k a year and live off of the ignorance of others. There is money to made off of people who have no clue.

I've been believing this stuff since 2003, before Gage I think.

How long did One Meridian Plaza burn for before the firefighters sorted out the sprinkler system?

 

[beachnut]

But it was still standing after the fire was put out.

The fact it was uneconomical to do anything more with the building is the reason for its final demolition and removal. ... ?

LOL, uneconomical? Here is some of the damage to One Meridian Plaza, there was more, including structural failure due to fire.

Yep, it is uneconomical to bend back steel weaken by fire. One Meridian Plaza has steel and sections that failed. If they had not fought the fire, if the fire systems had been destroyed or not working, One Meridian Plaza would have collapsed. This is why fires are fought to keep buildings from collapsing.

3 feet, and this fire was fought. Just think of what jet fuel starting fire on multiple floors with a big hole made by a plane would do! 10,000 gallons of jet fuel starting fires, and the impact took away the fire systems, fire systems destroyed and you can't comprehend why the WTC collapsed due to lack of knowledge; so you make up moronic lies based on nothing.

Guess you were spreading lies before Gage was. Good for you. You do it for free, Gage does it for 75k/yr.

 

[mrkinnies]

LOL, uneconomical?
[qimg]http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/onemeridiansag.jpg[/qimg]
Yep, it is uneconomical to bend back steel weaken by fire. One Meridian Plaza has steel and sections that failed. If they had not fought the fire, if the fire systems had been destroyed or not working, One Meridian Plaza would have collapsed. This is why fires are fought to keep buildings from collapsing.

3 feet, and this fire was fought. Just think of what jet fuel starting fire on multiple floors with a big hole made by a plane would do! 10,000 gallons of jet fuel starting fires, and the impact took away the fire systems, fire systems destroyed and you can't comprehend why the WTC collapsed due to lack of knowledge; so you make up moronic lies based on nothing.

Guess you were spreading lies before Gage was. Good for you. You do it for free, Gage does it for 75k/yr.

So was One Merian Plaza still standing after the fire and how long did it rage for?

In NCSTAR 1A, NIST confirmed that the fuel oil stored in WTC7 was not set on fire according to the evidence they have and that even had it ignited, it wouldn't have created temperatures capable of creating significant loss of strength or stiffness. They are explicit about this as far as I can see. I could be wrong.

What is Kerosine? Is it fuel oil or not? In which case, can you make the argument that the jet fuel would have created hot enough fires in WTC 1 & 2 also?

 

[funk de fino]

Thank you.

The bolded parts are NIST's assumption since no other proof exists. The second part about the global collapse and the downward movement of the single block is available for all to see via the videos.

Look up progressive collapse. You do know that NIST said that the design on WTC7 meant that it was susceptible to collapse purely by removing column 79?

 

[funk de fino]

So was One Merian Plaza still standing after the fire and how long did it rage for?

In NCSTAR 1A, NIST confirmed that the fuel oil stored in WTC7 was not set on fire according to the evidence they have and that even had it ignited, it wouldn't have created temperatures capable of creating significant loss of strength or stiffness. They are explicit about this as far as I can see. I could be wrong.

What is Kerosine? Is it fuel oil or not? In which case, can you make the argument that the jet fuel would have created hot enough fires in WTC 1 & 2 also?

Read his post again for comprehension.

 

[mrkinnies]

Look up progressive collapse. You do know that NIST said that the design on WTC7 meant that it was susceptible to collapse purely by removing column 79?

Amazing. The whole unit fell as a complete unit after one column failed.

 

[twinstead]

Mrkinnis, you've yet to speak out; what are your thoughts about why the rank-and-file of the world's engineers and their organizations not spoken out about what you obviously think is a complete sham by the NIST?

 

[bill smith]

This is NISTS's own final words on WTC7.. Note that damage from the North Tower is not even mentioned and that they do not believe the diesel fuel played a role in the fires.

NIST This is the final report take away mesage on WTC7

1.'' The reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery

2.WTC 7 collapsed because of fires, fueled by office furnishings

3.It did not collapse from explosives or from fuel oil fires"

End of take-away message.........