Gaydar: real or woo?

Caper said:
I was more wondering if I would ever come across the opposite..... where I was stunned someone was straight.
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Two words, Kittens: Greg. Proops. And he makes no case for it.

ETA: depending on what _you_ would deem a gay trait of course, since the question was whether you, personally, would be stunned. But since the issue discussed at the time of that post was camp, I will assume this is what you mean.

If you have your own scheme for guessing my sexuality based on how I choose to remove the plastic wrapping from a drinking straw I can't help you, since I don't know what the gayandorstraight man in your head is doing.
 
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When people like this lady act, behave, and look like a lunatic, I conclude she is bat **** crazy. When a man like this behaves in a way that appears to be emulating Liberace, and runs a "God can cure your Gayness" clinic, I feel safe in my assumption that he has played for both teams.

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eta: unless he is like that dude in The Green Mile, and he sucks all their gayness into himself.
 
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Caper said:
I think you're taking it a bit too seriously. There are guys where I was stunned to learn they were gay. I don't think anyone would have been able to tell. I don't think there is a a gaydar for that.

I was more wondering if I would ever come across the opposite..... where I was stunned someone was straight.
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How about Rick Steves, the travel show guy? One episode he had his family traveling with him, and I was like, 'Dude has a family?'.

His company is called 'Europe Through the Back Door'. C'mon!
 
It seems like some people interpret odd mannerisms as markers of homosexuality. I usually file those things as being odd without giving a lot of thought to the possibility that they might indicate non-heterosexuality. But this is because it doesn't matter to me (unless I'm contemplating "making a move") and I'm not performing for radio/television.

I saw the Jon Stewart bit mentioned above and I don't know if he and his staff actually think that Mr. Bachmann is gay. I think the bottom line for them is that they don't like him (understandably; he and his wife are religious nutjobs) and they found what they felt was an effective way to mock him. Whether it turns out that they were ridiculing a closeted, homophobic homosexual or an intolerant, heterosexual jerk, they win either way as long as it made people laugh. They certainly accomplished their goal with me. :)
 
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This subject has always interested me. I've known a lot of homosexuals in my life and enjoy their company.

I've always wondered about what can be considered stereotypical gay behavior and what it meant. Though it's often used as a cruel stereotype there's no denying the fact that a huge number of gay males have a lisp. Now why would that be? How can a person's sexuality affect their speech patterns? In my head I always felt it was evolutions way of making sure that homosexuals (males in this case) could find a partner. Though you'd have to wonder why evolution would want to aid in non-reproduction.


Caper said:
I've seen very manly looking & acting gay guys. The British rugby player comes to mind. But I never known an ultra effeminate guy and known them not to have been gay. I want to cite Richard Simmons as an example.... but I can't confirm that he is gay.............. but there is no way you can act that gay and not be gay right?
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I can provide anecdotal evidence of such an example. I was at a wedding for some theater friends of mine and I was introduced to a married couple that, well they really have to be seen to be believed.

The man had every single homosexual trait, if you were to put a list together he'd have to mark every box. The man screamed gay the minute you spoke to him. The woman also seemed to be quite the lesbian, though there's seemingly less stereotypical traits associated with lesbianism.

But the two had been married for decades and certainly weren't each others beards. They worked in a theater environment and had no reason to be concerned about coming out. They weren't trying to hide anything. They knew how things looked to people and they freely joked about it. But they were very much in love with each other. The "gayest" man and woman you'd ever meet.

Love's a funny thing...
 
PGH said:
I can provide anecdotal evidence of such an example. I was at a wedding for some theater friends of mine and I was introduced to a married couple that, well they really have to be seen to be believed.

The man had every single homosexual trait, if you were to put a list together he'd have to mark every box. The man screamed gay the minute you spoke to him. The woman also seemed to be quite the lesbian, though there's seemingly less stereotypical traits associated with lesbianism.

But the two had been married for decades and certainly weren't each others beards. They worked in a theater environment and had no reason to be concerned about coming out. They weren't trying to hide anything. They knew how things looked to people and they freely joked about it. But they were very much in love with each other. The "gayest" man and woman you'd ever meet.

Love's a funny thing...
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If the Bachmanns would just "come out" and admit that Marcus looks, and acts, just like a "Silver Daddy", perhaps they could appear on SNL and have a few laughs. As it looks now, SNL has probably already written a few scripts for the new season, and looking at who will play Marcus.

Here's Second City's take;




eta; Daniel Tosh, of Tosh.O, has made a career of dancing on this line.
 
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Caper said:
I've seen very manly looking & acting gay guys. The British rugby player comes to mind. But I never known an ultra effeminate guy and known them not to have been gay. I want to cite Richard Simmons as an example.... but I can't confirm that he is gay.............. but there is no way you can act that gay and not be gay right?
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Nonsense.

A great many masculine straight-acting men are gay, and a great many effeminate men are straight.
 
I think this discussion leads to the larger issue of defining what is gay and what isn't. Many (maybe most) boys have some homosexual experience or urge, but you wouldn't really call them "gay". There are also adults who lead mostly straight lives but have occasional homosexual experiences, sometimes with the consent and participation of their spouse, sometimes not. Do you call them "gay"? What then, is bisexuality? Does that even exist?

There's a scene in Pumping Iron where Arnold Schwarzeneggar is at a prison basically showing off his muscles to the prisoners. I doubt these men would say they are homosexual, even the one that says Arnold has a "beautiful body".

Gaydar for me isn't really reliable because I know gay people who you would never suspect are so, and I know flaming homosexuals whom you would have no doubt. I think Gaydar would only be real if there were definite criterion for calssifying who is gay and who isn't.
 
I was going to make a joke involving a link to Dana Carvey's "Lyle the Effeminate Heterosexual" bit from SNL, but apparently can't post links until I have 15 or more posts.
 
outis said:
I was going to make a joke involving a link to Dana Carvey's "Lyle the Effeminate Heterosexual" bit from SNL, but apparently can't post links until I have 15 or more posts.
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Wow haven't thought about that in years. Nice reference. Very apropos.
 
PGH said:
This subject has always interested me. I've known a lot of homosexuals in my life and enjoy their company.

I've always wondered about what can be considered stereotypical gay behavior and what it meant. Though it's often used as a cruel stereotype there's no denying the fact that a huge number of gay males have a lisp. Now why would that be? How can a person's sexuality affect their speech patterns? In my head I always felt it was evolutions way of making sure that homosexuals (males in this case) could find a partner. Though you'd have to wonder why evolution would want to aid in non-reproduction.




I can provide anecdotal evidence of such an example. I was at a wedding for some theater friends of mine and I was introduced to a married couple that, well they really have to be seen to be believed.

The man had every single homosexual trait, if you were to put a list together he'd have to mark every box. The man screamed gay the minute you spoke to him. The woman also seemed to be quite the lesbian, though there's seemingly less stereotypical traits associated with lesbianism.

But the two had been married for decades and certainly weren't each others beards. They worked in a theater environment and had no reason to be concerned about coming out. They weren't trying to hide anything. They knew how things looked to people and they freely joked about it. But they were very much in love with each other. The "gayest" man and woman you'd ever meet.

Love's a funny thing...
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I've always guessed it was an affectation amongst some gay men, and is a signal.

Any gay men here want to comment on this phenomenon, and their opinion of The Bird Cage? (Watching Nathan Lane do gay-guy-tries-to-act-straight-but-keeps-forgetting physical comedy was hilarious) :D
 
outis said:
I was going to make a joke involving a link to Dana Carvey's "Lyle the Effeminate Heterosexual" bit from SNL, but apparently can't post links until I have 15 or more posts.
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What? That's Insane!



the quality sucks, but I think that's why it's allowed on youtube
 
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You know, I really wish Gaydar was real. Seriously, it would have made my college life much more enjoyable. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to figure out if someone is homosexual or not when you're all visual arts majors?!
 
PGH said:
Though it's often used as a cruel stereotype there's no denying the fact that a huge number of gay males have a lisp. Now why would that be? How can a person's sexuality affect their speech patterns? In my head I always felt it was evolutions way of making sure that homosexuals (males in this case) could find a partner. Though you'd have to wonder why evolution would want to aid in non-reproduction.
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Genetic evolution isn't the only evolution. There is also memetic evolution. I think the simplest explanation is that speech patterns largely aren't genetically determined, but rather learnt behaviours; and the "gay lisp" is just an accent common in a certain subculture. My hypothesis: it developed because people working backstage in theatres tend to whisper, and this constant whispering influenced the way they spoke in everyday life. The "gay lisp" seems to me a louder and more expressive form of whispering.

It may be that Marcus Bachmann's encounters so many lisping gays in his work that he picked up some of their speech patterns. Or the stereotypical "Christian softspokenness" just sounds fairly similar. Or he just tries to sound as "gay" as he can.
 
Darat said:
Absolutely - now if they had evidence that he is gay whilst he (presumably) claims he isn't and he also "..counsels homosexuals.." then I think an argument can be made to support "outing" him but otherwise it is nothing but bullying.

To the question of your opening post, I do think there is something in "gaydar" but only in the sense that we can all read each other's body language and so on to a certain degree.
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From what I understand, there is no correlation between being effeminate and being gay, so I'm not sure how such a thing would work.
 
I had a good friend growing up who I assumed was gay. When my wife met him she assumed he was gay and wondered why he was hitting on me. I assured her that we were just friends and that he would find someone eventually. Then he got married to a woman. And now they have several kids and have been married for years. He is as happy as can be.

Flip side, I worked for a guy for months before someone told me he was gay. Apparently, it was well known, except to me. I almost joked about his wife once, because it was obvious he was in a committed relationship, glad I didn't.

What's my point? If there is Gaydar I don't have it. Nope. Not at all.
 
Weak Kitten said:
You know, I really wish Gaydar was real. Seriously, it would have made my college life much more enjoyable. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to figure out if someone is homosexual or not when you're all visual arts majors?!
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I've read this post three times, and I still have no idea if you have a penis. I even read it with a lispy voice, and in the voice of my GF, I have no clue.

You win one, "It's Pat", SNL award!
 
Foolmewunz said:
I find that most gays have a very good sense of Gaydar, particularly - as mentioned already - uncloseted gays who spent years passing.
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It'd be an interesting study to carry out, but this follows my own experience pretty closely. Since straight is assumed to be the default, many don't even consider that a given person might be gay unless something raises the question. Gay people, or people with close gay friends or siblings are less likely to assume everyone must be straight, and thus have correspondingly better gaydar.

And then there's the factor of wishful thinking--in some gay people it leads to false positives, in others it leads to false negatives because they suspect they might be indulging in wishful thinking, and thus disregard their own initial assessment.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
I was also extremely disappointed in Jon and many others for taking this tactic (I already loathe and expect this of Savage). If this was anyone else, we would be shouting homophobia.
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I just watched The Daily Show global edition on UK channel 4's catch-up service. I wondered about it myself - but if you want to mock a man who thinks you can "pray away the gay", having us laugh at his camp mannerisms seems fair. Jon wasn't mocking homosexuals or, indeed, offering evidence of explicit gay 'tells'. He was making comedy. I laughed - not that my opinion counts for much in the Bachmann camp, but hopefully a lot of Americans laughed at Bachmann too.
 
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