Gaydar: real or woo?

[Alan]

I think this discussion leads to the larger issue of defining what is gay and what isn't. Many (maybe most) boys have some homosexual experience or urge, but you wouldn't really call them "gay". There are also adults who lead mostly straight lives but have occasional homosexual experiences, sometimes with the consent and participation of their spouse, sometimes not. Do you call them "gay"? What then, is bisexuality? Does that even exist?

[...]

Somebody is homosexual if they exclusively have same-sex attractions.
Somebody is bisexual if they have multiple-sex attractions.

There is homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual behaviour but these are not a basis for labelling a person with the corresponding label.

And yes, the sexological research on the subject makes it clear that bisexuality exists.

 

[Nursedan]

Somebody is homosexual if they exclusively have same-sex attractions.
Somebody is bisexual if they have multiple-sex attractions.

There is homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual behaviour but these are not a basis for labelling a person with the corresponding label.

And yes, the sexological research on the subject makes it clear that bisexuality exists.

Thanks for your response - my questions were more rhetorical than anything.

*begin stream of conciousness with no real point* - My high school principal was caught near a lake in my hometown engaging in homosexual activity - this man is married with children - so it gets me thinking about choice - if a male leads a heterosexual life and is genuinely attracted to females and gets married, then one day decides to act on his homosexual urges, wouldn't we say that that person is gay? Larry Craig is another man that comes to mind. I generally believe that homosexuality is not a choice (I think most people here would agree) so it makes me wonder about the nature of homosexuality. I guess he would say that he could only repress his homosexual urges for so long and he felt he could safely act on them so he did (he was wrong about the "safe" thing). Incidentally, growing up my we all assumed he was gay, due to his mannerisms and way of speaking...gaydar indeed... *end stream of conciousness with no real point*

So in terms of the OP do you think that "gaydar" exists?

 

[epepke]

Yeah, it exists, and it isn't woo. It doesn't have much to do with lisps or flamboyance or masculinity or anything like that. As far as I can tell, it has to do with subtle, involuntary movements of the muscles around the eyes when looking at someone of the same or opposite sex. It's difficult to quantify, and it doesn't work always, but it does give an edge.

A proper study on it, I think, would have to involve people interacting directly in person.

 

[Complexity]

I've always guessed it was an affectation amongst some gay men, and is a signal.

Any gay men here want to comment on this phenomenon, and their opinion of The Bird Cage? (Watching Nathan Lane do gay-guy-tries-to-act-straight-but-keeps-forgetting physical comedy was hilarious)

You should watch the original version in French, La Cage aux Folles. I like it much better than the English remake, and the scene with the gay man being taught to walk and butter toast like a straight man is one of my favorites.

I do like the later version as well, but really like the original.

 

[Complexity]

I think this discussion leads to the larger issue of defining what is gay and what isn't. Many (maybe most) boys have some homosexual experience or urge, but you wouldn't really call them "gay". There are also adults who lead mostly straight lives but have occasional homosexual experiences, sometimes with the consent and participation of their spouse, sometimes not. Do you call them "gay"? What then, is bisexuality? Does that even exist?

There's a scene in Pumping Iron where Arnold Schwarzeneggar is at a prison basically showing off his muscles to the prisoners. I doubt these men would say they are homosexual, even the one that says Arnold has a "beautiful body".

Gaydar for me isn't really reliable because I know gay people who you would never suspect are so, and I know flaming homosexuals whom you would have no doubt. I think Gaydar would only be real if there were definite criterion for calssifying who is gay and who isn't.

I'd recast the discussion of gaydar to one's being aware of which guys are sexually aware of other guys to which guys are sexually interested in another guy, not trying to pigeonhole guys into sexual categories.

This flavor of gaydar definitely exists, and some people are much better at it that others.

I think most guys have some sexual activity with another guy at some point in their life - often when they are young.

A lot of guys with girlfriends or wifes are perfectly happy to hook up with a guy for a bit of anonymous pleasure.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Gaydar is almost as reliable as ESP. We have relatives and friends that are lesbians and male homosexuals. I was the first faculty advisor that our college's Gay and Lesbian organization had after a student in one of my classes pled for one in the student newspaper. If you think you can tell, you are wrong, unless they tell you.
Like these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVt1EY896cY

 

[arthwollipot]

Two words, Kittens: Greg. Proops. And he makes no case for it.

I would go gay for the Proopster.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Unless it's a woman saying something about it, I get the feeling "Gaydar" is unreliable and woo.

 

[Darat]

From what I understand, there is no correlation between being effeminate and being gay, so I'm not sure how such a thing would work.

Sorry you've lost me, I haven't mentioned effeminate?

 

[Alan]

Thanks for your response - my questions were more rhetorical than anything.

*begin stream of conciousness with no real point* - My high school principal was caught near a lake in my hometown engaging in homosexual activity - this man is married with children - so it gets me thinking about choice - if a male leads a heterosexual life and is genuinely attracted to females and gets married, then one day decides to act on his homosexual urges, wouldn't we say that that person is gay? Larry Craig is another man that comes to mind. I generally believe that homosexuality is not a choice (I think most people here would agree) so it makes me wonder about the nature of homosexuality. I guess he would say that he could only repress his homosexual urges for so long and he felt he could safely act on them so he did (he was wrong about the "safe" thing). Incidentally, growing up my we all assumed he was gay, due to his mannerisms and way of speaking...gaydar indeed... *end stream of conciousness with no real point*

So in terms of the OP do you think that "gaydar" exists?

Anything that fits the description of a 'gaydar' is highly unreliable and succeptible to confirmation biases and can be difficult to falsify some claims.

For all the times my gaydar is right, there are times it's probably not. Leading to some disappointment, sometimes.

 

[Nursedan]

Anything that fits the description of a 'gaydar' is highly unreliable and succeptible to confirmation biases and can be difficult to falsify some claims.

For all the times my gaydar is right, there are times it's probably not. Leading to some disappointment, sometimes.

Really? That's funny because I've never been wrong! There was one time that I assumed someone was straight and was surprised to find out they weren't.

 

[DC]

Really? That's funny because I've never been wrong! There was one time that I assumed someone was straight and was surprised to find out they weren't.

how would you know?

 

[sadhatter]

Two words, Kittens: Greg. Proops. And he makes no case for it.

ETA: depending on what _you_ would deem a gay trait of course, since the question was whether you, personally, would be stunned. But since the issue discussed at the time of that post was camp, I will assume this is what you mean.

If you have your own scheme for guessing my sexuality based on how I choose to remove the plastic wrapping from a drinking straw I can't help you, since I don't know what the gayandorstraight man in your head is doing.

I have never got even a gay whiff from Proops, love the man to death, and even at his advanced age, find him a 7/10 ( he is coming to my city , where all cool celebrities go when they die, soon.) , but never got anything other than " straight" from him, i wouldn't even try to convince myself he is playing on my team.

 

[sadhatter]

Somebody is homosexual if they exclusively have same-sex attractions.
Somebody is bisexual if they have multiple-sex attractions.

There is homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual behaviour but these are not a basis for labelling a person with the corresponding label.

And yes, the sexological research on the subject makes it clear that bisexuality exists.

I love the "bisexuality doesn't exist" crowd, i really do.

Because much like " They all look the same" i see it as a binding force , a-holes gay and straight can band together to tell me i really don't like both vaginas and penises. They can have a beer afterward and talk about how confused i am, sure i find it annoying, but as a force? It binds the gay and straight communities.

But i can see why it exists, being legitimately bisexual, ( To give a definition, legitimately wanting to have romantic and sexual relationships with members of both sexes.) especially for a male, is quite uncommon. A good portion of the time it is someone " Softening the blow" to their friends and family about being gay, or on the opposite side of the coin, a straight man trying to seem extra liberal.

Being bisexual is like being the gays of the gays. Not only do you get to deal with all the B.S. the gay folks do, but you get to deal with B.S. from the gay folks as well. As well as a whole slew of unique issues to bisexuality.

Which is where this gets more to the op, people and their ******* gaydar. Never, once have i had someone "get it", the women assume gay, the men assume straight, all because of this reliance on that stupid mental dowsing rod known as gaydar. I have had to just roll with it and use it to my own benefit, otherwise i think i would go insane.

 

[Nursedan]

how would you know?

Every time I've made an assumption about a person's homosexuality I have been correct. I'm talking about people who I've eventually been introduced to, not just people on the street - then, I wouldn't know for sure.

 

[DC]

Every time I've made an assumption about a person's homosexuality I have been correct. I'm talking about people who I've eventually been introduced to, not just people on the street - then, I wouldn't know for sure.

and how many closet homosexuals have you catched with the gaydar?

 

[Dr. Keith]

I love the "bisexuality doesn't exist" crowd, i really do.

Because much like " They all look the same" i see it as a binding force , a-holes gay and straight can band together to tell me i really don't like both vaginas and penises. They can have a beer afterward and talk about how confused i am, sure i find it annoying, but as a force? It binds the gay and straight communities.

But i can see why it exists, being legitimately bisexual, ( To give a definition, legitimately wanting to have romantic and sexual relationships with members of both sexes.) especially for a male, is quite uncommon. A good portion of the time it is someone " Softening the blow" to their friends and family about being gay, or on the opposite side of the coin, a straight man trying to seem extra liberal.

Being bisexual is like being the gays of the gays. Not only do you get to deal with all the B.S. the gay folks do, but you get to deal with B.S. from the gay folks as well. As well as a whole slew of unique issues to bisexuality.

Which is where this gets more to the op, people and their ******* gaydar. Never, once have i had someone "get it", the women assume gay, the men assume straight, all because of this reliance on that stupid mental dowsing rod known as gaydar. I have had to just roll with it and use it to my own benefit, otherwise i think i would go insane.

I had never thought of that.

People of all types can suck, so I shouldn't be surprised . . .

 

[Nursedan]

and how many closet homosexuals have you catched with the gaydar?

I've never 'catched' anyone. Are you trying to ask me a question regarding the validity of my earlier claim?

 

[Nursedan]

I love the "bisexuality doesn't exist" crowd, i really do.

Because much like " They all look the same" i see it as a binding force , a-holes gay and straight can band together to tell me i really don't like both vaginas and penises. They can have a beer afterward and talk about how confused i am, sure i find it annoying, but as a force? It binds the gay and straight communities.

But i can see why it exists, being legitimately bisexual, ( To give a definition, legitimately wanting to have romantic and sexual relationships with members of both sexes.) especially for a male, is quite uncommon. A good portion of the time it is someone " Softening the blow" to their friends and family about being gay, or on the opposite side of the coin, a straight man trying to seem extra liberal.

Being bisexual is like being the gays of the gays. Not only do you get to deal with all the B.S. the gay folks do, but you get to deal with B.S. from the gay folks as well. As well as a whole slew of unique issues to bisexuality.

Which is where this gets more to the op, people and their ******* gaydar. Never, once have i had someone "get it", the women assume gay, the men assume straight, all because of this reliance on that stupid mental dowsing rod known as gaydar. I have had to just roll with it and use it to my own benefit, otherwise i think i would go insane.

Your post is very eye opening coming from a bisexual person, especially the bolded. I hope you don't think I was questioning whether it exists earlier; like I said I was asking rhetorically.

 

[DC]

I've never 'catched' anyone. Are you trying to ask me a question regarding the validity of my earlier claim?

no, i actually wonder how you would know if someone is a closet homosexual, and never admited his homosexuality to you, and your gaydar showed him as straight. and so many other questions i have about it, but lets stick with the closet homosexuals.