UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[RoboTimbo]

There are absolutely bad ones and also good ones. Rramjet has shown as some of the good ones.

Like Delphos?

I think that Rramjet has shown really interesting cases (thanks for him for that)

Like Rogue River?

and I feel it has given a lot to think about.

Like Campeche?

 

[ufology]

I'm interested to see how people respond to the following question and how they justify their response:

Do you believe that extraterrestrials exist?

At the moment I have no reason to believe that UFO accounts don't fall into the same nonsensical and anecdotal accounts that ghosts, ghouls and bogeymen do. That being said, I'm always open to the possibility, because; A) I like the idea and B) I find it somewhat plausible that hypothetical alien race(s) older than ours may have just had more time to understand the universe, making them capable of creating ‘spaceships’ with which they are able to visit our pale blue dot of a planet.

Common criticisms that I've come across against alien visitation include; the idea that it would simply be 'impossible' for aliens to travel to our solar system, taking into account the unfathomable distance. And simply the lack of substantial evidence that should accompany numerous sightings and/or encounters.


I made 4 main categories that I think people will generally fall into in response to the question:

• I believe that extraterrestrials exist
• I believe that extraterrestrials exist, but only as non-sentient life forms (ie. cells)
• I believe that extraterrestrials exist and visit earth
  
• I do not believe extraterrestrials exist

Which category do you fit in?

I'm not sure if there is really a category for this answer. I believe Earth has been visited by objects of alien origin. Therefore, unless these objects are alien life forms in and of themselves, aliens must either exist or have existed at some time in the past to create these objects. Whether or not they are actually here now is another matter. I believe this because I saw a UFO that had performance charateristics beyond any Earth technology then or now. So I have firsthand experience.

I also find it reasonable to believe based on the sheer number of experiences by other people that I am not the only person on Earth that has seen a UFO ( alien craft ). It would be very arrogant and irresponsible of me to simply dismiss all other reports that lack material empirical evidence and claim I'm the only one ( well actually three of us saw it ).

I realize none of this constitutes scientific proof, but any reasonable person can tell there is a genuine mystery going on. If you only ever get one UFO book to review as background information on ufology, check out Timothy Good's Beyond Top Secret.

j.r.

 

[gambling_cruiser]

I'm not sure if there is really a category for this answer. I believe Earth has been visited by objects of alien origin. Therefore, unless these objects are alien life forms in and of themselves, aliens must either exist or have existed at some time in the past to create these objects. Whether or not they are actually here now is another matter. I believe this because I saw a UFO that had performance charateristics beyond any Earth technology then or now. So I have firsthand experience.

I also find it reasonable to believe based on the sheer number of experiences by other people that I am not the only person on Earth that has seen a UFO ( alien craft ). It would be very arrogant and irresponsible of me to simply dismiss all other reports that lack material empirical evidence and claim I'm the only one ( well actually three of us saw it ).

I realize none of this constitutes scientific proof, but any reasonable person can tell there is a genuine mystery going on. If you only ever get one UFO book to review as background information on ufology, check out Timothy Good's Beyond Top Secret.

j.r.

Hey j.r. are you getting desperate at conning new members into your religion? Or is suggesting to read a fact-free book only a practical joke?

 

[ufology]

Hey j.r. are you getting desperate at conning new members into your religion? Or is suggesting to read a fact-free book only a practical joke?

Read it and decide for yourself.

 

[tomi71]

Like Delphos?


Like Rogue River?


Like Campeche?

Yes. And many more

 

[GeeMack]

I'm not sure if there is really a category for this answer. I believe Earth has been visited by objects of alien origin. Therefore, unless these objects are alien life forms in and of themselves, aliens must either exist or have existed at some time in the past to create these objects.

Affirming the consequent. Argument failed.

Whether or not they are actually here now is another matter. I believe this because I saw a UFO that had performance charateristics beyond any Earth technology then or now. So I have firsthand experience.

Argument from ignorance. Failed again.

I also find it reasonable to believe based on the sheer number of experiences by other people that I am not the only person on Earth that has seen a UFO ( alien craft ). It would be very arrogant and irresponsible of me to simply dismiss all other reports that lack material empirical evidence and claim I'm the only one ( well actually three of us saw it ).

I realize none of this constitutes scientific proof, but any reasonable person can tell there is a genuine mystery going on. If you only ever get one UFO book to review as background information on ufology, check out Timothy Good's Beyond Top Secret.

Argument from incredulity. Complete fail.

 

[wollery]

Yes. And many more

You may want to have another look at what happened in the discussions of those case in this thread.

 

[tomi71]

You may want to have another look at what happened in the discussions of those case in this thread.

As far as I can remember I think that most of not all of the cases remained a mystery and they didn´t get an answer of what the phenomena was. At least there wasn´t any satisfactory outcome not mundane or something we recognize. This opens the door to speculate and try to solve it by comparing these kind of phenomena into another same kind of phenomena and try to figure it out. Certainly there has not been proof of aliens but I think science has shown that some phenomena is not solved by science yet since we must be very careful when or if taking the step of ETH. It´s fun to speculate though but in many cases it´s also wishful thinking. I myself want to keep the door open even to extraterrestrial explanation as some of the evidence (not proof) seems to indicate it. I wouldn´t still make a 100% claim yet. Anyway: UFO phenomena is interesting and should be taken seriously be they aliens or electrical phenomena in atmosphere or stories that have blown out of proportions etc. etc. Scepticism should be a tool in investigation and still have an open mind to reality we may not be aware yet.

 

[Astrophotographer]

Scepticism should be a tool in investigation and still have an open mind to reality we may not be aware yet.

So why don't you keep an open mind to the possibility there are errors in the data from these observations, which does happen (i.e. it is real that human beings make mistakes in observation and perception)? Isn't that more likely than "other realities we are not aware of"? It sounds like you are an advocate of "wishful thinking".

 

[tomi71]

So why don't you keep an open mind to the possibility there are errors in the data from these observations, which does happen (i.e. it is real that human beings make mistakes in observation and perception)? Isn't that more likely than "other realities we are not aware of"? It sounds like you are an advocate of "wishful thinking".

I am sure that there are errors in observation. Each case must be considered both individually and also comparatively against other cases. Without scepticism and scientific way of seeing things UFO phenomena rises into a religion very soon and I am sure that even the most pro-ETH-people wouldn´t want that in order to preserve some credibility.

Even though there are probably errors in observations I wonder about the cases where there has been other evidence to support those observations like radar observations and multiple witness-cases.

Of course they could be also secret military projects even though I doubt it when cases are older like 50´s or 60´s when the aviation technology wasn´t so great than today.

And yes I admit something: I want to be a bit of a wishful thinker because it makes the whole subject more interesting even though I want to emphasize that sceptical point of view is necessary when investigating things that are of unknown nature (at least so far).

Scepticism and science are our only tools to investigate. Not negativism of course which is a different story all together.

I once thought (about 20 years ago) that I am not going to read anything anymore about UFOs, but then something happened which kind of opened my eyes to reality. I saw a white ball flying in the sky at size of a full moon and it had sharp edges and fly so rapidly that it took like two blinks of an eye to fly from other edge of view from the window to the right side. I don´t think that it was a space craft but it opened my eyes that we can see in the sky so strange things that are hard to explain. And I didn´t see it alone which was a relief for me, since it meant that I haven´t gone crazy or something.

It probably was a natural phenomena but the sharpness of the edges of that white "moon" plus the fact of no craters etc. made it look strange. I still don´t know what kind of a meteorite or fireball could be so perfect circle and so full moon like.

If you imagine a full moon without craters (darker areas) you know what it looked like. It was glowing and flying so fast without sound that I can´t explain it away. In a sense it was a UFO.

 

[Akhenaten]

It probably was a natural phenomena but the sharpness of the edges of that white "moon" plus the fact of no craters etc. made it look strange. I still don´t know what kind of a meteorite or fireball could be so perfect circle and so full moon like.

If you imagine a full moon without craters (darker areas) you know what it looked like. It was glowing and flying so fast without sound that I can´t explain it away. In a sense it was a UFO.

Could you make out any letters on the side of it? A 'G' perhaps, or maybe an 'R'?

 

[tomi71]

Could you make out any letters on the side of it? A 'G' perhaps, or maybe an 'R'?

I am sorry, but I don´t know what you want? I can only say that it flew kind of a low (maybe something like a 15 floors building) and the sky was very dark. I watched the clock right after that and I remember still that the time was 01.26 but I can´t remember the date but It was 1992 and november and in Finland. The object flew over Turku from east to west. We contacted the local UFO-society by phone because we were sure that many other people must have seen it too but so far I´ve never heard of anybody telling about it.

I think that it was a unidentified flying object for me and for her (my spouse at that time) but certainly no proof of aliens

Just the fact to know that something I can´t explain away is there makes reality and world interesting and thus my interest into a phenomenas of paranormal or just phenomes of "we-don´t-know" kept me going to still read about these things.

That´s why I came to this great site.

 

[John Albert]

I believe Earth has been visited by objects of alien origin.

It's a well-known fact that extraterrestrial objects (of "alien" origin) fall to Earth with great regularity. At least one of them has even been identified as an igneous rock from Mars!

But despite a lot of empty claims and wishful thinking to the contrary, no conclusive evidence of life has ever been detected within a meteorite.

And absolutely no evidence of extraterrestrial life or ET spacecraft have ever been discovered either, despite many eyewitness reports of UFO crashes, close encounters, alien abductions, alien autopsy, cattle mutilations, ET-generated crop circles, etc., etc...

Therefore, unless these objects are alien life forms in and of themselves, aliens must either exist or have existed at some time in the past to create these objects.

Well there's a big jump to conclusion. Just because something is extraterrestrial doesn't mean it has anything to do with extraterrestrial life, let alone life intelligent enough to have mastered interstellar travel.

Whether or not they are actually here now is another matter. I believe this because I saw a UFO that had performance charateristics beyond any Earth technology then or now. So I have firsthand experience.

Argument from self-knowing. You might be mistaken. How do you know it was even an actual craft? How can you be sure this wasn't just a misperception of some sort?

Remember:

Truth and reality are two seaparate issues. Therefore truth itself doesn't correspond to objective reality or any other reality.

How do we know this isn't just one of your "alternate realities" (a.k.a. " imagination") at work?

I also find it reasonable to believe based on the sheer number of experiences by other people that I am not the only person on Earth that has seen a UFO ( alien craft ).

Argument from popularity. Just because a lot of people have claimed something, that doesn't make it true.

I realize none of this constitutes scientific proof, but any reasonable person can tell there is a genuine mystery going on.

This is an argument from incredulity. It's only a mystery because you choose to ignore all but the most arcane explanations.

 

[tsig]

Heh, you got me! I think that we must value stories, since if there are a LOT of stories about same issue - we must investigate it.

Do you think they haven't been investigated?

 

[ufology]

It's a well-known fact that extraterrestrial objects (of "alien" origin) fall to Earth with great regularity. At least one of them has even been identified as an igneous rock from Mars!

But despite a lot of empty claims and wishful thinking to the contrary, no conclusive evidence of life has ever been detected within a meteorite.

And absolutely no evidence of extraterrestrial life or ET spacecraft have ever been discovered either, despite many eyewitness reports of UFO crashes, close encounters, alien abductions, alien autopsy, cattle mutilations, ET-generated crop circles, etc., etc...

What you really mean to say here is that there is no objective empirical scientific evidence that the public is aware of. So What? I'm not disputing that.

Well there's a big jump to conclusion. Just because something is extraterrestrial doesn't mean it has anything to do with extraterrestrial life, let alone life intelligent enough to have mastered interstellar travel.

Yes I would agree that what you say is logical. But you haven't seen one of these things have you ... obviously? I did my logical checks and cross checks against every known natural or manmade phenomena that could have come close to explaining it and concluded that it isn't reasonable to come to any other explanation based on the observation.

Argument from self-knowing. You might be mistaken. How do you know it was even an actual craft? How can you be sure this wasn't just a misperception of some sort?

Remember: How do we know this isn't just one of your "alternate realities" (a.k.a. " imagination") at work?

How could I be so sure? I am as sure as you are sure that you are reading this now, confirmed by two other people at the same time, followed by repeated observation.

Argument from popularity. Just because a lot of people have claimed something, that doesn't make it true.

That is logical, but it's out of context with the usage. The point was that since I saw one, it would be logical to suggest that maybe others have seen one too, and many say they have. Not that as you say this proves anything. It's purely circumstantial.

This is an argument from incredulity. It's only a mystery because you choose to ignore all but the most arcane explanations.

Actually that last part makes no sense. Arcane explanations are hard to explain and take special or secret knowledge to understand. For example the exotic psychological processes leading to the unproven reality of group hallucinations is far more complex than understanding the concept of alien visitation ... they built a ship and came here ... it's simple ... really simple ... Occam's Razor simple.

j.r.

 

[Akhenaten]

Well there's a big jump to conclusion. Just because something is extraterrestrial doesn't mean it has anything to do with extraterrestrial life, let alone life intelligent enough to have mastered interstellar travel.

Yes I would agree that what you say is logical. But you haven't seen one of these things have you ... obviously?

What does "one of these things" mean exactly? An ET craft of some kind? According to all of the available evidence, neither have you.

I did my logical checks and cross checks against every known natural or manmade phenomena that could have come close to explaining it and concluded that it isn't reasonable to come to any other explanation based on the observation.

Drivel. You have no way of eliminating all of the known natural or manmade explanations. You might be able to eliminate the ones that are known to you, but that just reduces all of your assertions to one big argument from incredulity.

I have little doubt that you understand this, especially since it's been explained to you repeatedly, so I must conclude that you're just being disingenuous about it.

 

[GeeMack]

What you really mean to say here is that there is no objective empirical scientific evidence that the public is aware of. So What? I'm not disputing that.

It's almost like you're hinting at a conspiracy to hide information from "the public". That would be, of course, a pretty desperate way to frame an argument. Fail.

Yes I would agree that what you say is logical. But you haven't seen one of these things have you ... obviously? I did my logical checks and cross checks against every known natural or manmade phenomena that could have come close to explaining it and concluded that it isn't reasonable to come to any other explanation based on the observation.

Argument from incredulity and ignorance. Fail.

How could I be so sure? I am as sure as you are sure that you are reading this now, confirmed by two other people at the same time, followed by repeated observation.

Completely ludicrous argument. Common magicians' tricks, hallucinations caused by various environmental toxins, and just plain lying could all easily explain your otherwise unsupported assertion. Fail.

That is logical, but it's out of context with the usage. The point was that since I saw one, it would be logical to suggest that maybe others have seen one too, and many say they have. Not that as you say this proves anything. It's purely circumstantial.

Affirming the consequent again. A dishonest logical fallacy, but certainly not unexpected. Fail.

Actually that last part makes no sense. Arcane explanations are hard to explain and take special or secret knowledge to understand. For example the exotic psychological processes leading to the unproven reality of group hallucinations is far more complex than understanding the concept of alien visitation ... they built a ship and came here ... it's simple ... really simple ... Occam's Razor simple.

Total distortion of Occam's Razor for the obvious purpose of dishonestly supporting an otherwise unsupportable conjecture. Fail.

Score: -5/5

 

[ufology]

What does "one of these things" mean exactly? An ET craft of some kind? According to all of the available evidence, neither have you.

Yup ... and like I said, obviously you've never seen one or you wouldn't be so flippant.

j.r.

 

[Brainache]

Yup ... and like I said, obviously you've never seen one or you wouldn't be so flippant.

j.r.

I would like to know what it would take for you to change your mind on the whole "UFOs are aliens" idea.

For my part, hard physical evidence rigorously and skeptically examined which turned out to be ET technology might convince me to change my mind on this question.

What would you need?

 

[Akhenaten]

What does "one of these things" mean exactly? An ET craft of some kind? According to all of the available evidence, neither have you.

Yup ... and like I said, obviously you've never seen one or you wouldn't be so flippant.

j.r.

Once again, according to the available evidence, nobody has seen an alien craft, so pointing out that I haven't seen one isn't much of an explanation for anything.

And flippance doesn't really do justice to the disdain I feel for the baseless assertions of people who insist that others take their flying saucer claims seriously.


Anyway, you appear to have overlooked the rest of my post.

You may as well address it now, because I'll just keep bringing it up until you do.

Drivel. You have no way of eliminating all of the known natural or manmade explanations. You might be able to eliminate the ones that are known to you, but that just reduces all of your assertions to one big argument from incredulity.

I have little doubt that you understand this, especially since it's been explained to you repeatedly, so I must conclude that you're just being disingenuous about it.