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The End Of The World

Johnny Marseilles said:
Johannes Greber's translation: "Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city."
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So you are quoting a spiritualist who had a spirit guide help him translate the Bible.
This may explain the answer you gave to the question of how long you have been Catholic.
Could it be you are not a Christian at all and belong to your own New Age self-invented religion who just likes Jesus as an Iconic figure for your rituals or whatever?
 
Marduk said:
so your faith is a bit mix and match then
;)
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Looks like it.
I was having a problem trying to place it and now I understand why.
Just grabs bits from here and there.
I may not be the best person to be a critic since I am not exactly so orthodox.
 
Johnny Marseilles said:
Theobald Daechsel's translation: "And tombs opened up, and many corpses of saints laying at rest were lifted up."

Johannes Greber's translation: "Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city."
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Leumas' translation:
Notice how each translation is DIFFERENT from the other? Does that mean we can ever tell which is right and which is not? Why select one over the other? Could it be that all translations are WRONG? Can it be that the basis for you choosing one rather than another is YOUR preference? What if I choose MY OWN translation (i.e. it is all bull) why would that be less applicable than yours?​


Johnny Marseilles said:
Faith? My faith is based upon knowledge and I think for myself, though, of course I use the resources of the organized religion. Surely you don't expect anything original from a discussion on a 4-2 thousand year old text or 2,000 years of its obvious transmogrification.
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So why are you in anyway invested in the Biblical stuff rather than the Upanishads or Mahabharata or the Iliad or the Eddas or the Quran or Harry Potter or Little Red Riding Hood or Narnia or One Thousand and One Nights.

What is it that makes the Bible in anyway TRUE or correct or valid to life today??????

Just consider this very possible likelihood..... you are reading translations of translations of books written in dead languages that hardly anybody can read or understand today with certainty without speculations. Even when they know the words they can have numerous meanings and nuances that render any comprehension of the original writers' intents impossible.

BUT....BUT.... even worse.....these books could have been no more than the equivalent of Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales of the time.

Imagine thousands of years from now ignorant people who are descendents of humans after a major apocalypse and they find One Thousand And One Nights and they think that it is tales of real people and real moral directives.

Just imagine how stupid they would be!
 
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Johnny Marseilles said:
Same thing. The person is the soul.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) Vol. XIII, p. 467 - Nepes [Hebrew nephesh] is a term of far greater extension than our 'soul,' signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the OT means not a part of man, but the whole man - man as a living being. Similarly, in the NT it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37)

The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152 - The Hebrew term for 'soul' (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an 'animated being' and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē ('soul') was comparable to nefesh.

The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564 - The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.
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I find this response to be somewhat confusing. Is the soul part of a person or is it just a synonymy for person? Do you suggest that, everywhere in the Bible, I can replace the one word with the other and it still makes sense (for a very small sense of sense).
 
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Johnny Marseilles said:
The skeptical often think that, according to the Bible, the end would come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners. It is a mistake to conclude this.
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You would say that.

It would seriously dent the authority of the bible if it predicted the return of Jesus during the lifetime of his disciples and this didn't happen.

Therefore, the people writing the bible must have meant something completely different and the translators got it wrong.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
I find this response to be somewhat confusing. Is the soul part of a person or is it just a synonymy for person? Do you suggest that, everywhere in the Bible, I can replace the one word with the other and it still makes sense (for a very small sense of sense).
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In the Old Testament it meant your life.
The NT gets more esoteric because it is in Greek but might not be a good idea to take it to that same extent that the Greeks believed. It may have been the closest equivalent, and not to put any more meaning to it than that but it may mean the more expanded concept if it was Paul because he was a native Greek speaker and an initiate into the mysteries.
 
Johnny Marseilles said:
Well of course, I disagree. Perhaps it suggests a presupposition on your part? ;)

Maybe you and I lean slightly to either Higher and Lower criticism respectively. Higher criticism, of course, is primarily a pseudo scholarly attempt to undermine people's confidence in the Bible.



Genesis was completed in 1513 B.C.E.

Here is something I did some time ago for the casual reader to mull over.

B.C.E.
4026, Adam created
<snip>
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All a waste of time after this bit of silliness, but I hope it was entertaining for you.

PS
I like your avatar; I hope you don't get banned. :D
 
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Johnny Marseilles said:
For my avatar?! Why would I get banned for my avatar?
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Oh, not for the avatar.

Just based on the history of members who've posted similar ideas to your own. They've not been very understanding of the rules here, sometimes.

I just meant I liked our avatar and would want to keep you around. :)
 
AdMan said:
Oh, not for the avatar.

Just based on the history of members who've posted similar ideas to your own. They've not been very understanding of the rules here, sometimes.

I just meant I liked our avatar and would want to keep you around. :)
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Oh, I see - yeah, I have no doubt I will be banned but I didn't think it would be for my avatar which is just cute as all get out. :cool:

Thanks for saying so.
 
Johnny Marseilles said:
Well of course, I disagree. Perhaps it suggests a presupposition on your part? ;)
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My presupposition is that I don't claim to know everything, you did, and that can't possibly be true, because youre a human.
The word pagan was used by the romans to describe anyone who worshipped the old Gods rather than the state gods, now where do you think Judaism fits into that, to deny that the origins of the Bible are pagan, is to claim that all Jews are really Christians, which isn't true. The further fact that large parts of Genesis are based on Mesopotamian texts which would also be regarded as pagan seems to have escaped you as well
;)


Johnny Marseilles said:
Maybe you and I lean slightly to either Higher and Lower criticism respectively. Higher criticism, of course, is primarily a pseudo scholarly attempt to undermine people's confidence in the Bible.
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I think you'll find then that its not required, very few people here have any confidence in the bible already
:D

Johnny Marseilles said:
Genesis was completed in 1513 B.C.E.
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do you actually believe that, if so, what language was it written in ?
:confused:
 
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I had a Zoroastrian bible for awhile til it got snatched. They are rare and hard to get ahold of I think. I had a copy. Seemed like a good religion.
 
It was all a big misunderstanding. God's attitude toward time is a bit careless, since it means nothing to Him. He told Jesus The End would come in the spring, but He failed to mention the year, or even the millenium. Jesus assumed the Big Guy meant the coming spring. So that's why Jesus was rushing around, trying to get crucified and resurrected in a timely manner, telling everyone "Behold, I come quickly. You people better sleep with your clothes on, because the time is at hand."

But it was all a big misunderstanding. In more ways than one. For starters, God did not say to Jesus, "You need to get crucified, Son. You are the sacrificial Lamb." What He said was "You need to get laid, Son. You're as jittery as a lamb at Passover."

The whole episode was a comedy of miscommunication. And it still hasn't been cleared up, two millenia later. Jesus told everyone He was the Lamb of God and got Himself crucified. So They pretty much had to go with that. They were hoping no one would notice the mistake on the the end of the world timing.

So now God is like, "Jesus Christ, Jesus. Can't you get anything straight? You were only supposed to preach fire and brimstone to them. You were supposed to tell them they have about as much chance of beating the system as a camel has of crawling through the eye of a needle. I intended for all of them to pay for their sins, but you had to go and offer yourself up as a sacrifice, and gave them an out. Now they can repent after sinning like the dirty little sinners they are, and get off the hook. You moron."

And Jesus is like, "You see? This is why we don't talk. You. Always with the negative vibes. It ain't no big thing. So we have to build some condos in heaven to house the repenters. There won't be that many of them, and you never did specify exactly how long "eternity" is. We can just stop the clocks after a while and tell them their time is up, eternity is over, they'll have to move out. And with the earth destroyed, the only available housing is in Hell. If they say anything about how short eternity was, we can say time flies when you're having fun in heaven. Eternity goes by just like that. Whoosh."

And then God glares at Jesus and says (on the inside) "Things would be so much better if that crafty Satan were The Son instead of the bumbling Jesus, with the nail scars in his hands and thorn scars on his forehead. What a maroon." And Jesus says, "I heard that. Your thoughts are loud, Daddy Dearest. And another thing, Dad. I've been studying Satan's rebellion. I know where he messed up. He could have had you, Dad."
 
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Toontown said:
It was all a big misunderstanding. God's attitude toward time is a bit careless, since it means nothing to Him. He told Jesus The End would come in the spring, but He failed to mention the year, or even the millenium. Jesus assumed the Big Guy meant the coming spring. So that's why Jesus was rushing around, trying to get crucified and resurrected in a timely manner, telling everyone "Behold, I come quickly. You people better sleep with your clothes on, because the time is at hand."

But it was all a big misunderstanding. In more ways than one. For starters, God did not say to Jesus, "You need to get crucified, Son. You are the sacrificial Lamb." What He said was "You need to get laid, Son. You're as jittery as a lamb at Passover."

The whole episode was a comedy of miscommunication. And it still hasn't been cleared up, two millenia later. Jesus told everyone He was the Lamb of God and got Himself crucified. So They pretty much had to go with that. They were hoping no one would notice the mistake on the the end of the world timing.

So now God is like, "Jesus Christ, Jesus. Can't you get anything straight? You were only supposed to preach fire and brimstone to them. You were supposed to tell them they have about as much chance of beating the system as a camel has of crawling through the eye of a needle. I intended for all of them to pay for their sins, but you had to go and offer yourself up as a sacrifice, and gave them an out. Now they can repent after sinning like the dirty little sinners they are, and get off the hook. You moron."

And Jesus is like, "You see? This is why we don't talk. You. Always with the negative vibes. It ain't no big thing. So we have to build some condos in heaven to house the repenters. There won't be that many of them, and you never did specify exactly how long "eternity" is. We can just stop the clocks after a while and tell them their time is up, eternity is over, they'll have to move out. And with the earth destroyed, the only available housing is in Hell. If they say anything about how short eternity was, we can say time flies when you're having fun in heaven. Eternity goes by just like that. Whoosh."

And then God glares at Jesus and says (on the inside) "Things would be so much better if that crafty Satan were The Son instead of the bumbling Jesus, with the nail scars in his hands and thorn scars on his forehead. What a maroon." And Jesus says, "I heard that. You keep forgetting, I'm omnipotent too. I can read minds too, Daddy Dearest. And another thing, Dad. I've been studying Satan's rebellion. I know where he messed up. He could have had you, Dad."
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Nope nice try though. Gods an alien, the primordial evil is as smart as hell. The co-creator is tough and cunning. The human creation is the smallest fraction.
 
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